<p>Just curious: whether this is normal/to be expected for a teenager…</p>
<p>My son is a terrific kid, going to a top elite school this fall. Nice personality. Well liked by teachers and peers. Never got into trouble. We never had any conflict with him. Have a wonderful, open relationship with him. Very very trouble free, conflict free teenage period. </p>
<p>He got a full ride from another school, but we agreed to finance his top elite school education paying a full sticker price not because we have millions of dollars stashed away all over the place, but because we are willing to cut all fat from our life style (we are not getting any FA due to the savings and home equity). In this economy with our savings going down due to the stock market crash, and the prospect of uncertain economic future for everyone, we have minimized our life style to a bare minimum. I don’t even buy coffee anymore - I bring a hot thermo of coffee or tee with me. We haven’t eaten out in ages, not even a lunch sandwich. The only area we spend extravagantly is the kids’ education. </p>
<p>So, what am I talking about? Well, I feel that my son more or less takes all this for granted. I sense a sort of entitlement attitude on his part. Not because of any explicit expression on his part, but perhaps because of absence of any sign that he understands that his parents are making a sacrifice so that he can have everything he wants… and that he appreciates it. In his defense, I must add though that we live in an area where parents are all paying for top private college tuitions for their children - mostly full pay, and my kids did grow up in an upper middle class home environment also: it’s just the recent thing that we went into a full “reduced life style” mode in the face of economic uncertainty and two kids (he and his younger brother) going into the college phase (financing two kids in private colleges all together will be well over $500K eventually). In general, I feel that he is not very a giving person. On the other hand, both I and my husband are definitely on the giving side (as opposed to receiving) in our dealings with extended family members and friends.</p>
<p>Perhaps, I am just being petty… Is my son’s attitude within a normal range of teenage behavior? Or, have I raised a kid who is essentially self centered without awareness of other people sacrifice for him or an ability to appreciate what other have done for him? Is it just a matter of further maturity he will gain as he gets older?</p>
<p>Please, let’s refrain from “are private colleges worth it” debate. There are numerous threads on this subject and people get really emotional on this. This thread is not about that…</p>
<p>Your son will not understand what a big deal this is for a few years. Our kids took it for granted that we would pay for their education until about halfway through junior year, when–quite suddenly–I got this call “thank you SO much for making sure I won’t have loans… my friends are all SO stressed about what they’re going to do.”</p>
<p>Two years post-graduation and they’re even more grateful.</p>
<p>It’s rare for a teenager, especially boys who may not be as communicative, to express any kind of gratitude verbally. If your description of him in your first paragraph is true, then I think he’s shown his gratitude already with his deeds.</p>
<p>It’s very hard for someone who doesn’t pay bills to understand the effect of taxes, living expenses, etc. I think it was only after I got out of school that I was truly grateful for my parents contribution (~20K).</p>
<p>Nothing unusual here for an affluent kid. When DH and I started feeling what you’re feeling now, when we examined our past behavior we realized we had set ourselves up. We had made clear we would pay for the best education and made it look easy.</p>
<p>We made same changes when we saw the result in our oldest. We had set him to college with all of his spending money for the year and a credit card. Soph year we changed the rules. He had to work 10 hours per week during the school year and save most of his summer earnings for spending money and books.</p>
<p>We instituted the same plan for our next two. This really helped give them some perspective.</p>
<p>But I must say, all three claim “most” of their friends do not have to work and get all spending and clothing budgets (big ones) from their parents.</p>
<p>I don’t think your son’s lack of understanding of the situation reflects badly on him. It simply means that he doesn’t have enough life experience yet to appreciate what you’re doing for him.</p>
<p>Wait a few years until he sees how many of his peers are burdened with student loans from their undergraduate years that he won’t face.</p>
<p>I agree with what the others have said. Older son took it for granted that we would pay – of course we would; we’re his parents – until he got to college and started to see how “the other half” lives. He learned quickly that some kids had work/study commitments, that others needed to maintain a certain GPA in order to keep their scholarships, that others would be saddled with loan repayments. Now that he’s out of school ('07 grad), he is very very very grateful. It takes time and experience to understand this.</p>
<p>He has never been responsible for paying for things, so he doesn’t understand your sacrifice.</p>
