Spending the Night Out

curiousmother · June 20, 2007, 12:27am

My D, who just finished her freshman year in H.S. and will be turning 15 in three days, has been questioning my disapproval of spend-the-night parties. I went to a seminar several years ago where the speaker (a well-respected teen counselor) said her policy is that once kids start driving, there should be no spending the night out. I cannot remember her exact reasons, but my gut tells me she is right. Some of my D’s friends are now starting to drive and I need some ammunition to back up my stance.

What are your thoughts on this? My D is very social and has thus far given me no reason not to trust her. She knows that drinking is unacceptable and non-negotiable and assures me that she will not drink, but some of her friends have started drinking already.

PackMom · June 20, 2007, 12:37am

We allowed S1 to spend the night out all through high school. After high school graduation, we found out a lot of extracurricular activity went on that we were not happy about.

We started out letting S2 spend nights out (he gave us the whole not fair having to suffer for the sins of the bro. line) but the first time he turned up at a party he shouldn’t have been at, we put a stop to spending nights out.
He doesn’t even ask anymore because he knows the answer will be NO.

Not saying your D would do anything wrong but many nights when S2 gets home, he has told me that groups of girls often call up the guys and get them to come pick them up or meet them somewhere. Not saying anything bad/illegal is going on, just that it happens.

blucroo · June 20, 2007, 12:44am

The only spend-the-night parties I allowed my D to attend were

<ol>
<li> All girls</li>
<li> I spoke directly with the parent before and was assured that
-only girls; any boys at the party were to leave by “curfew”
-supervised at all times by the parents
-no alchohol of any kind
-no coming and going by the kids, especially those who drive</li>
<li> I took my D and I picked her up in the morning.</li>
</ol>

For Prom, we actually hosted the after prom party at my home. I made very clear the rules and expected every parent to call me before so that they knew what the rules were and that if their S/D broke the rules, I would be calling them to come get the guilty one. 
Couples came directly from prom. I collected keys at the door; gave everyone a big hug (to smell their breath); No alcohol was anywhere to be found. I set up plenty of food and D arranged for DVD’s and other things to do. we prohibited any going into bedrooms or closing of doors;
I was in and out of the room, unannounced at random intervals all night; Kids brought clothes to change into and pillows/sleeping bags/blankets. By about 4 am the entire group was asleep on every couch, chair, cushion, sleeping bag; There was a minor amount of “snuggling” but all were clearly visible and fully clothed.

kristin5792 · June 20, 2007, 12:52am

from a recent high school grad:

my parents let me spend the night out for all of high school. i didn’t abuse this privilege (until recently…which i shouldn’t have done, now feel guilty about, and have since stopped lying to my parents about where i was spending the night) so it was never taken away from me.

most (freshman and sophomore especially) sleepovers are pretty harmless. they’re all pretty similar too–stay up late, talk about boys/crushes/sex, gossip about girls/boys/school/teachers, give each other some (probably inaccruate) advice, eat, sleep. repeat x every weekend for a few years.

personally, i didn’t drink until summer after sophomore year…and that summer i only drank a small handful of times. yes, you’re right–it is easier to drink at a sleepover. but realistically, very very few people get completely hammered at a slumber party. my friends and i would experiment with drinking at slumber parties (what’s the best way to take a shot? how long does it take to finish a beer? do i like to mix or chase?) then quit before we really even felt it. it’s a bad idea for sure, but at least we weren’t going anywhere.

as per the above poster, i would agree that my friends and i would occasionally sneak out of the house and meet up with some boys. we would never spend much time with them (we’d be way too nervous about getting caught) and certainly never invited them back with us. trust me…it doesn’t look good when a mom catches a few boys leaving an all-girls slumber party! i would disagree that this happens frequently. it’s just too risky especially with vigilant parents.

i have friends that were forbidden to spend the night out. this caused a lot of resentment and hostility in their families. if they were occasionally allowed to sleep out, they’d end up being really irresponsible and doing things they wouldn’t normally do. then they’d get grounded again and be even more restricted from their friends which would cause them to rebel even more–a very bad cycle to start.

if i were a parent now, i would start by talking to my daughter. freshman year is a great time to start talking to her because high school is just starting and hasn’t become too academicaly or socially stressful yet. calmly tell her your expectations and the reasons behind them. give her some examples of consequences and make sure those consequences fit the crime. for example “kristin, you know about our family’s alcohol policy. you have been very responsible thus far so you will still be allowed to make your own choices, but i want you to know how some of your behavior will be handled. if i find out that you have been drinking at a party, you will not be allowed to go to parties until you have demonstrated your maturity again. there’s a catch though. if you are ever at a party and there’s drinking, regardless of who’s doing it, if you or your friends feel uncomfortable you can call me and i will pick you up. if you call me, you will show that you are mature and responsible and therefore you will not get in trouble. you are always safe in coming to me.”

