So... looking at the big picture... what do you think???!!!

Colleges & Universities Yale University
1

<p>I’m a Yale EA reject, and what I’m about to bring up is seriously not because of that. This has been on my mind for months now. Before I say it, please don’t take offense if you were deferred or accepted.</p>

<p>We all know that many great figures in American history were Ivy Leaguers: Teddy Roosevelt, Charles Ives (composer - Yale), Woodrow Wilson, etc., etc., etc. Back then, it was much easier to get in. You basically had to be wealthy, have connections, or have gone to a presigious high school… there were some who got in just by merit, but far fewer than today. Although this was negative obviously because many of the most talented weren’t given an opportunity, among those who did have a favorable background, studying and building up a college resume 24/7 would have seemed ridiculous. In my opinion, people like Ives, who practiced music for hours a day as a child, or Roosevelt, who was a nature- and adventure-lover, would be easy rejections today. I really think that almost all who are destined for glory in some field as an adult show signs of it as a child. The thing is, those signs are impossible to put into an application unless you have already made a big accomplishment, which is true for maybe 0.1% of those who will one day write best-sellers or something.</p>

<p>Connections may still be key to getting in (just look at our president), but are very rare these days. The bigger thing is that as acceptance rates plunge below 10%, anyone who has a passion that renders him or her unable to be a very near-2400 test taker and a very near-4.0 student, but hasn’t yet been able to shine hugely in another way, will be shut out of the Ivy world. </p>

<p>I think the thing this most affects is anyone in the arts world; however budding scientists, mathematicians, and politicians are being affected too. I am almost positive that within 20 years, only a handfull of the leaders in these “gray areas” (dubbed by me), which demand time and attention in the pre-collegiate years but don’t produce any trophies to show for it, will have gone to an Ivy. As an end result, if things to change, the people to have graduated from these places will show plenty of ability to follow directions, and will be brilliant in some way, but will severely lack creativity and originality. In other words, to have jumped through the thousands of hoops to get into one of these places - and I am convinced that people who get in these days would NOT do all they do if not for the college resume incentive - you have to be certain kind of person who has lots of brains but is a little too obsessed with prestige and has big eyes. </p>

<p>This is of course a generalization. Not to make this any longer, I have a certain talent that I know will serve me greatly in the adult world, but can’t be committed to paper-- I’m just not there yet. So Yale saw my very good scores and very good grades and everything, and chose people with near-perfect (or perfect) ones. I’m just concerned with what’s going to happen in the long run. </p>

<p>P.S. I still love places like Yale and Columbia! I just think something’s crazy with the system.</p>

2

<p>okay, I got in, but I’m not offended by that at all. I totally agree with all of that. The thing is that people are going to get a great education at so many schools that the ivy-thing is really losing its cache. Maybe not too much, but it’s not the end all that it definitely used to be. I still might have to go elsewhere because of financial things.</p>

3

<p>It’s good to hear that, actually. So many of my friends are freaking out at getting rejected from places like Yale. It’s great if you get in, but like peterson said, it really is losing its reputation. Great professors are everywhere, great schools are everywhere… great students are everywhere. I’m musing about what saying “I went to Harvard” will sound like when we’re in the workforce.</p>

4

<p>right, there are so many “liitle Ivies” (not my phrase) in the Northeast or elsewhere that are as good academically as the Ivies themselves. There are also a ton of big, public schools that are great too (UMichigan, the UC schools). It’s even arguable that the Ivies emphasize grad students too much and undergrad may be better somewhere else.</p>

5

<p>i agree as well…now that i have been deferred, i realize this is probably for the best. even my grandparents in china know that there are amazing schools everywhere, and going to a place like yale is no indication of future success. sure, it’s my first choice, but i would be just as happy somewhere else- minus the hefty price tag of an Ivy League education.</p>

6

<p>I got in, but I agree with many of your points. But I still think saying “I went to Harvard” will sound amazing. Simply the fact that you were part of the miniscule number of students who gained admission is impressive. Of course a student from Umich can be smarter than someone fromy HYP, but after that first “What college did you go to?” question, the nod definitely goes to the latter. </p>