<p>Are you expecting him to work a job during the summer or during the school year to help pay for things? I don’t think that’s expecting too much of a student since, after all, it is for their own education.</p>
<p>Being expected to, for instance, earn the money to pay for their entertainment and other expenses in college is a good way for young people to learn many important lessons including the value of money and what it means to sacrifice to get what they want.</p>
<p>Otherwise, offspring may not understand the value of what parents are doing for them – and the value of a dollar – until they enter the workforce themselves after college.</p>
<p>I also don’t see the problem in expecting students to carry some loans in order to pay for their dreams. Sometimes the best thing that we can do for our offspring is helping them learn about the world by having to do more than get excellent grades to achieve their dreams.</p>
<p>I agree that time and experience will show him what your sacrifice has entailed. He’ll understand more as he approaches graduation (and he’ll certainly understand when he has children himself!).</p>
<p>Also think that hmom5 has it especially correct - he should have to work for some of the costs of his education, even if he isn’t able to make an appreciable financial contribution. If he can come up with even $2000/year with an on-campus job or next summer, you two might be able to enjoy a few of life’s small pleasures, which you certainly deserve to do!</p>
<p>My kids have always been able to find part-time jobs that worked well with their academic and EC schedules. So many campus jobs seem to entail being paid to sit at a desk and catch up on studying - one of my ds had her best semesters when she was working 3 times a week from midnight to 4 AM. She reasoned that she’d usually be up studying until 2 AM anyway - those extra few hours really made a difference.</p>
<p>“Also think that hmom5 has it especially correct - he should have to work for some of the costs of his education, even if he isn’t able to make an appreciable financial contribution. If he can come up with even $2000/year with an on-campus job or next summer, you two might be able to enjoy a few of life’s small pleasures, which you certainly deserve to do!”</p>
<p>I agree. It’s not asking too much to expect one’s offspring to make some sacrifice to attend their expensive dream school that their parents are financially sacrificing for the student to attend.</p>
<p>I attended my expensive dream school, and took out a loan and worked summers and during the school year to help pay for it, using my earnings to pay for books, clothing, and social expenses during the school year. I didn’t feel that I was being deprived to do this. I felt delighted to go to my dream school, and I fully understood and appreciated the sacrifice my mother made for me to attend there.</p>
<p>Having to work isn’t like being tortured. I learned a lot about the world and myself through my jobs – which included doing office work in a factory during the summer and doing office work on and off campus during the school year. My school year jobs also didn’t interfere with my academic schedule, and I still was able to have a social life.</p>
<p>I agree with the above advice. I think it’s impossible for teens to truly know how hard we work for what we have because they don’t have the experience - yet. I’m also not sure that taking out a loan will drive the lesson home. It’s just paperwork - unless the student has put in so many hours at minimum wage, how can they ‘feel’ the sacrifice - with a loan, they’re just putting off payment into the future. </p>
<p>D fits the description of your S. Never had a problem with this child, easy to get along with, always responsible, reliable, top student, etc. She’s working for minimum wage at a job that requires she stand during her 7 or 8 hour shift - with a half hour break in the middle. About the third day she came home and said “I guess I have it pretty easy.” She DOES complain about the job, but is on time and has never called in sick. The reason she thought she had it easy is one of her co-workers is holding down THREE jobs while she attends school. D explained how it all works (and the co-worker is working more during the summer than she will during the school year). As a parent, I hope my kid doesn’t do this kind of job when she’s 30. I also know that the best time in her life to hold down a minimum wage job (because I did the same) is while you’re in your teens and if she has to do this kind of work to support herself in the future, she’ll know she can do it. You learn so much about life and people, and that many hours at minimum wage adds up to a nice little bank account at the end of the summer. I think you’re less likely to blow it on binge drinking (although I’m sure that happens) when you stood in the sun to earn every dollar.</p>
<p>Actually S is working this summer. He managed to get a very prestigious paying internship on his own, which started as soon as he graduated from HS. He will have saved enough for the whole year’s worth of spending money and way more, and he fully agrees that he will be self supporting on this regard. This is the first time ever that he is working and it’s a full 7 AM -7 PM including commuting. He seems very dedicated and conscientious at work (perhaps this is why he got a guaranteed internship in the same company next year). He is not spend thrift and overall careful with his money. </p>
