<p>So, we have quite a split on this topic. For those of you against the concept of honors schools, are you saying that you would refuse the money and perks if they were offered to your sons and daughters? Or perhaps refuse to allow you kids to apply to the schools that have honors programs? In our case, the honors college at our large (in-state) public is a quality program (not just group discussions and writing requirements). My son applied, was accepted and is very excited to be going there. Should he turn down the opportunity because some people think it’s not fair? Would you advise your child to do that, even if they were enthusiastic about the opportunity? Let’s be real honest here…</p>
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in my response to the OP said I believe the the only view of honors programs that counts is the applicants … and that I can understand why a student (his son) would be uncomfortable with a honors program. So when my kids apply to school I hope to be supportive of whatever programs and schools excite them and they believe will make a great college environment for them … what these schools and programs do for me is of no importance.</p>
<p>Restricting honors programs because they are unfair is a simplistic response to the universities attempt to offer appropriate programs to different students.</p>
<p>Bewildered Dad:
I would second the suggestion to have your son spend the night. My son is in Penn State’s honor’s program and is loving it. It is possible to take advantage of the academic program without living in honors housing. Some kids definitely make that decision.
Honor’s housing is 80% honors students and has longer quiet hours and a generally more studious feel. Honor’s students do get to register for classes early but honors classes are open to anyone who wants to do the work. It is also possible to apply for admission to the honors college at the end of sophomore year.
It is important for all kids at large universities to find a way to create a more personal experience. There are special housing options for languages, certain majors, and those desiring substance free housing or other particular life styles.</p>
<p>toneranger: excellent question! (Apologies in advance if my post isn’t completely coherent since I never was that clear a thinker and have reached the age where the mind gets fuzzier and fuzzier.) Although I have a philosophical problem with elitist programs (those available to and benefiting only a few) I absolutely want my own kids to take advantage of all that are available to them. It never even occurred to me (until this discussion thread) that I never would have considered my kids attending a state school unless being part of the honors college or program. (My bad. And apologies to all whose kids are getting a great education at a public school but not participating in an honors program!) And imho there are such programs equal to any private school offerings. For years I’ve been feeling guilty about my kids’ private college “elite” education (and thinking probably we should be supporting the public system) but it hadn’t occured to me to consider that public schools shouldn’t have an “elite” component for those who could take advantage of the opportunity.</p>
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^ ^ ^ Agree, agree, agree…</p>
<p>My S was accepted into a few Honors colleges. In the end, he chose the school but not the Honors program. I think that the Honors program would have been good for him at a bigger school. He picked a smaller, technical school and did not choose the Honors option. Just wanted to be a regular student.</p>
<p>How is having an “honors” program that separates its better students ANY different than a “more selective” state college that doesn’t accept many/most applicants? </p>
<p>One is separating kids on the campus and the other won’t even let the kids on the campus (and makes them go to a different “lower ranked” campus"). Those who argue that Honors programs are somehow “undemocratic” and do not provide equal access to the best teachers/facilities should then be arguing that there should be no such thing as “selective” state colleges. Selective state schools get the best teachers and facilities yet EVERYONE doesn’t have access to them and are segregated away from the campus. </p>
<p>BTW – I have no problem with honors programs or selective state colleges. I am just pointing out the inconsistencies with those who have no problem with selective state schools but are opposed to honors programs because they “segregate” and/or get the better profs and other bennies. Would those who object to honors programs prefer if the school just moved the kids to an offsite campus and called that campus another “name” (essentially becoming a stand alone “more selective” state college)???</p>
<p>I also don’t see how honors programs can be considered “unfair”. Kids who are invited to participate in them earned their right to be accepted into those programs. It is not any less “fair” then merit scholarship.</p>
<p>Colleges are trying to attract the top students by offering merit money and honors programs because having those students on campus makes the college better for everyone.</p>
<p>As for OP’s son - I think he should keep his options open, and at least give it a try. It’s true that it is very hard to convince the kid at this point to do something he does not want to do (and he very well might fail at it, just to ‘prove you wrong’). You have to know your kid well enough to know how much you can push him. But I still strongly believe that kids should be going to college to get education, not to ‘have a college experience’. And they should strive to get the best education they can. If your son wants to be an investment banker, he will need every opportunity he has to show that he’s got what it takes - the drive, the initiative, etc.</p>
<p>jlauer: Very good point -I don’t see many posts that talk about closing down W&M because it’s unfair to VA state students. It’s just not realistic to think that everyone gets the exact same opportunities.</p>
<p>My son is a high school senior had some of the same issues as your son. At the college he will be attending, the honor’s program consists of priority registration, honor’s dorms, open curriculum (no core requirements), and special advisor. There are no honor’s only classes, papers, trips, etc. </p>
<p>This helped him decide to accept the honor’s program:
- He talked to friends who are currently in the honor’s program at his college and they gave him very good advice.
