<p>Agree 100% with Soozievt. </p>
<p>I think you’ll limit open communication if you do silly dances. My 21 yr old told me a story about her best friend today. The friend had not told her parents a good friend had been suspended from their college after a drug incident. Her parents found out and were upset they had not been told. But these are parents who do silly dances over alcohol, sex, everything. Their DD tells them nothing yet the parents think they’re close.</p>
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<p>First, just to clarify the shared bedroom perspective I posted earlier…the reason I would allow them to share a bedroom in my home is not just because I know they do that in their own city, but also because I do not disapprove of their sleeping together. In other words, it is not ONLY because “well they do it anyway when they are away from home,” but because I’m also OK with the fact that young adults (beyond high school) sleep together when in an ongoing relationship. </p>
<p>Likewise, I know my kids had drinks in college. I do not disapprove of that (though never allowed it in high school). If they came home from college, they were allowed to drink in our home. We did not host parties here or anything like that. Again, the reason I allowed them to have a drink in our home during the college years was not ONLY due to the fact that I was aware that they had drinks in college, but I also did not disapprove of it. </p>
<p>Likewise, I had sex and drank when I was in college. OK, the drinking age was 18, but still. I also got married the summer after my soph year at age 20!</p>
<p>PS, my youngest D was not of legal drinking age until past college graduation. (graduated at age 20)</p>
<p>I’ll leave with a couple of thoughts:</p>
<p>I checked with my wife. On our first visit, her mother asked her whether she’d be more comfortable sleeping separately or together. She said, you can blame me if you would prefer to sleep separately. My wife chose sleeping together. </p>
<p>I think when this situation arises with son’s gf, I will ask my wife to ask the gf what would make her most comfortable. She’d do it more gracefully than I. Not to be sexist, I’d probably feel forced to ask daughter’s bf, but I suspect that I know the answer in that case.</p>
<p>nicksmtmom, I have to agree with Starbright. I admired my wife’s family and was delighted to marry into it. I think many kids would be delighted to marry into mine.</p>
<p>I’m not suggesting you apologize for your morals (although you shouldn’t assume that others share the same definition of morality as you). But, what are the morals you are sticking up for? I’m suggesting that you be CLEAR and HONEST about them. If you believe that premarital sex is immoral, say that you prohibit it in your house. Don’t go for DADT. Will you do that? There is nothing particularly moral or honest about DADT as far as I can see, although I’m open to hearing why DADT is the moral choice here.</p>
<p>How many of you who suggested that the OP put the girl in the guest room because it would make them uncomfortable would say, “You cannot have your gf or bf here if you have premarital sex with them?” If not, why not?</p>
<p>I would offer my kids alcohol in my home, and I believe it is legal to do that. The illegality of offering other kids alcohol if they are underage does change things for me. I do think that the drinking age we set does create problems. In Canada, where the drinking age is lower, they have much less of a problem with binge drinking among college students than we do in the US. I don’t think where society draws the age line on drinking is a moral one, but a prudential one. Do you think that serving a 19 year old a glass of wine raises moral issues? If not, it is not clear the analogy sheds that much light on the earlier issue.</p>
<p>For the record, I wasn’t one who advocated DADT, but I think DADT is exactly a choice- really what the kids do when we go to bed is beyond our control, much as it is when they are away from home. </p>
<p>Through very honest two-way discussions my son knows that we would not approve of pre-marital sex in our home, and so the gf would not be allowed to share his room…I am sure he would know not to even ask. Will I sit in the hallway with a rolling pin to make sure it doesn’t happen? Certainly not. But I would hope he would respect our wishes.</p>
<p>The alcohol thing was an honest question, not an analogy…</p>
<p>My son’s girlfriend is visiting right now and they are in separate bedrooms. Nobody requested to sleep together and I’m not suggesting it. If they were out of college and supporting themselves and they lived together, then I would put them together but they are juniors in college and we still consider them kids. I see nothing wrong with having DADT hypocrisy going on if it makes everybody happy.</p>
<p>I personally wouldn’t have a problem with it but that doesn’t mean I don’t have a “conscience”, nor does it mean I’m immoral! </p>
<p>Anyway, I do understand that apart from whatever stand you take on this, there’s the squeamishness factor. Just as no one wants to hear their parents having sex, no one wants to hear their kids either. However, in my experience, this is a non-issue—believe me, there is no kid who could stand to be overheard by their parents!</p>
<p>We didn’t allow “sleepovers” with our S & his GF, because our HS age D was still in the house. It was a symbolic stand more than anything else, of what, I’m not really sure because I’m not against pre-marital sex at all, but I just wasn’t comfortable with it, mostly because of D’s presence. As with most things, by the time the issue came up with his younger sister, I’d become less concerned with taking that stand and allowed her to have her BF stay with her in her room. Both of my kids (& their GF/BF’s) have been very respectful around H & me, so this has made it easier. </p>
<p>I say that the OP (and anybody else) has a right to establish expectations of behavior in their home, no matter the age of the child. It’s good for children to respect boundaries, even when they’re grown!</p>
