So no way I can get aid of any kind?!!

Paying for College
1

<p>I thought I would get aid if I get into a need-blind school, but it turns out that I do not ‘need’ aid of any kind.</p>

<p>I’ve heard of kids who finally discovered how rich their parents actually were when filing the CSS Profile, but my story is different because it is exactly what I know about my family’s financial situation that is hurting my chances of getting aid.</p>

<p>What I planned to write was quite long, so I cut the chunk of emotional bunk.</p>

<p>It all started after a discussion with a friend, and I realized the fact that my father owned a factory might make me look ‘rich’, although the company was a joint venture. Then I began filing the CSS and figured out the big problem caused by a recent change in the company’s ownership. My dad now holds a bit more than 1/3 of the corporation that is not any larger than a small business while the paper value of the company makes it look colossal. The reform basically allows the company to raise funds from friends, relatives, employees by trading their ownership, sort of like the Small business Stock in the States. In order to qualify for the reform, the business was revalued and it suddenly started to pay tax 300% more(more! not higher rate) than before. It is now in this stage prior to going on public stock market. As a result, the value of the shares my father has is definitely inflated… to 1-2million USD…</p>

<p>My parents are both tied to this business bucause people expect way too much from them. No way my father can cash out because he is the board chairman and has managerial duties as well. People think my parents would flee if they were to come and stay with me.</p>

<p>My family spending comes from my mother’s salary 15000/yr and gaining from the stock market which varies(my mother manages to maintain the base of $20000 which is only 50% of what she used to have before the crisis). My father’s salary 17,000/yr is virtually used to pay the housing loans. If the market is bad, they simply become more frugal in order to keep the base.
I do not live with my parents. I pay $CAD12k/yr to enroll in this school as an international which is not that right since I am a permanent resident.</p>

<p>So my dilemma is whether I lie on the CSS Profile like many people do, which is not really an option or I get virtually no FA for being the only child of a prominent professional and business owner. According to the forms, my family’s assets exceed 2million USD even in a country 1/40 of the States in GDP per capita.</p>

<p>I’m sure that we are rich in thoughts and spirits after taking so many responsibilities. They value careers that much because the big family, their underdeveloped hometown and people coming from it all moreor less depend on them and expect a lot from them, which I do not blame. The number in household alone is huge, not to mention the excessive number of employees. It well explains why they want to expand the business that much, stretching as much as possible in the last decade of their career. Yet these factors can not be reflected from the CSS, except for one supplemental question of Harvard’s asking how much we pay for people dependent on my parents. Because the family in the house is small while the spending happens everywhere.</p>

<p>They are my role models but living in such a stressful life is horrifying. I’m guilty enough to not to take money from my parents when paying the international student fee required for kids living away from their parents(ridiculous policy…we should get aid instead of a “fine”). Just thinking about this muchmoney can aid acouple cousins of mine to bribe their way into schools is killing me(weird? i never need to bribe but they sort of do…).
Getting into debts is definitely something I can accept, which is unfortunately just not gonna happen because I’m an international. Scholarships are great but not necessary unless they exceed the tuition, right? Colleges would simply subtract it out of the FA package…
HMM i hate this</p>

2

<p>What exactly do you expect to receive and why? I don’t really understand what you want. Do you want the school to give you need based aid when the method by which need is determined may not determine that you have any need? There must be some standard by which to determine how best to allocate limited assets, and the FAFSA/Profile is the best we have at this point in time. Is it perfect? No. However, it is what it is.</p>

<p>Lying is never okay. Period.</p>

<p>If you cannot afford a school, find one you can afford. If the issue is that you are living away from home, are there not schools at home?</p>

3

<p>As Kelsmom said…if you don’t qualify for need based aid, then you will have to look at colleges that can provide you with a college education at less cost or that might award an international student merit aid. </p>

<p>Since you are an international student, you would not qualify for any federally funded need based aid here.</p>

<p>If you are “paying” $12,000 a year" for your current high school, you can begin by applying that amount to your future college costs. Where is THAT money coming from on your family’s income. By your reports, that is more than a third of what they earn. Sorry…I don’t believe that.</p>

<p>You will need to look at affordable options for your family…and that is the case for EVERY student who applies to college. Someone has to pay the bills…if you don’t qualify for need based aid, you might get some merit aid to help your family offset the costs.</p>

4

<p>“I do not live with my parents. I pay $CAD12k/yr to enroll in this school as an international which is not that right since I am a permanent resident.”</p>

<p>Where do your parents live? If they do not live in the school district that you are attending, it is normal for even a public school district in the US to charge tuition. </p>

<p>Are you a US permanent resident? If so, you are not an international student for financial aid purposes, but you may be an out-of-state student based on your parents’ residence. If your parents do not reside in the US, you may find that you do not have in-state status anywhere. Check up on the in-state policies of the public colleges/universities/community colleges in the state where you are currently living and studying, and find out if you qualify for in-state tuition and fees.</p>