bottom line? let her spend the night out and only start restricting this privilege if she abuses it. sleepovers are a great way to get to know your friends and a really fun aspect of high school–i’m sure your daughter would be very upset if she couldn’t take part in it.

all the best,
kristin

teriwtt · June 20, 2007, 1:08am

I don’t quite understand a hard and fast rule of no sleepovers, but there are a few things to keep in mind.

One, if it was my kid sleeping at someone’s house, I made sure the parents were aware these were the plans. Because, two, sometimes kids will say they’re sleeping at so-and-so’s house and then spend the night somewhere whose parents aren’t quite as involved as I’d prefer for my kid. So that can take care of the saying I’m going to sleep somewhere, but they end up somewhere else. I’ve even had my kids call me from the friend’s land line, because with caller ID, I know at some point they’ve at least been at that person’s house.

I will say we’ve had a couple of times where friends told their parents they were sleeping at our house, but went somewhere else. Then the parents called the next morning, and I had to tell them their kid had never been at my house.

Also, regarding taking keys… the kids have learned to beat that one. They can hand over a set of keys, but have another set stashed in their pockets/purse/sleeping bag, etc., so it’s not safe-proof.

If she’s so set on having sleepovers (and they are fun), try hosting them at your house a few times so you can see what goes on, and check your own comfort level of a particular group of kids staying overnight together. There have been a couple of times when my daughters wanted to go to sleepovers, but couldn’t because the friend had cats (my kids are very allergic to them), so it was my excuse to say, “To solve everyone’s problem, why don’t you guys do it over here.” If they’re truly genuine about just wanting to hang out and have fun (no tricky business going on), then they’ll usually take any house that has a lot of food, a TV/DVD player, an accessible computer (they absolutely can’t go without checking their facebook/xanga/myspace for more than four hours!).

berurah · June 20, 2007, 2:05am

curiousmother~

I have to say that I have personally never had reservations about my kids spending the night out with friends. That is probably because the friends that they like enough to spend the night with are the ones who are most like them and who enjoy/take part in the same kinds of activities that they do.

My kids hung in groups that were not into partying or drinking, and very few of their friends drank at all. The ones who did were not as close friends and typically drank with other groups when they did drink.

Ironically enough, as my kids got older and got more general freedom (with drivers’ licenses), they didn’t have as much desire to spend the night out. I don’t think that my oldest two ever WANTED to spend the night out during their last two years of h.s. My third child spends the night out frequently (she’ll be a h.s. junior next year), but it’s always with the same two girls, and I’m very well acquainted with the parents (plus one of the girls is two grades below her and one is one grade below her).

All that said, if I knew that some of my kids’ friends were beginning to drink (and if this is something I thought they’d do at a sleepover), I would have to think twice about the arrangements. In that case, I’d most likely make the rule that my kid would have to spend the night only with families that I knew and trusted.

As teriwtt points out, you can always offer to host the sleepovers until you get an idea of what exactly the girls are wanting to do. My girls tend to just talk (ALL NIGHT!!!), eat a bunch of junk food, watch movies, play karaoke or American Idol on the PS2, and text or chat with their other friends on the computer…all in all pretty innocent fun.

My parenting philosophy includes the idea of outright banning as FEW things as possible. I think that when you ban something, it becomes all the more enticing, so I never make arbitrary rules that are illogical for fear of them backfiring. The only non-negotiable rules I’ve made have to do with the health and welfare of my kids and also of others’ kids. For example, NO drinking or drugging, and needless to say, none of that while driving either. I have also been non-negotiable on driving safety rules (seatbelts, music at a reasonable level, no cell phone while driving, etc.). The rest of the stuff I dole out according to level of trust and general personal conduct, and thus far, my kids have been extremely trustworthy and have never disappointed me when I have placed my faith in them.

My advice is to really get to know the group of girls with whom your daughter wishes to sleep over, and if you have reservations about the behavior of any of them, discuss this with your daughter. I have had to do this, particularly when certain kids have “latched onto” certain kids of mine. My kids have always been very receptive of my opinions/input on those matters.