<p>nicksmtmom, I know that DADT was jrpar’s suggestion and I respect your clear and stated feelings that premarital sex is not allowed. </p>
<p>However, I agree with mousegray’s discomfort with the implication of your statement that people who didn’t share your discomfort didn’t have consciences and were not moral. If so, how do those of you who feel premarital sex is immoral deal with your kids and their SO’s who are having premarital sex? It’s your kid who is engaging in the behavior that is not moral (although with some probability not in your home). </p>
<p>I don’t expect parents up at night with rolling pins, but the DADT comments from some of the other posters seem to a large extent different – “I know it’s probably happening but as long as I don’t know about, it’s better than if I confront it directly.” To me, not talking about things that are uncomfortable does not lead to better outcomes. </p>
<p>We in the US have, at a political level, a penchant for puritanical proclamations which we sometimes turn into law. Yet, we don’t walk the talk. The failure to deal with the underlying reality of behavior does not lead to better outcomes and can lead to worse ones. The drinking age is an example. I’d venture to guess that a higher percentage of parents in red states would share your view that premarital sex is immoral than would parents in the blue states. So you might guess that by teaching their kids the proper values, red state parents would get more “moral” behavior. Does it surprise you to learn that the rates of teen pregnancy are significantly higher in red states than blue ones? How about divorce? Viewership of Desperate Housewives? Viewership of internet porn. Speaking of old fashioned values, a New Scientist article summarizing a paper by Ben Edelson in the Journal of Economic Literature on who purchases internet porn, said, “States where a majority of residents agreed with the statement ‘I have old-fashioned values about family and marriage,’ bought 3.6 more subscriptions per thousand people than states where a majority disagreed.” It’s not clear that inculcating the old fashioned attitude you mentioned leads to the behavior you’d hope to see. There’s more going on here, but I think that if one wants to affect behavior, it is important to walk the talk and not just talk it (this is not directed to you, nicksmtmom, but is a more general comment).</p>
<p>When we were growing up, there was NEVER any question of any friend of the other sex staying in a bedroom with any of us until after the wedding. That will likely be the rule in our household, tho the issue has never yet arisen. When the kids are with close cousins & friends, the whole bunch will all sleep together (mixed genders), but otherwise, don’t see any point in my being uncomfortable about sleeping arrangements in my own home, nor did my folks.</p>
<p>Oh my god, you people are still living in the middle ages. They probably will not even do anything and even if they want to, you can’t stop it by separating them. It’s like you believe that letting them sleep in the same bed is gonna make them the devil. My parents let my first girlfriend sleep over when 16 and we’re still together 4 years later. If my parents would have made it impossible to be together alone without someone watching out every move, I dont think we’d still be together just because of lack of freedom.</p>
<p>I know lots of people disagree with me, and are fine with this. That’s what makes the world go around.</p>
<p>My original comments about “conscience” were directed at people who say they felt uncomfortable, but couldn’t quite put their finger on why. Someone suggested it was not morals, but social mores…I am saying, where do you think those social boundaries came from? From moral standards. As does most people’s feeling of “discomfort” when these boundaries are crossed. But it is so “old fashioned” to say so. I say, if you have those standards, own them and quit apologizing.</p>
<p>Listen, my current “halo” wasn’t always in place…and the one I have now is a little rusty, too. But I won’t ever feel comfortable getting rid of the rules altogether. Whether I did it, you did it, mom did it…I don’t think it is hypocritical to strive for the moral ideal.</p>
<p>Golly. I consider myself to be a person with morals, and a conscience, and I don’t think that allowing unmarried people to sleep together in my home is at odds with that in any way. But it’s the OP’s home - you have the right to set any limitations you’d like. </p>
<p>You know they’re having sex, but you don’t want to make it easy for them in your house. Or maybe you want them to know you disapprove, or don’t want to seem to be giving them permission. So they’ll have to use the car or the basement or the bathroom or wait until you go out or even go a few days without, all of which is feasible. You can place limits on where they have sex, but not whether they’ll have it. I don’t see this as a moral issue because I think of morality as a concept that’s only tangentially related to sex. But if your conscience is at ease because they’re sleeping in different rooms, there’s no reason why you shouldn’t be comfortable in your own home.</p>
<p>Re this being “old-fashioned” - 35 years ago, I used to visit dh every other weekend when he still lived with his parents. His mom put a cot in his room for me to sleep on and told me that she trusted me not to let anything happen because she knew I was a good girl. Well, not. She recently told me that she hoped my oldest d wasn’t having sex with her fiance - although they’ve been living together for a year, and she knows it. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>“It’s my house” is tough to argue with. In my house, I don’t care as long as it’s a serious, mutually caring relationship.</p>
<p>I agree it is up to the parents to determine what is appropriate in their own household. There are always factors that are different for everyone (younger siblings in the house for instance). </p>
