<p>My college-bound son has been offered a slot in the Honors Program at a prominent universlty (not Ivy but close). He has very high SATs especially math, some 800s in SAT IIs and lots of AP all around. Was football captain, Scholar Athlete, great service, NHS etc. But he doesn’t want to take advantage of the HP saying he wants to be with “regular” students and maybe perceives a “geek factor” and/or thinks it may impair his overall college (social?) experience. I think these are ill-considered reasons to pass up a “top shelf” educational (and possibly career) opportunity, but I do not know how to turn his head the right way. Am I being unreasonable or obtuse? I can’t be alone in this. Help.</p>
<p>I can kind of understand his views…some honors programs 'segregate" the students with each other…and if the program is small, it can be a small cirlce of students to get to know</p>
<p>It depends, I would think, on how the program is set up</p>
<p>There was a program my D could have done in HS at a school she was accepted to…great program… but many of the classes were with the same students, a lot of the same students…and meetings after school, with the same students, programs, with the same kids…and while the program was great, the seperation (real and perceived) that my D saw made it not so attractive</p>
<p>maybe that is what your son is seeing…the program itself needs to be looked at with objective eyes</p>
<p>is it sergrated or integrated with the rest of the school
are classes with some of the same kids all the time, or are the classes mixed
are there meetings and events they MUST attend
do the students feel part of the large school in all aspects</p>
<p>neither side is wrong, just what matches for your son</p>
<p>good luck!!!</p>
<p>What is your son interested in majoring in? Many honors programs emphasize the liberal arts, and are not particularly relevant for physical science or engineering majors. Is your son required to live an an honors dorm in order to participate in the honors program? If you are still interested, at many schools he may be able to join the honors program after his freshman year. As long as your son selects reasonable courses and gets good grades, I wouldn’t worry too much about the honors program.</p>
<p>Interested in Econ/Math, wants to go into investment banking; HP crosses over between humanities and science. Son’s strengh is in quantitative/scientific but not interested in hard science/engineering career-wise. This HP has no “segregated” living and only one to two “required” honors courses (replacing university requirements) freshman year (but he would be placed into “honors-type” math and science anyway due to AP). Basically no requirements for soph/jr year, with electives, senior year requires thesis and seminar. Offers “free pass” to “best” courses throughout, advisor, lounge, some trips and lectures and a lot of it is ala carte.</p>
<p>I think it’s time to let him make those decisions. Make sure he’s fully infomred and then let it go. Believe me, you’ll sigh a sigh-of-relief when you let go of the details of his college experience.</p>
<p>Let him decide, but the program sounds good!! He just sounds tired of science…I know my D is, she was so excited that she is finishing her 4th year of science this year, and as a senior can take another class- Ap World History along with AP American Government</p>
<p>She says when she goes to college, she will avoid science at all costs</p>
<p>He may change his mind by August, why not have him give it a try, then if it doesn’t work out drop it. Especially since there is no residential segregation where he won’t be living with “geeks”.</p>
<p>
What is the “right way” for his to turn? The way you believe?</p>
<p>I have stayed out of the honors program threads because my (communist based) reaction is quite often opposite of most of the posters. There are strings of notes about the advantages of the programs … early sign-up for classes, special dorms, special this, special that … my initial reaction to each of these benefits is that the honors programs could be viewed as creating classes of students within a school … and for me this generates an incredible negative reaction … any school which segrates it’s honors students to a large degree would lose points in my book. I’ve not shared this on CC because my opinions matter not one bit to any other’s families thoughts and opinions … but I certainly understand any student having some issues with an honor’s program. Hopefully, I’ll support my kids whichever way they view honor’s programs and if they decide to apply (or not). (FYI - I find the creation of honor’s programs within a public school particularly troubling … it feels like a major move away from the mission of a public school).</p>
<p>I am not arguing for or against honor’s programs but trying to make the point that your son may have well founded issues with the programs … coming at the argument in a very different way than you. Which takes me back to the first question … whose view of honor’s programs is most important in this case?</p>
<p>3togo…I agree with you…I see the seperation as not something i would find attractive</p>
<p>my D did not find it attractive either, and chose to go to another school that did not segregate the HS students</p>
<p>
and I like your shorter version of the overall situation … honors programs are not inherently good or bad; each applicant (and their families) will view them differently.</p>
<p>I wonder if the University would be willing to put your son in touch with some current honors students so he can ask the questions directly (and if your son would be willing to ask)? In many cases, honors students get smaller classes with more interesting profs earlier registration AND NO ONE KNOWS HE’S HONORS UNLESS HE CHOOSES TO SHARE THAT FACT! (oops, the caps were my frustration showing). Would he decline to be 1st string on an athletic program? Solo violin in an orchestra? Your son may have excellent reasons for turning this down, but he seems to be doing so based upon no data.</p>
<p>My S also turned down an invite to the Honors College at our state u.