I guess the bottom line for ME would be this:

It seems that you DO have faith in your D to make good decisions. If you don’t give her the chance to in small, incremental steps, she won’t get to put that into practice. BUT, always keep the dialog open about what her friends are doing.

I just thought of one more thing: My kids have all been VERY open with me about the behavior of their friends/acquaintances. The reason they are is because unless I have VERY good reason, I do NOT penalize my kids for having a friend who occasionally has made bad choices. For example, my son knew a few kids who drank during their senior year of h.s., even though my son chose not to drink at ALL in h.s. I did NOT say to him, “OH…if they’re going to drink, you shouldn’t be friends with them.” Instead, I said, “I think that so-and-so is not making a very good choice right now for these reasons…” My kids respected and appreciated that.

Fact is, by college, I became acquaintances with MANY people who made different choices with regard to alcohol/drugs than I did, but I was comfortable enough to make my own decisons and stand by them.

You will not always be able to isolate your child from those who make different choices from her, but you CAN instruct/encourage/support her in making wise choices for herself.

Best of luck with your decision!!

~berurah

curiousmother · June 20, 2007, 9:10am

Dear All,

Thank you for all the great advice! Your insights (especially Berurah’s) are just what I need to have a the necessary conversations about sleep outs with my D!! I’m just going to have to take a deep breath and let her spread her wings. One thing that worries me is that, since she goes to a private HS, her friends are spread out all over the county and all that driving scares me. Also, aside from the parents I already knew from her grade school, I have found it difficult to really get to know all the new parents. But I absolutely agree that communicating with the parents is a great idea!

Also, good advice about having some of the sleepovers over here to get the general feel for them.

snowball · June 20, 2007, 10:10am

I haven’t read all the above posts, but both my kids slept out often as well as had friends at our home. My daughter usually slept at her best friends home or the friends spent the night at out home several weekends a month. This was just a nice way for the kids to chill on a weekend without going anywhere. Maybe you are talking more of large group sleepovers; I still don’t have a problem if my kids were at their friends houses. Now if they all of a sudden wanted to sleep at a home of a child that was not a good friend, I might think twice.

My kids have been spending the night out at friends houses since they were 3!! My daughter loved to stay at her friends house; she would be on a play date and I would get a call from the mother asking if she could stay the night. Or she would have a friend over and the mom would come to pick the girl up only to find the girls had decided to sleep together and the mom would drive home without her daughter. I do miss those early years of sleepovers!!

chocoholic · June 20, 2007, 10:59am

curiousmother, is your daughter driving already at 15?

I feel that it’s all about knowing who your children’s friends are. And we have done this by having an open door policy, where friends walk in anytime, eat a meal, hangout in the basement, sleepover etc. We are comfortable with these kids who we have known for several years, and our kids freely sleep over at their homes too.

I do view sleepovers slightly differently from all-night parties though. Sleepovers, to me, are a few friends who get together to watch movies, play games, munch their way through the night. Parties can possibly have large guest lists + those who crash; one never knows what to expect, and my kids have called me for rides home (at age 15) from parties that were spiralling out of control.

When my kids were younger, and I dropped them off to parties, I always made it a point to go to the door, say Hi to the adults, thank them for having kids over etc. This resulted in finding out once, that there were no adults at home, and we politely declined and came home.

berurah · June 20, 2007, 12:25pm

curiousmother~

I can TOTALLY understand these concerns. When each of my kids made that transition from the “known” territory of elementary school to the more wide-ranging territory of the upper schools, it was really unnerving for me, and I must admit that I had a couple of uncomfortable moments. I know that in those times I made many good judgment calls but also a bad one or two inadvertently.

When my oldest was in 6th or 7th grade, a kid I didn’t know from his school invited him to spend the night. I spoke with the mom on the phone, and there were a few red flags to me. I know this is bad, but I drove by the boy’s house, and when I saw quite a few adults in the front yard guzzling beer from bottles, I made my final decision. My son, who was mildly annoyed at the time, bothered to thank me later because he said that as he got to know that kid better, he found out the kid was in all kinds of trouble at school.

When your kids are young, their friendships/relationships are, to some degree, dependent upon YOUR relationships with the parents because the kids are young enough that all arrangements HAVE to go through the parents…not just the kids. As your kids get older, though, they begin to conduct their own relationships independent of you, so you don’t generally have the opportunity to get to know the other parents as well. That is when it becomes especially important to foster the open, trusting relationship with your own child. When she gets older, your child will often provide the only glimpse into the friendships she has developed.