<p>Yale Daily News (<a href=“http://www.yaledailynews.com/article.asp?AID=31107[/url]”>http://www.yaledailynews.com/article.asp?AID=31107&lt;/a&gt;) wrote an article about how only 10% of large corportation ceos are ivy leauge graduates. Yeah, the percentage is dropping, but it’s still incredible that eight schools can capture 10% of all ceo jobs in a country with 1000s of colleges.The amout of people attending college has increased greatly while the amount of people attending ivy league universities has stayed pretty much static. So of course the percentage of famous people from HYP has decreased. </p>

<p>

I disagree with this point. The same ambition that gets people into HYP also gets them ahead in politics and business. Of course future art studs can come from anywhere. But I’m not suprised that so many prominent politicians have ivy league pasts.</p>

<p>In the end, if you’re going places in life you’re going places in life. It won’t matter what school you went to. However going to a college where such a high percentage of students are brilliant can only help your future.</p>

7

<p>I also agree that people who go to these schools succeed because they have the kind of drive and determination to get what they want out of life, not because they went to a particular school. Without a doubt, an ivy leauge degree can get you in the door for a job interview, but after that, it no longer matters. How you perform and interact with people is millions of times more important than some fancy degree. A degree is just another quality that can help a person, just like charisma, ambition, a talent, or anything else. Too many students think, “oh, if only i could get into this school, my life would be all set” but that’s just not true.</p>

8

<p>From that same article:

</p>

9

<p>From above:
“I would not want a student to make the assumption that one’s education is going to get them something.”
Its not the education per se, but the connections made with peers, professors and alumni that open doors, not the quality of the education itself. </p>

<p>“you have to be certain kind of person who has lots of brains but is a little too obsessed with prestige and has big eyes.”
I agree with this, because during high school, no matter how much i wanted to go to Yale, or how bright I was, i was not the kind of person (cough <em>swot</em> cough cough) that could translate that into marks. Many many of my fellow student were burnt out beginning year 12, and didn’t achieve the marks that they should have got, if we were judging on how smart a person is. As I start my third year of university, I feel the drive to compete and be the top start to return, a natural progression. I don’t think I would have made it if I had gotten into HYP and been forced to study six hours a night to keep up. I think it’s better to have that drive at the end of your degree as you walk into the workforce, rather than stumbling out exhausted and overworked. </p>

<p>ps- my university is #87 in the world, up from 113 last year, according to the Times. :)</p>

10

<p>I agree with you.</p>

<p>Many ppl at the Ivy Leagues will do nothing great in their lives. It’s sad, but true.</p>

<p>I think Ivy Leagues are moving toward a mastery in a certain passion, though. Something unique.</p>

<p>You can still be successful, though… and not go Ivy. There are very few presidents from Ivy Leagues…</p>

11

<p>Yale is not your ticket to a prosperous and happy life, but it is an amazing school with amazing academics. I don’t see education as a means to the end, but rather an end in itself. When you think about it this way, the CEO argument doesn’t hold much clout. However, I do agree that its useful for people to remember that going to an Ivy League school will not necesarily get them ahead in life. Yale is just a school. Harvard is just a school. Whatever.</p>

12

<p>the only reason why I ever applied to Yale, and im trying like to hell to hopefully get in RD after being deferred, is the AMAZING research opportunities</p>

<p>aisde from that, Yale doesn’t GRADE cap. if you make an A, you get an A…</p>

13

<p>parisienne_08, post #9 very interesting. There’s anecdotal evidence to back you up.</p>

14

<p>Amnesia, what do you mean by grade cap? Isn’t that when the professor only gives out a certain number of As, Bs, and so forth?</p>

15

<p>ditto Aboo. If so, I don’t want a grade cap.</p>

16

<p>what is HYP?</p>

17

<p>The big three…Harvard, Yale, Princeton. The occasional HYPS includes Stanford.</p>

18

<p>question for those who are deferred…are you addressing your appeal letter (if you’re writing one) to your regional officer or yale? i can’t seem to find my regional officer’s address online.</p>

19

<p>Hmm…is an appeal letter just meant to explain why Yale is still your #1 choice? What exactly should it say?</p>

20

<p>regional rep, I think. My rep responded that I should email him again in February, so that may be the time for the so-called “appeal letter.”</p>