<p>In Maryland, a US citizen or permanent resident who moves here to work, can establish in-state residence for community college tuition and fees after three months, and in-state residence for public university tuition and fees after 12 months. The key is that you would have to move here, find a job, support yourself, and give all indication that you intend to live here and pay taxes like the rest of us. You could not enroll anywhere until the 3 to 12 months have passed.</p>

<p>In the US, the largest number of college-age students are attending their local community colleges. The second largest number are attending their home-state public universities. Many of these students are studying part-time and working full-time. Some are working more than one job so that they can afford to live, help support their families, and pay for their educations. Only here at CC do people believe that no one has to pay for their own education, and that everyone has to go to famous name colleges and universities.</p>

<p>Your parents have set you an excellent example of how by working hard you can get ahead. You can do the same thing. Most of life (and college) is what you make of it. If you must start at your local community college and then transfer to your home-state public U, you will be in good company.</p>

5

<p>Back to the issue at hand…</p>

<p>It appears from your original post that the clincher in your finaid app is the value or your parents’ stock in their company. But your description of the company is very confusing.</p>

<p>How was the value of this stock determined? Is this a publicly traded company? Is this the value of the stock based upon a report supplied to a bank? Is this the value off a balance sheet?</p>

<p>There are dozens of ways to value a company, and they are far from equal. The reasonable valuation of your parents’ stock could be twice what you report, or it could be pennies.</p>

<p>So where did you come up with this valuation?</p>

6

<p>no i did not come up with this myself. for a company to go into public market, its financial report has to be public too, meaning this evaluation is uniform for every share held by any stakeholders. the company is not publicly traded yet, but its quarter/annual report is public. the value does fluctuate but it is not in our own hands to determine any more.</p>

7

<p>not really. if you see the currency of the 12k tuition is in canadian, you may figure out that im a P.R of canada, who is not an international and therefore should not be charged of tuition, especially not in the name of “international education”. this $12k/yr is paid b/c i live here pretty much by myself.
my parents are good examples indeed which is why i want to go without having to let them pay too much-my mom did not let their parents pay a cent in going to a top uni in the country. as you can see, no assets of ours are very liquid.</p>

8

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<p>I am SO confused. If you are a primary resident of CANADA and you are attending school in the united states, you ARE an international student. You are not a citizen of the United States as far as your school is concerned.</p>

<p>If you are living here “pretty much by yourself”…who is paying your living expenses (housing and food), in addition to your tuition? If your parents who are residing in Canada are paying your bills, you (as others have pointed out), probably do not have instate residency for tuition purposes as in most cases, the residency of an undergraduate’s parents determine residency. </p>

<p>Re: the business…the value of your business sounds like it fluctuates, but there is a possibility that it could have a huge value if you were able to sell it (for example). While this business is not a “liquid asset”…it sounds like your family would want it to have a LOT of value for stock sales purposes…but YOU don’t want it to have any value for need based financial aid purposes. You can’t have it both ways.</p>

9

<p>As I have pointed out, I am attending high school in canada, and my parents are just nowhere around. They pay my bills, i’m not completely detached from them.
Anywhere I go in North America, I’m international.</p>

<p>My parents do expect the stock to be huge, who wouldn’t? but if you can tell from my post, it is them who are operating the business. They are not investors like Warron Buffett who buys a big chunk then sits back and wait for a long time to sell; my father is “stakeholder with managerial duties”, suggesting the percentage he owns is not likely to change, which makes it much more solid than the money you invest in stock market. There’s no dividend for himself.</p>

<p>I do want be perceived as a kid from a family of entrepreneurial spirits. I never want to lie, but adding the value of the stock to our assets to determine my ‘need’ is just ridiculous because my family are far from being THAT rich-the stock does not worth as much as its paper value if it cannot be sold within this decade at least.</p>

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<p>my parents are good examples indeed which is why i want to go without having to let them pay too much-my mom did not let their parents pay a cent in going to a top uni in the country.</p>

<p>You say that you don’t want your parents to “pay too much” of your education. But, exactly WHO do you think should pay for your education? I can possibly see expecting your native country to pay for your education. But do you really think a foreign country owes you a university education? Would your country pay for American children’s education?</p>

<p>And, even if you are an American or Perm Res, why would you think that others who don’t own companies worth millions should have to pay for your education?</p>

11

<p>You are a permanent resident in Canada.</p>

<p>You are currently studying in a high school in Canada.</p>

<p>You want an affordable university-level education.</p>

<p>You should be looking at colleges and universities in CANADA. Talk to the guidance office at your high school. Find out just exactly what the restrictions are for you in your visa status there. Get specific advice from people expert in Canadian immigration issues. It looks to me like you can work there and put yourself through school. This is what I found googling “Canada Imigration Permanent Residence”: [Canada</a> Immigration FAQ - Find Answers to Your Canada Immigration Questions](<a href=“http://www.canadavisa.com/canadian-immigration-faq.html]Canada”>About the Cohen Immigration Law Firm | Canadavisa.com)</p>