Please realize that even the most loving, caring, responsible parent will NOT be able to shield her child from everything that is out there. Even GOOD kids, even your child’s FRIENDS, may make bad choices from time to time. The most important thing is that you instill in your child the knowledge that she is NOT at the mercy of ANYONE else, including her friends, and that is always within her power to make the best decisons for HERSELF.

About the driving~ That is a big concern for me too. Thankfully, my newest driver is the oldest in her age group, and if anyone drives, it is she. She had an enormous amount of experience driving with me over a full year, and I have become quite confident in her abilities. I remain, though, very picky about the kids with whom I allow her to RIDE. I think that teen driving is about the most stressful and anxiety-ridden element of parenting for me so far!!! :eek:

~berurah

curiousmother · June 20, 2007, 3:44pm

“The most important thing is that you instill in your child the knowledge that she is NOT at the mercy of ANYONE else, including her friends, and that is always within her power to make the best decisons for HERSELF.”

Berurah, I am going to print this out (with your permission ), tape it to my bathroom mirror, and remind my D of it often.

Chocoholic,

I agree with everything you said!

My D is not driving yet (hasn’t even started taking driver’s ed yet). When she does, I’m sure I’ll start a new thread seeking advice!! Some of her friends are turning 16 this summer, though, and the driving will start soon.

What prompted this thread is the fact that she is going to a friend’s 16th B-day party tomorrow and it will be a sleep-over. After all the advice I have received here, I have decided to let her go. (Also, she has been allowed to go to them in the past…it’s a little arbitrary to disapprove of them now for no specific reason).

I need to make a greater effort of getting to know all her friends and their parents, but it is a large group scattered all over the place in our large metropolitan area.

Also, I am concerned because a long-time friend of my D’s (whose mother is a dear friend of mine) has recently started drinking, and her mother had NO idea. I finally felt compelled to tell the mother, and she was very disappointed that I hadn’t said something sooner.

I trust my D, but I do not want to be naive. I will set clear expectations, remind her of them often, and keep the lines of communications open!

Wish me luck!!!

Marian · June 20, 2007, 4:10pm

This is certainly true, but I think a parent can help a little.

I would suggest that you make clear to your daughter that on this and every other occasion, if for any reason whatsoever she wishes to leave the event early and needs a ride, she can call you and you will pick her up. She doesn’t even have to tell you why.

Also, if she ever receives an invitation to something she’s uncomfortable about and doesn’t want to hurt the person’s feelings, let her know that she’s free to say “My parents won’t let me,” and that you will back her up (even if, in fact, you would have let her).

In my experience, kids often develop pretty good instincts about what activities they can share with what friends. When my son was about 14, he stopped inviting a certain friend to our house even though he continued visiting that boy at his home. Why? It turned out that the boy tended to get kind of wild, physically, and things would get broken. My son didn’t want that happening in his room, but he didn’t particularly care about what happened to his friend’s possessions. At about the same time, my son stopped visiting another boy’s house, although he was still friendly with him at school. Why? The other boy’s older sister and her friends were smoking marijuana in the house (this was during the day, when the parents were at work), and my son preferred to have nothing to do with that situation.

I think these are the kinds of decisions that parents need to support.

mattmom · June 20, 2007, 4:49pm

I think with kids who are driving, sometimes the reason they sleep over is because they have been drinking and know they should not drive after doing so, but that does not mean that all sleepovers are done for that reason or are sinister in some way. Having a sleepover with a group of friends can be perfectly innocent and a lot of fun, even for 16 year olds.

You really have to know your own children and their friends to figure out what rules to make and abide by, but keeping your D from going to a sleepover at an old friend’s house would seem to be unreasonable, expecially on the basis of nothing except what someone else suggests–and who knows what expertise and personal experience that’s based on even if that person is an “authority”? I’m glad you’re being flexibile and open-minded in this case.

berurah · June 20, 2007, 5:16pm

Marian~

I have, in fact, done BOTH of these things upon more than one occasion. My kids know they can ALWAYS use us as an excuse when they’d rather not make one themselves. This goes right along with their making good decisions for themselves. Both of these things you mention involve building good instincts. When I say that I instruct/encourage/support my kids in making good decisions, that does not imply that I NEVER come in and make a decision nor that I leave everything up to my child-just that the final goal is to make sure that by college age, my kids have been practiced at this very necessary set of skills.

~berurah

Opie_ofMaybery2 · June 20, 2007, 5:32pm

At the end of the day you have to trust your parenting skills. It may be that you aren’t questioning your daugther as much as yourself. It’s pretty normal actually.