a. It’s easy to make friends with other students, and most won’t be in the honor’s program, so he can hang out with them at their dorms.
b. Although the honor’s dorms can tend to be a bit “geeky”, there are many kids in the honor’s program that aren’t.
c. When it’s time to study, it’s invaluable to have a quiet place to go, without having to go to the library.
d. Priority registration - priceless. - He has friends at other colleges that have to sleep and study wearing earplugs in the dorm.
- He visited the college on a day set aside for honor’s students, and learned a lot more about the program from many current students.</p>
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I agree with this, BWdad. And, you never know how things will work out in college. My daughter turned down an honors program at her university. I thought she was nuts to do it, but she interviewed with the professor who was in charge of the program, and she had an immediate visceral dislike of him. She had him for a class later on, and it was not a good class because the professor was snarky and uncommunicative. </p>
<p>This guy would have been her advisor if she’d signed up for the honors program. Instead, she developed good relationships with two other professors who have been instrumental in helping her pursue her academic and career goals. She’s now a junior. The freshman honors opportunity was inconsequential in terms of her achievement over the past 3 years. </p>
<p>Freshman year, she excelled in all of her classes and made the Dean’s List each quarter. Her performance in class is what made her an honors student, and I think that this is what she wanted to prove by not designating herself as an honors student before classes had even begun. Priority registration happened anyway as a result of having enough credits to register as a sophomore during Spring Quarter of her freshman year.</p>
<p>I now understand why my daughter did not want to put herself out there as an honors student before she’d had the opportunity to demonstrate her ability. I think it is natural for some incoming freshmen to be a little cautious about the classes, so they are hesitant to put themselves in an honors program before they’ve had a chance to be a student on that campus.</p>
<p>I agree with much of what has been posted. My sibs & I chose to be in the Honor’s Program at our huge flagship U in the 70s because we wanted the smaller class sizes (intimindated by having classes in a theater with 500-1000). It was a good experience; we wrote honors theses in order to graduate with honors.
Public Us are offering Honors Colleges to offer kids with high grades & scores in their schools rather than having them go elsewhere (private or more prestigous other options). Is this the BEST way for a U to use it’s assets? The debate about this can & has raged.
Even some private colleges are beginning to have Honors Colleges within them–Santa Clara U invited my son to be in their Honor’s College & USoCal is starting an Honor’s College/Program as well. My friend’s daughter has accepted an invitation to Seattle U’s Honor’s College. So much about Honor’s Colleges does depend on how the program is set up & the individuals involved–faculty & kids. My son has indicated NO interest in any honor’s programs at the college level & we (& he) are content that he will have enough challenges with the School of Engineering.
Many/most schools will allow students to apply or be invited to join the Honor’s College at a later date if they decide not to enroll as freshmen. College is time for kids to make choices and decisions about what THEY want. If my son decides at a later date that he wants it, he will look into it, I imagine.</p>
<p>BewilderedDad - Another possibility (hopefully not repeating other posts), but most Honors Colleges/Programs also allow entry into Honors later if the student’s college grade point is high enough. If this is the case at your son’s university, maybe he can take a sip (try out/audit a couple Honors classes, see/talk to the Honors kids and faculty, etc.) once he gets on campus and then re-apply some time in the first couple years - if that is his wish.</p>
<p>Himom - I just saw that you beat me to the punch with the same suggestion of “try now and buy later”.</p>