<p>Here’s what we decided. We were very strict with DS in HS. No friends of either sex over to the house when there was not an adult home. He violated it once and there were severe repercussions. He was dating a girl the summer before he left for college and we did not leave them alone. We were not stupid, we just felt at that age it was asking for trouble. They agreed without a problem. </p>
<p>Fast forward a year. DS started dating a wonderful young woman at the start of the 2nd semester Freshman year. We could see this was very different. Her home was several states away so she came home with him for short breaks. Stayed in his room, DS got a couch. </p>
<p>DS and I have a pretty open relationship. I knew they were being very responsible. DS made it clear that they were serious and that they loved each other. Parents were introduced, we know the GF very well. </p>
<p>We knew that they were spending 90% of waking and non-waking hours together when school started again. They told us this. The next time they came to stay with us for a few days I told my DS that we did not want to be hypocrites so sleeping arrangement were now up to them and what they felt comfortable with. They stay in the same room now. They also have moved in together and and have talked about marriage. </p>
<p>For us this was fine. They respected our rules and we kept the communication lines open. They are pretty open with us about their relationship and in turn we treat them as adults. </p>
<p>I have no worries about them “doing anything” while here. It was a bit strange the first night when they went to bed. I have to confess that there have been a couple times when we have needed to wake them. I could not do it. But the reason was out of respect for the young lady. My wife woke them up. </p>
<p>They have stayed at the GF parents house. Always separate rooms. They totally accepted this. Although the last visit her parents put their bags in one room and nothing was ever said. Different strokes. </p>
<p>If heaven forbid this relationship does not work out and DS brought another GF home we would put her in the guest room. I guess our line is that they have to be in a serious, committed relationship.</p>
<p>This is interesting…I see most NO’s came from the Mom’s perspective? What about Dad’s opinion?</p>
<p>I am a dad of an 18-year-old college bound student. He has no GF right now. It would be interesting to see how this is dealt with at our house. Since I have not personally being put into the position for making such a decision, I don’t know what it would be. My current gut feel is to ask my son to consider standing in our shoes, as he will be a parent in a few years…</p>
<p>I am a Dad and posted our feelings a couple posts ago.</p>
<p>Just saw it, as I was existing my post. I agree with your post. THX for sharing.
I see more objections raising by the Mom’s than from Dad. May be I am wrong. But dad’s are more objective and cool-headed on S or D’s relationships. My wife will more likely to freak out on issues like this. I respect everyone’s decision. But I think kids over 18 should be given more freedom to make their own decision. They may not be making good ones 100% of the time. Making mistake is part of growing up. Obviously, parents are always there to ensure that kids make mistakes in a relatively “safe” environment.</p>
<p>I think part of my discomfort comes from the fact that I haven’t even met this girl, that they have only been dating a short time, that he is barely 20 (I mistyped when I said 21 although I don’t think it matters), and that he caught me off guard by even asking.</p>
<p>I think I agree with Izzie. If he were older, if he lived on his own, if they had been going out longer, then I think I would feel different. </p>
<p>What if my son didn’t have a girlfriend and was out one night and brought a girl home to stay in his room - is that okay? Why not? Is a “committed relationship” the threshold they must meet and how do you determine what that means?</p>
<p>My wife was a bit more conservative about this than I was, which is ironic since I was the one that put down the no friends in the house without a parent home rule in HS. I suspect some of the issue was a small bit of jealousy of the GF. It was very obvious they were serious and I think there was a bit of “taking my baby away” syndrome happening. Wife has gotten over that and gets along with GF extremely well. </p>
<p>I have often wondered if my decision would have the same if DS was female. I’m honestly not sure. GFs Dad has had a tough time with this and I understand why.</p>
<p>kxc, I’m a dad as well and my earlier responses make my position reasonably clear.</p>
<p>For us the committed relationship threshold was that they had been together for >6 months and that my DS told me how he felt about her. She also told us her feelings and her parents were told. I flat out asked my DS if they were heading towards marriage and he said yes. We have a very open relationship. </p>
<p>Honestly it was a gut feeling too. I know DS and saw this was very different and that he meant what he was saying. There are no guarantees, but we think they have a real shot so we are supportive and they are adults. They live together just the two of them and have signed a lease, etc. For all intents they are married just no piece of paper or party. That is committed to us. </p>
<p>Random girl we did not know? No way. Casually dating for a couple months? No way. I should also say that GF has been very open with us and we know her extremely well.</p>
<p>I wasn’t going to chime in, but I will, because I am in the minority, and I want to add my vote. I have no problem with it. My daughter brought her boyfriend home, and I was glad to have him over. He makes her happy after a long and painful break up (enough time has gone by, it’s not a rebound…). They are both over 21 and they spend nights together at school. I have known this for a while, and it really doesn’t bother me. Or my husband, which is the real surprise!!</p>