Spinning Silver – December CC Book Club Selection

Parent Cafe
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@Mary13 , yes to the Bible stories. That added a layer of richness for me. Amid the fantasy, there was the solid bedrock of Old World Judaism, Miryem observing the sabbath, Panov Mandelstam’s prayers for the fruit trees, the Jewish name Rebekah that Miryem gave the little girl. (Would it be normal for a girl to be named “bat” her mother, Flek, or is that a girl power twist?)

Re: Judith, there is a wonderful painting of Judith and Holofernes by the contemporary artist Kehinde Wiley. The museum curator writes about it, “This new rendition can be interpreted on many different levels, including racial and gender identity and inequity, the representation of women throughout art history, and society’s ideals for beauty.”

https://ncartmuseum.org/blog/view/new_in_the_gallery_kehinde_wiley

ALSO, and my neck prickled with recognition when I read this, when Miryem wants to return to the Staryk world to save her servants/friends, her father asks her, “Are there even ten righteous among them?”

That is from Genesis when Abraham is bargaining with God about whether he’ll destroy a whole city or not, negotiating down from fifty to ten “righteous” residents:

Our author is a well-read woman.

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Back from Mainland China (which was great by the way!)

So funny to read this as, most of the fantasy and sci fi readers I know are the most logical analytic people I know - scientists and programmers. I think they are often a way to explore ideas.

I too would have preferred the change of narrators to be more clearly delineated. At first I thought we would just switch from Miriam to Wanda, so when we got Stephon, I was really taken aback. For some reason I thought we’d only have female narrators.

Does anyone know how Miriam’s mother became a snow tree?

Yes, having I thought Stephon might be on the spectrum, but more or less on the normal side.

I’m rereading the book because I whizzed through a bit too quickly the first time. I’m not sure that Novik really had her magical world all figured out, but I did love the idea of the Staryk world that coexists with ours on a slightly different plane. And I very much liked how Miriam learns to make the way their society works to her favor. And I loved that the cabin in the woods existed in both worlds.

Many libraries shelve sci-fi and fantasy together because there is a lot of overlap, both in who reads them, how the awards work (Hugo and Nebula are for either genre.) As Arthur C. Clarke said, “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.” There are some sci fi novels that have both spaceships and magic.

I thought that inserting Judaism into the story was an interesting choice. I can’t think of too many fantasies that use real world religions, at least that I’ve read. (I did love the line about Miriam saying there were at least three righteous men in Staryk.) I’m not bothered at all about the more fantastical aspects of the story, but I do think one of the challenges is for the author to convince you to believe in their world. That means the magic has to have rules that work and seem consistent. I’m not sure Novik totally succeeded here. OTOH, I find authors like Brandon Sanderson who obsess about having a magical world that is planned to the last blade of glass more annoying.

I don’t think Novik wanted this to be just an escapist read. I think she had a lot of ideas she wanted us to think about. When do you have the responsibilty to act like a parent when your parents aren’t doing their job? Do you do what’s right for yourself? for the family? the kingdom? Miriam, Irina and Wanda all have to struggle with these ideas. Are the Staryk’s idea of balance better or worse that the idea of giving freely?

I actually thought the book should have been longer. I was never bored, but I did think that there were things that got glossed over. I don’t think a good fantasy should make you feel like you are being force to make leaps of faith.

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That’s a great quote. It’s how I feel about the things my iPhone does for me–wonderful things I never knew I set up and don’t understand. :slight_smile:

You make an interesting observation about the sci-fi and fantasy readers you know being scientists and programmers. That makes perfect sense to me for a book like Neal Stephenson’s Seveneves. I felt like I had the wrong brain for that novel, which was incomprehensible in parts. By comparison, Spinning Silver is a light flight of fancy, even taking into consideration the complex themes Novik explores. Those two books seem like very different genres – strange to think they would be/could be shelved together at the library.

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I am traveling right now and just caught up with this thread. I enjoyed all the insight. This group always helps me think of things I don’t come up with on my own.

Like @mathmom, the fantasy and sci-fi readers I know are logical and analytical.

It is a funny coincidence that mathmom mentioned the author Brandon Sanderson. My husband and I have been listening to Sanderson’s The Way of Kings in the car during our current trip. The book was recommended by my son, so we thought we’d give it a try. It is very detailed and we were a bit worried after the first couple chapters. We kept listening and now are enjoying the story.

I read the book for Spinning Silver and also listened to the audio . The audio was definitely a plus for this book. The different voices used helped me keep the characters separate.

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Why even separate out certain genres from the general fiction stacks anyway? Mysteries are also separated out in my library. Not sure if it is normally done this way. I just find it a little odd. Great library, though. :slight_smile:

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How many of us are motivated to read more by Novik?

==raising my hand yes==

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No thanks. :slight_smile:

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Yes – I bought Uprooted for my daughter for Christmas. She loves Tamora Pierce, Rae Carson, etc., so this should be right up her alley.

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I read Uprooted because of this book and a number of reviews who raved about said book. I have mixed feelings about that book. It was full of adventure and interesting in its own right. It does not talk about Judaism.

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I read Uprooted and rated it three stars on Goodreads at the time. I like Spinning Silver more. The magic in both books confused me but more so in Uprooted or maybe required too great a stretch of belief. I remember feeling annoyed. However, I’m in the minority when liking Spinning Silver more than Uprooted. I wouldn’t actively search out another Novik book, but if one ends up in my hands I’ll read it. Faint praise, I guess. I like her writing but have trouble with the magic in her worlds.

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@jollymama and @mathmom enjoyed your comments. Jolly mama thanks for the link to the painting, and explaining some of the religious references! And, Mathmom, excellent review of the book——-

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The whole question of whether there is a good reason to separate genre fiction from the rest is an interesting one. I know Ursula LeGuin struggled to get recognized as a real writer. My favorite writer (Lois McMasters Bujold writes both sci fi and fantasy. Her long sci fi series is basically a long bildungsroman, but many of them are built around a mystery plot. I rarely see sci fi mysteries filed under mysteries - Isaac Asimov also wrote a bunch of sci fi books where the sci fi elements are not nearly as important as the mystery ones.)

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Wow, had never heard of Bildungsroman— must move in different circles.

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^Five years in Germany plus too many friends majoring in Comp Lit or History and Lit. :slight_smile:

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:slight_smile: What a lovely word for coming of age. D recognized it since she know some German. :wink:

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How overtired am I when this classic scene from a favorite family Christmas cartoon makes me think of Miryem and the Staryk King as he wastes away in the sunlit world?: https://www.popsugar.com/entertainment/Frosty-Snowman-Animated-Movie-Melting-Scene-44337533

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As near as I can tell, the tree under which Miriam’s mother and brothers are buried is the beneficiary of a little (inadvertent?) Staryk magic. The ever-moving Staryk road passes by the tree one night when Wanda is outside:

At that moment, a branch of the tree hits her and her mother “speaks” for the first time, warning her: Run home, Wanda!

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@Mary13

Hmm…I had forgotten that part.

I liked the creepiness of the Staryk road —- I did imagine it looking beautiful yet knowing it was dangerous.

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Wait, I’m confused – isn’t it Wanda’s mother who is a snow tree? Miriam’s mother is alive and well, right?

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@CBBBlinker, you’re right, I meant Wanda’s mom!