<p>Maybe it’s me who is being petty and expecting too much. I was a bit disappointed that he was not more forthcoming with some expression of appreciation. He is still relying on us for clothing budget (not much at all, he is not a vain kid by any stretch of imagination, but it’s a matter of principle that I was disappointed that he was still thinking this way). I was also hoping that now that he is making “so much money” (comparatively speaking), he would be a bit more generous with his younger sibling, not doing “nickel and dime” with who’s paying for what for the common expense. I guess I had an unrealistic expectation. When I was attending a college tuition free, I made very good money as a private tutor to some really rich kids, and I used to send my mom on a very nice vacation every summer. Well, different time, different place, different value</p>
<p>Based on all the input I got, I realize that I am the one with unrealistic expectation for a 18 year old who grew up in a safe “cocoon” and turned out over all pretty responsible.</p>
<p>“When I was attending a college tuition free, I made very good money as a private tutor to some really rich kids, and I used to send my mom on a very nice vacation every summer.”</p>
<p>You were far more generous with your mom than was any college student whom I’ve ever met. I’ve met some college students who were sending money home to help with their impoverished families’ finances, but I’ve never met any student who was funding a vacation for their parents.</p>
<p>In fact, even when it came to grad students in their 30s, many were still expecting their parents to pay for them to go on family vacations including trips abroad!</p>
<p>When I was in college and working summers, I’d sometimes treat my mom to dinner at a restaurant. I thought that most students would do something like that. My sons – even my most appreciative one – didn’t do that, and I realized that what I did as a college student was very different from the norm.</p>
<p>When I was a kid I just lived my life. I never thought anything at all about how and why I was living that life. Now I look back everyday and realize that I was one of the 5 luckiest kids in the world. The other 4 look back and realize it too.
He will come to appreciate all you did for him. Hopefully he will pay it down to his kids.</p>
<p>Your son sound like my two. And yet, I know that my two really appreciate that we paid full fare for them; but they are guys, not given to a great deal of verbalization of their feelings. They show their love and appreciation in different ways.
Your S now has a paying internship. Does he know how his salary compares with that of full-time workers in that company? Have you talked about your own earnings, how much you pay in taxes and other financial commitments you have? That kind of information might make him understand better the value of money and what it meant for you to finance his dream school when he could have gotten a full ride elsewhere. Otherwise, he has no way of putting your decisions in context.</p>
<p>Wholeheartedly agree with this! Listening to friends talk about student loan burdens (and these are the friends who went to state schools) was very sobering to D1 and she tells us how much she appreciates what we’ve done for her.</p>
<p>I also believe that kids won’t realize the magnitude of what parents did for them until they try to do it for their own kids. Can’t look to Grandma and Grandpa for tuition help–we already shot our wad with you!</p>
<p>We are in a similar cost situation. We a paying full costs - minus a small scholarship - at an expensive private U and have cut expenses in order to get by. Even worse my D will be starting the 5th year of a double degree program. I am close to retirement age and stock crash has had a big impact. At one time we had planned on pushing our D to pay part of the costs. Well, she has done some work/study but not enough to make any difference. We had also considered having her take out loans. We backed off. It is very clear that she is working hard and very careful about money. I would say that if your S is coming up short on effort and/or appreciation, then some financial responsibility such as loans should be considered.</p>
<p>I disagree that it is rare for teens to express gratitude, appreciation, say thank you and understand what sacrifices parents are making. I know lots of teens who understand what parents giving up so their kids can go to the college they want.</p>
<p>And you should have had him take out some loan, even a small private one,just for the principle of it.</p>
<p>We don’t give kids credit enough for the ability to have empathy, be unselfish and understand the family dynamic of finances.</p>
<p>I feel that kids should take all for granted so that when they do the same for their kids, they do not expect much in return and will not get frustrated. However, after saying that, we greatly appreciate our D’s decision to take full tuition scholarship at state school instea of applying to some Elite college. She continues to maintain 4.0 at college and getting more Merit $$ for it. In appreciation for her hard work, we told her that we will continue supporting her financially thru Medical School, hopefully she will get in.</p>