<p>Same here, zoosermom - not offended, just scared. Besides, JHS, the OP asked for opinions. I offered mine. She doesn’t have to follow it. And I don’t care that it’s Rome; I wouldn’t let a kid of mine, on my dime during my vacation, do what he’s proposing in New York, Chicago, or Boston either. One rule is still, Never Alone. Always have someone with you watching your back while you watch his/hers.</p>
<p>Does the name Natalee Holloway ring any bells?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I feel the same way. I wouldn’t pay money for my child to risk his life. If he spoke the language and was familiar with the area, I might feel differently, but he doesn’t and that’s unsafe in any city. I also think the whole scenario is spectacularly disrespectful to his mother. Perhaps she could contact the parents of gays and lesbians organization (PFLAG) and ask for assistance? I think this is so reckless as to warrant further discussion and investigation.</p>
<p>I’d also like to point out that crime against gays doesn’t arouse the anger that crime against other groups does, and there are people who not only wouldn’t help a gay man, but would feel that he got what he deserved. If my son was gay, I’d tell him to be more careful than common sense dictates simply because he’s gay.</p>
<p>OP-
I’m shaking my head. This is the time to teach your son about being SAFE, ANYWHERE.</p>
<p>This is not a sexual orientation issue. Would you let your inexperienced-with-alcohol, 18 year old daughter go out to bars ALONE in a strange new foreign country/city where she doesn’t speak the language with the intention of meeting men? Your son is heading off to college, and he has some odd ideas of what is safe. You need to talk. </p>
<p>Some rules of the road
<p>You have had some excellent suggestions about places to go and meet young people and hang out. Not only are these probably safer, but they are also the very same kinds of things that you would want him to seek out to find companions (as opposed to drinking alone in bars) when he heads off to college.</p>
<p>Also, as other posters have said, if my any of kids gave me the kind of “I’ll go where I want to” speech that you have described, about a trip to Europe that I was paying for, they would quickly find out that such an attitude was incompatible with the trip, and that either the attitude would be adjusted or the trip would be. </p>
<p>Good luck. I hope you work this out and have a wonderful time with your son.</p>
<p>Lived in Italy for years - I wouldn’t advise going anywhere, anytime (daylight or dark) without using the buddy system. If I were the mom in this situation I’d insist on going w/ him. If he doesn’t like that idea, then encourage him to pay for his own trip later on.</p>
<p>As a “friend”, I’d never let anyone I know venture out in a foreign country alone, particularly if s/he were a young & inexperienced “tourist”. Way too many unfortunate things can happen.</p>
<p>I would predict that once y’all set foot in Italy/Rome, he won’t WANT to execute his plan. It’s quite daunting the first time you visit, especilly the bars & especially on one’s own.</p>
<p>So - I’d probably let him fantasize about it until we got there (not encouraging tho’ - I’d probabaly say something like, “Just wait until you get there to decide if that’s something you really want to do” and make a joke about going along). Then when we got there, if he still wanted to go, that’s when I’d insist on going too.</p>
<p>You’re not just his mom, you’re his travel companion - that means watching out for eachother. Buddy system ALWAYS, esp. at night.</p>
<p>“This is not a sexual orientation issue.” Exactly. And lots of other common sense advice here too re: “what are you thinking?”</p>
<p>pafather, your post is out of line.</p>
<p>Please reread (or read, since it is not apparent that you actually did read) the opening post.</p>
