<p>Our kids both left their respective instruments–S’s trumpet & D’s violin. A niece wanted to borrow the violin but D was very proprietal & didn’t want to loan it out. We are holding it for them like you, “until the time is right.” I expect the kids will still have retained SOME skill on their instruments but neither has played them since HS.</p>
<p>We have had a few threads about weddings.</p>
<p>I’m not sure how much there is to add about retirement accounts and spousal consent–it seems to have been covered from the ERISA viewpoint and many of our varied perspectives. Not sure what more can be gleaned by rehashing our different marriages and perspectives about sharing/not sharing decision-making about financial options and spending. We have a myriad of different relationships and approaches to $$$.</p>
<p>It did seem that the OP helped the topic drift toward funding/not funding weddings and things associated with weddings.</p>
<p>HImom, My sister in law hinted at one point a few years ago about getting my son’s clarinet for my nephew. I/he just wasn’t ready to let it go. I felt a little guilty at the time but am glad we held on to it .</p>
<p>Kids DO get very attached to their instruments. The cost isn’t so high that my SIL & B couldn’t have bought their kiddo her own instrument (they have MUCH more $$ than we do). D reacted so strongly, I didn’t ever mention it again, nor did my SIL & B. Oh well, they didn’t ask my other niece who has a violin either.</p>
I think we got them a fork or something from their registry. It didn’t cost anywhere close what they paid to wine and dine and entertain us.</p>
<p>The reception was in the back yard, which they tented over (actually 4 tents, with tent-like connecting corridors). The most amazing was the bathroom tent - they brought in a trailer with portable toilets that were nicer than the bathrooms in my house. Gold-plated fixtures, tile floors, fine carpentry, just amazing.</p>
<p>Fascinating thread. It’s very interesting to see how different families choose to make financial decisions. I recently starting working for a very small amount of money (literally 5% of what DH makes) for the first time in years (DH loves what he does and is very very good at it), and I was surprised by how much I wanted to hoard it away as “mine” after years of thinking of DH’s income as “ours”. </p>
<p>I’m stuck back at ZM’s son “can’t work”. Yes, at 13, it’s probably not a good idea, but as he gets older and word gets out about his saxophone playing, and as his friends in school decide to start a band with him in it, I’d be willing to bet he will will start earning some income from his music. He may decide to buy his own saxophone, who knows.</p>
<p>Also, with her DH retiring and moving to his golf hideaway, ZM may well find that her husband becomes more flexible about money. (Me, I’m thinking he should just get a local membership and go play every day and come home to her, but what do I know?)</p>
<p>A lot can change in the next three years.</p>
<p>ZM, every single payroll program out there allows for multiple accounts to be used for direct deposit. I am currently running payroll for our company; it’s really really easy to do. If you want to skim $50/paycheck, just tell your DH that the social security rate changed (because it did, two years ago, and will change back at the end of 2012), and tell your payroll administrator to send that money to a savings account. </p>
<p>And as for the wedding-for-the-daughters thing, I’m with you. If you’ve told them they’re paying for their own wedding and giving them plenty of warning, that’s fine. We are paying for a small, informal wedding for our daughter and I’m thrilled to do it–as is DH.</p>
<p>dmd, it would be much easier to open a separate account, BUT it would bother my husband so much that it wouldn’t be worth his hurt feelings. I can’t emphasize enough that my husband won’t say no, but unless things change (which I suspect they might because he is having a bit of a failure of imagination where son is concerned – seems to think he will be a dirty-faced 13-year old forever) I feel strongly about not buying the clarinet in a way that will impose on him.</p>
<p>You are right about son making money by playing. He is aware of many upperclassmen in the school he will be attending in the fall who make good money by playing. I’m positive he’s going to do that, but just not yet. We’re also pretty determined to get him out of middle school before we let him work, but we’ve always joked that we will put him on the main street of our neighborhood with his instrument case open as a plan to pay for college!</p>
<p>I am very relaxed about my husband’s condo partly because I don’t believe he will live there full-time without me. Maybe I’m overselling myself, but I’m an excellent cook (and my husband can NOT cook), I’m the detail person in our marriage, and I’m pretty darn cute! So I figure it’s a win-win for me to be supportive and accepting, all the while knowing I will ultimately get what I want. No reason for me to take a stand on something I don’t think is going to come to pass anyway.</p>
<p>Agreeing to disagree about when and where to retire seems to be on the rise! While I can’t relate to it, apparently “living apart together” or LAT as they call it in this article (why does everything have to have an acronym?) works for some people. For example, I hadn’t seen a neighbor of mine for six months. She is semi-retired, while her H is working full time. She also has some health issues and dislikes cold weather, so this year she leased a place from November to April, while he traveled every month or so to visit. </p>
<p>The article suggests counseling and dealing with the issues up front and well ahead of the anticipated retirement. On the other hand, zmom, you say that there’s a decent chance your H will end up deciding not to live in his future golf condo full time if you don’t pressure him ahead of time. But does that address the need for your feelings to be actively considered and respected in all this? Sweeping this under the rug for years may have its own kind of risk, in the toll that uncertainty and resentment could take on your relationship.</p>