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<p>And again I ask…who is paying your living expenses? You have $12K in tuition and you must have living expenses where you attend school too. Living expenses are not free. </p>

<p>I’m going to be a bit direct here so please don’t take offense. You say your family does not have very good financial resources, yet they have $12,000 plus living expenses for you to attend a school that is not where they live. In most families with financial issues, there would not BE $12K for these expenses. The kids would attend school where the parents live in a public school setting.</p>

<p>As for college, if finances are limited, perhaps you should be looking where your parents reside for colleges.</p>

<p>I still do NOT understand why you do NOT think you should be paying international student tuition at your current high school, when YOU wrote the above quote. Sorry…I don’t get it.</p>

13

<p>So my dilemma is whether I lie on the CSS Profile like many people do,</p>

<p>Since many schools require signed documentation to back up PROFILE, like final copies of W-2s & 1040 forms, even if someone was so inclined, they would have to be an idiot to falsify documents.</p>

<p>I disagree that scholarships are worthless unless they exceed tuition. Scholarships will reduce loans. Figure out with your parents what you can afford to pay from current and future income & savings. If you want it enough, you can make it work.</p>

14

<p>I think the OP thinks that because he’s living in Canada that he’s a permenant resident of Canada. But, it sounds like he’s living there for educational purposes, not as a perm. resident.</p>

15

<p>I am a p.r of canada, guaranteed. so no confusion on that.
my parents are willing to pay my expenses here because 1)they value education 2)we did not really expect that international student fee imposed an underage P.Rs who live by thenselves 3)we THOUGHT it was worth it, after we had sacrificed that much</p>

<p>the business is probably the only assets we have. though my parents regard it more as a career they explore rather than cash money it yields.</p>

<p>i highly doubt they think its worth it for a midiocre college. yet they do not think it is wise to take out cash from a company that is at a critical point.
i don’t think so, either.</p>

<p>Maybe I should take a gap year. or claim independence?</p>

<p>they are just filial duties I must fulfill. i can’t afford having to go to grad school before working-4yrs and indefinite expenses, if i go to a mundane college. without grad school, the job and doesn’t yield a good standard of living, considering the debt i will be in. so that will count as a transitional period of serveral years, still indefinitely.
Moreover, I will feel disappointed for anything that does not match my parents’ expectation
not like i do everything for them, but i ought to get my years here (and their supprt)paid off.</p>

<p>A gap year in some program means a year w/o having to be supported financially by my parents. if it is in Canada, i may meet the requirements for citizenship, which i previously did not consider getting. If I get in one in other countries, it’ll be fine for me since I’m so used to travelling. I haven’t volunteered much since I came to Canada and I’m feeling guilty about it. I can take up ketstone correspondence courses that will barely cost a quarter of my intl-fee here. any opinions on that??</p>

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<p>Messenia,</p>

<p>Most of us know very little about Canadian universities, and even less (if that is possible to imagine) about Canadian immigration. The chances of you getting truly useful advice from us given your situation is just about zero. You really, truly, need to get specific help for your Canadian issues. Start by talking with teachers and counselors at your HS who can guide you with dealing with the Canadian higher education system.</p>

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<p>If taking a gap year will improve the “financial landscape” from the family point of view…perhaps this can be considered. If it’s only going to defer the SAME decision, I would say you should think wisely about this first.</p>

<p>Re: “claim independence”…you can’t just “claim independence” for financial aid purposes (or admissions purposes for that matter). In the U.S…for undergrad students are dependents for financial aid purposes unless they are over 24 years of age, orphans, wards of the state, veterans, married, supporting a dependent child, or have a bachelors degree already. Otherwise…you are DEPENDENT for financial aid purposes whether you want to be or not.</p>

<p>For residency purposes…undergrads are viewed as residents of the place in which their PARENTS reside. It doesn’t matter where YOU reside…it matters where your PARENTS reside.</p>

18

<p>Are you asking about financial aid for Canadian or US schools? I can’t tell from the previous posts exactly what your goal is. There are US schools who have preferential tuition rates for Canadians - whether permanent residents qualify or not, I don’t know. There are also US school who give scholarships to international students although we have no idea what your grades, scores, and interests are. But, as happymom said, this is probably NOT a solid source of info about Canadian colleges.</p>

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<p>OP mentioned looking at filling out the CSS for Harvard.</p>

20

<p>As I see it, you will not get aid from a US college. Your family has a substantial business asset and they can take money out of the business or borrow against it. Simply, not disclosing this is fraud. It sounds like they are poised for a public offering which mean reams of financial detail is readily available and playing with valuations makes no sense. </p>

<p>Your best bet seems to be to attend college in Canada or your home Country.</p>