<p>Earlier this year, my little sister visited me in Europe. I’m a major homebody when it comes to my evenings, but she loves going out. She was very, very into the idea of discovering European nightlife, with or without me, and was particularly interested in doing so in Paris (with extremely limited French). For three weeks, I kept that girl so busy during the day that she was too exhausted to ever want to dress up and head back out at night. Even after I conceded and said I’d humor her, it didn’t pan out. Like your son, she’s the absent-minded type, and I did make it clear that we were not going anywhere without a solid plan, and that since this was not really my “thing”, I was not going to be the one to figure out the details. Unsurprisingly, she never sat down long enough to come up with the plan. Seeing other people going out at night, she also realized that the scene was a lot less exotic than she’d been envisioning. So between mutual exhaustion, her own absent-mindedness, a dose of reality, and the freezing cold weather (nasty Italian heat might work in your favor!), this became a non-issue. Meanwhile, I compromised in other areas, like taking her out for drinks. In the end, between how much we’d packed in, my compromising in areas she hadn’t expected me to, and her own slight change of heart, she didn’t end up feeling like she’d missed out on anything. </p>
<p>Obviously, mine was a very different situation, and where you and your son are concerned, it makes more sense to come to a solid agreement before getting to Rome. Just wanted to offer my own experience to remind you that whatever your son is thinking of is likely much more appealing in theory than it will be in practice…something he might realize once he’s hot, exhausted, stuffed to the gills with pasta, sick of crowds, and unable to understand the language around him. You have more than every right in the world to be concerned, but if your son has never been the type to say “You can’t stop me” and slam a door in your face, he probably won’t use this vacation to start (I know the attitude is as problematic as the actual action, but from his perspective, if you can pull an “I’ll cancel the trip” bluff, he may as well try his luck with a “You can’t stop me”). </p>
<p>It sounds like you and your son have an excellent relationship, and odds are that you’ll work this out just fine. Best of luck :)</p>
<p>ETA: Cross post with bz2010, among others.</p>
<p>The thing that’s missing from the analogies to the 18-yr-old girl going out to meet men is that this kid is gay. !8-yr-old girls have been able to date and conduct a social life comfortably and with full societal approval–including that of their peers in HS–for years. That is very likely not true for a gay teen. </p>
<p>So it is understandable that the idea of this kind of freedom has gone to his head a bit. </p>
<p>The most important thing is his safety (physical and emotional). Frankly, I’d be much more concerned about his being seduced by someone when his judgment was impaired by unaccustomed alcohol and infected with HIV than being pick-pocketed or the like. Calmom has given you lots of great links to what sound like more suitable venues than just cruising random bars, especially the youth groups.</p>
<p>I would go for the a) give him taxi fare, b) agree where he is going to go and when he will be back at the hotel, and c) convince him that you are prepared to go drag him out of there if necessary. And make sure he has condoms, even if he doesn’t plan to use them. I’d rather be safe than sorry. I’ve lost too many friends to AIDS and kids think they are immortal. </p>
<p>You might want to look into PFLAG and get some advice from them. Parents there will have been through this before. Another possibility is one of the organizations that supports kids who are coming out…maybe Outright? They have also been in his place before, and can give him advice that he might actually listen to.</p>
<p>Do you have any idea how hot Rome is at that time of the year? After a day of sightseeing, your son will probably just want to hang out by a pool somewhere – or in your air conditioned hotel. I say this in agreement with Student615’s post – kids sometimes have big plans, and abandon them just as quickly when reality hits 
(Which doesn’t mean you shouldn’t talk with him about boundries you both can agree on.)</p>
<p>That’s true. We were in Spain with our kids last September. We would have been perfectly fine with them going out alone at night. They never did – by the time dinner was over, they were ready for bed.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t let an 18-year-old straight boy do this to meet girls in a strange city where he doesn’t speak the language and has no experience with drinking. The whole idea is creepy.</p>
<p>If I were taking any of my sons on a vacation with me, it would be a time together type of thing. I would be insulted and considered it rude if he told me he was going out to “cruise”. The same with my brothers who are middle aged adults. I don’ t look at it as a safety or gay issue, but plain ol’ manners and consdieration.</p>