Ask yourself, has she ever given you reason not to trust her more than once or twice. (everybody’s allowed a mulligan, two or three… no) If you answer that with a “no” she’ll be fine.

Having a D who right now is visting friends in another state for a few days (soph-college) I trust her. She’s never given me reason not to. Having hosted several sleep overs (maybe you should sometime this summer) the girls sit up watch DVDs (Allen Ritchman night last time) eat junky foods, and talk and talk and talk…

Besides girls never want to do anything sexual when there are several of them together… too much gossip possibilities… sort of a safety in numbers thing. Less trouble if 5 or 6 friends are staying over versus 1.

mom60 · June 20, 2007, 6:00pm

We had the rule that the car was not allowed a sleepover. If they wanted to sleepover at a friend the car came home and we dropped them off. With my 2nd I have limited sleepovers to mainly our house. With his friends there have been a few occasions where they were not where they said they were. This has happened once when the Mom was out of town and we did not know it. The boy told his Dad (divorced) that he was sleeping at my house they planned on 3 boys at the Mom’s without permission. This turned into a party that the boy had to eventually call his Dad that got out of control.
I have heard from numerous kids that the sleepovers are usually at the house with the most permissive parents.
My son did ask if he could have a sleepover at the girlfriends house. We are still laughing on that one. DUH!

cheers · June 20, 2007, 6:13pm

We limited the sleepovers after the age of 14. For one thing, after the age of 14, it is very likely that the kids will stay up all night–and the parents and teachers will pay the consequences for the rest of the week. For another thing, I don’t have perfect angels. I have boys who like to explore the boundaries every once in a while. On the whole they were a delight as teens–not much bother at all. However, unlike so many CC parents, I couldn’t predict when or where their peer pressure resistance would collapse.

For that reason, I set some boundaries. There were sleepover invitations nearly every weekend for goodness sakes.

They ended up doing a few special sleepovers and a few farm parties. Then, when they turned 18, I let them make their own decisions and curfews. Now it’s usually our house that has kids sleeping in every nook.

All I can say about single sex sleppovers is that my son went to his gf’s supposedly single sex slumber party. He rode his bike out to her house at midnight.

Her parents never knew he was there. They were in shock when I told them.

blucroo · June 20, 2007, 7:42pm

“However, unlike so many CC parents, I couldn’t predict when or where their peer pressure resistance would collapse.”

Cheers - I think you are probably the most intuitive of the responders here. No matter how much you trust your own, when 15 year-olds get together, stuff happens. It is called “group-think.” Just because your D or S has been parented the “right way” doesn’t mean the other kids have or the parent at the sleep-over house has the same rules/values you have tried to instill. That is why I always have a personal conversation with the parent(s) of the hosting kid and the parents of kids staying at our house.

The OP is talking about a 15 year old, not an 18 year old or college student. 15 year olds are just “hormones on feet.”

MrShowtime · June 20, 2007, 8:27pm

I am about to be a senior in High School and my parents are pretty strict about hanging out and spending then night, so I am going to try and give a child’s perspective. Spending the night up until about end of sophomore year is just hanging out, but then after that, it becomes more about you spending the night at peoples houses when their parents are out of town or spending the night with people who have later curfews and such. I, myself, dont drink or anything of that matter, but many of my friends do and I am around it alot. For parents, you need to trust your kids, unless they lose your trust, because keeping them contained like this throughout their high school life will only make the jump from High School to college even more difficulty. In high school they were told when they had to be home, who they hung out, where they could sleep out, etc. But in college, its completely different. No one tells you what to do. If you want to go out to someones house till 3, you go right ahead. I believe that parents should be strict on their kids in High School but also slowly begin to give them more responsibility, because once Summer of your child’s senior year comes along and they leave without any experience of what other people are like and what experiences lay ahead, they could easily change.

berurah · June 20, 2007, 8:29pm

With all due respect, I would heartily disagree with this statement. Cheers, like each of us, is basing her observations on her experiences with her own children and/or their friends. I am basing my observations on my experiences with my own children and their friends. My children (and many of their friends) do not generally cave to “group think.” I didn’t either. Maybe it’s a genetic thing? Not sure…I just know that cheers’s experiences have been very different from mine down the line. Please understand that my attitude is NOT meant to convey that I feel that my kids area “above” doing something foolish. I mean, I’m not above it and have done and continue to do things that reflect poor judgment. However, I do not buy the fact that it is a “given” that teens will behave foolishly. That has just not been my experience so far.

~berurah

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