He too, said he wanted to be with the “regular guys”. Part of me wondered if after being labeled “the smart kid” ( he did sports and other ec’s too) all through school, he really just wanted to be a regular guy with no labels attached for college.
Also he has a time consuming program (NROTC) in addition to his regular classes so thought honors would add an unnecessary burden.</p>
<p>Neighbor’s S at different state u chose to participate in honors classes but absolutely refused to live in honors dorm. Wanted to live with the “regular guys” too.</p>
<p>Maybe it’s a guy thing!</p>
<p>Does he have to commit now? If he does, is it irreversible? If he does not have to commit, let it ride, ask him to think about it, do more research, contact students, etc… If he has to commit but it is not irreversible, encourage him to sign up for it, but, tell him he has the option to change his mind any time during the summer. The idea is to keep his options open. But if his mind is absolutely made up, don’t fight it. It’s his college experience.</p>
<p>H was not in the Honors Program at our college; I was. He took US History in an auditorium with 500 other regular joes; I was able to take the US History for History Majors class, which was a seminar class of 25 kids. I’m sold on Honors Programs.</p>
<p>My son wasn’t interested in the Honors program until we visited on preview day and he went to a Honors seminar. He had a chance to listen, ask questions, tour the dorm and talk to many kids in the Honors program. </p>
<p>Good luck to your son.</p>
<p>BewilderedDad, you could have been describing my son as well. I think that there is an apprehension in young men - particularly young men whose social circle is composed of jocks and other “regular”, i.e., not “intellectual” kids - that if they do something to single them out as academic standouts they will lose their friends or social standing (even thought they are headed off to a new environment at college.) I’m planning to have a talk with my son about how he will be experiencing an opportunity to “reinvent” himself at college, and that he should try to look forward and think whay kind of a person he will want to be years from now, instead of just focussing on the present.</p>
<p>Will it work? I don’t know. But your son is not alone in his feelings.</p>
<p>My niece felt the same way about one of the honors programs to which she was admitted. She didn’t want to do it. I think after all the pressure these kids have in high school, they just want to be “mainstream”. Some- not all. I would support your son’s decision.</p>
<p>Only skimmed this thread, but has he overnighted at the school? I would suggest he do so with someone in the Honors program. He’ll get a good feel of whether the kids are “regular.” I was (pleasantly) surprised that my S wanted the Honors dorm. But that is where his overnight host was, and he never looked back after having a great time there for two nights. If he’s confident that he wants to be outside the Honors program after overnighting, I’d let it be.</p>
<p>My son is doing an honors program at a large public. They do segregate the students, and although it is optional, I am told that 90% of the students choose the honors dorms. He too, was concerned about the “geek” factor. He has decided to room with his friend who also got into the program, and is an athlete and well-rounded kid like him. When we visited on accepted students day, we found that the kids seemed very normal and down-to-earth. I was concerned about a feeling of “elitism” but I did not pick that up. The kids said that most students didn’t even know they were honors students - but the teachers did. I am actually quite pleased that he will participate in this program as it does offer the perks of smaller classes, top faculty , priority registration, travel abroad etc. The classes at this school can reach up to the 500-700, so I’m not sure he would have gone there if the honors college option was not available.<br>
Some believe that honors programs like this are unfair but we see it as a payoff for the very hard work my son has put in over the last four years. Many of his friends that are going to this school have done the minimum to get by in high school. Also, the school has a reputation of being a big party school and I like the idea that he will be around high achieving kids of varied interests (although I’m sure there will be partiers among them).
The honors college has an excellent reputation, the kids seems to love it, and he gets a bit of the “best of both worlds”. At least that’s how I hope it ends up!<br>
For your son, I would support what he wants to do , but make sure he gets an up and close look at what the program has to offer.</p>
<p>Hmmmm…so some classes are huge, and the honors ones are smaller, yet the tuition is the same for everyone…seems fair…</p>
<p>Just pointing out something, that me, as a parent, who, if I had a kid, who was qualified enough to get into a great school, would have less (by larger class sizes, etc) but am paying the same amount of $$$$$, would be a bit irked</p>
<p>Yep, that makes me happy</p>
<p>There more given to the honors students, the less for the others</p>
<p>If a class has 500 students, and an honors one has even half, yet they both pay the same, seems a bit skewed, but thats the commie in me i guess</p>