<p>My husband had this problem with oldest son a few years ago when he and some of my boys went to the Superbowl. Son wanted to go to some parties instead of sticking with the family. H told him that this was a G-rated family trip and not a time to go out solo. As an adult, of course son could go where he wanted, (he was >21), but in terms of courtesy and the purpose of the trip, it was not what his benefactor wanted.</p>
<p>You know, I’ve been thinking about this some more, and I realized that when I was his age, back in the 70s, I went out at night to bars and clubs in London with my cousin, who was about 4 or 5 years older. </p>
<p>I did exactly what he said he wants to do: I had a few [weak] drinks, I sometimes danced a little, and I talked to guys and flirted a little. That’s it. It really is not necessarily that big a deal. </p>
<p>The problem in his case is that he will be alone. I don’t see anything wrong with letting him stretch his wings a little bit. Why not let him go to the youth-oriented thing Calmom found, with taxi money and a strict curfew? You can spend a few hours with a good book. I don’t see this as creepy or rude. It’s part of the experience.</p>
<p>LOTS of walking to do in Rome - he’ll be worn out by the end of the day.</p>
<p>Plus - the dinner hour runs so late that it will be getting close to 11:00 by the time you’re done eating.</p>
<p>All things considered, what I said earlier & was corroborated by other posts -I’d be surprized if he really wants for follow thru w/ his plan.</p>
<p>Good opportunity to have some talks about safety & judgement tho’.
Good luck!</p>
<p>Consolation, two differences - 1) you weren’t alone (as you pointed out) and 2) you knew the language (at least most of it!)</p>
<p>^ Third difference - times were different in the '70s. Students went backpacking all over Europe on their own too. Today, with the economic hardships and so forth, new families of hard drugs etc., there is a much higher risk for crime, especially towards obvious visitors, in any city, including in the US.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he wants to go through with his plan, no matter the heat, etc. He’s a kid with great reserves of stamina, like most, I presume. If I were taking my hypothetical daughter on a trip to Rome, and she expressed a desire for heterosexual “experience” of the kind the OP’s son related, I would be horrified. I think this boy is taking advantage of his Mom’s perceived liberalism in this area big time and/or is testing boundaries. I think pafather was absolutely correct that the boy should be taken down a few pegs, even putting aside safety issues (and no, the OP is not being “overprotective” in the least). Just my personal opinion.</p>
<p>
This was my reaction when I read through the post. He’ll have the target in several different ways - </p>
<ul>
<li><p>As an obvious tourist out alone at night in a city he doesn’t know possibly accidentally ending up in not the best areas of town - an easy victim of crime.</p></li>
<li><p>As an obvious target to be taken advantage of by older and more experienced people once he gets to his bars.</p></li>
<li><p>As a potential victim for predators who sometimes hang out at gay bars looking for victims to rob/assault.</p></li>
</ul>
<p>What he wants to do has red flags all over it.</p>
<p>What? I can’t believe some parents go as far as suggesting OP to cancel the trip. Next year, her son will go to college. When is the chance that they both go on a trip together? Probably very low.<br>
OP’s son is not having risky business in some shaddy back alley. He just wants to have some fun. Spare him 2 hours a night and let him be.</p>
<p>I absolutely can’t imagine my son asking to cruise bars alone in foreign country when on a planned trip with me - even if he was 25 or 35. It’s just not right. As I see it, it would be our time together and I would expect that we would both do our best to find common activities that we enjoy. Sightseeing, eating at great restaurants, maybe some hiking, perhaps watching a movie in the evening. He can go with his buddies on another trip and cruise bars… on his own dime.
I wouldn’t cancel the trip…but I would point out what the expectations are. I also wouldn’t wait until you go and “hope” that he’s too tired to go through with his plans. I would just tell him I’m very uncomfortable with the idea, - and if he still insists, maybe a trip somewhere else makes more sense - perhaps somewhere less urban. I would also point out that it’s not an issue of being gay - it’s just what you expect from your son as a travel partner. He’ll have many years to do the “wild thing” on his own time.</p>