I know that you mean well, but this is a bit of a stretch. My husband does consider my feelings. The reason the retirement issue has come up (and the related clarinet issue) is that my husband will retire so young, which is very unusual. I believe every couple has decisions to make when a major life event occurs, and this is no different. I understand that he’s doing a lot of venting and wishing because picking up 8 tons of garbage every day takes a toll. If I thought he would make the choice to live apart from me, I would have a lot to say about it, but I don’t believe it for a minute. He knows that I won’t be ready to retire at that point and I absolutely believe he will be glad of my income. We’re just in a smiling and nodding phase on this issue because there is nothing to be done and no real reason to slug it out now. As it gets closer, I’ll definitely be involved in the choice of where and what (if anything) to purchase, but right now I am not being disrespected when I tell him that I understand that he needs something to look forward to and appreciate how hard he’s worked all these years. It annoys me a little bit that he thinks I should retire and go, but I think that’s a little bit of adult magical thinking. He sees us as a matched set and in his mind if he wants something, I must want it too. It’s not bad intentions by any means.</p>
So it’s OK for your husband to give you a hard time about spending YOUR money, but it’s not OK for the government to ask for the spouse’s consent to prevent someone becoming destitute?</p>
<p>I am glad you don’t feel disrespected. If my comments were a stretch it’s because I thought your H was basically saying that he’s going to move full time to this condo in five years with or without your approval. But even if that’s a misrepresentation and you both agreed on living apart as an option,there would be something wrong if you weren’t ambivalent (to say the least) about the idea of living separately full time for ten years. Hopefully, it won’t come to that! </p>
<p>In that case, it may be helpful to address the issue before the time is upon you. Certainly, if it becomes obvious that differing goals and priorities are causing friction, professional advice could be helpful in reaching a reasonable compromise.</p>
<p>My H will be retiring in the near future, after 40+ years on the job. I haven’t decided whether or not to follow him & retire or not. Even so, it’s hard to relate to people who plan to live apart for a significant time period, as that is so different from our relationship. The longest we are generally apart is the duration of a business trip–maybe two or so weeks, but for other couples, I know sometimes they live in different states and have to fly to see one another. Everyone seems to have such a different relationship–as long as it works for the individuals & couple, that’s all to the good. Would seem to be a considerable expense to maintain two households but that works for some people.</p>
<p>ZM: you said “adult magical thinking”… Thank you so much for the very useful phrasing and concept. My immediate reaction was “oh, like my husband’s idea that someday I’ll want to do a 100-mile-a-day bicycling trip with him.”</p>
Exactly! My husband has never lived outside of a 3 mile radius in his entire life. We have been together since we were 17 years old. There is no way on God’s green earth that he’s going to live anywhere without me. And when he is no longer fantasizing about daily golf or grousing about his job, he will realize that it would be ludicrous for me to stop earning and contributing at 53 years old. When it all shakes out and he is not working anymore, I think he will be happy to have a home somewhere else where he can go to vacation and then come back up here where all is familiar. Which makes a lot of sense - many people have vacation homes that they enjoy, and I would totally support that. What I won’t do is draw a line in the sand or mock his dream. There is simply no reason to do those things because he will very likely come around to my middle ground with no persuasion from me.</p>
<p>
Couple of misconceptions there. My husband isn’t giving me a hard time about anything. As I said earlier, I haven’t even discussed the 401-K thing with him so he has no idea about that whatsoever. </p>
<p>We aren’t talking about anyone become destitue because at issue is a very small LOAN that must be paid back through payroll deductions, not a distribution. </p>
<p>The regulation with which I disagree isn’t a governmental regulation, it is specific to my firm’s plan and doesn’t apply to all 401-K plans.</p>
<p>The difference is that it is my choice to consider my husband’s feelings in not opening a separate bank account. I don’t need his consent to do or not do that. It is the issue of consent with respect to my firm’s plan that I object to.</p>
<p>Please explain to me why a payroll deduction to a savings account for the next three years is NOT ok…but a payroll deduction to repay a loan from the retirement account IS ok.</p>
Asked and answered several times in the thread. The 401-K account is in my name only and if I were to take a loan out on it it would be paid back through a payroll deduction and my husband’s money wouldn’t be affected. As I also said earlier, opening a separate account would hurt his feelings and there is no need for that.</p>
<p>I’m not sure why so many people have been so bothered by this thread that they are bringing so much of their own baggage to it, despite what I actually post. I guess that’s the nature of forums, but to be honest with you, it’s getting a little tiresome to try to remember how well intentioned you all are as I repeat the same things over and over again.</p>
<p>So to recap</p>
<p>The amount at issue is around $5000 in a multiples of six figure account.<br>
If taken, the loan would be paid back through payroll deductions.
It is not a distribution.
The spousal notification requirement is discretionary on the part of the plan, it is not a federal regulation.
We have the money in both investment and savings accounts to pay outright for the item.
I oppose forcing my husband to participate in the purchase of something that he doesn’t support.
I haven’t discussed the 401-K issue with him.
None of this will come into play for at least three years, if ever.
My husband has not said no to the instrument purchase and I can’t imagine a scenario in which he would do so.</p>
<p>ZM: I think what worries people is that you seem to be very considerate of your husband’s feelings, while he’s not as considerate of yours. Most of us would prefer marriage as a two-way street.</p>
It is very much a two-way street, but you are only hearing one side. As I said, he knows absolutely nothing about this train of thought (because he doesn’t have a 401K and has no frame of reference), so he actually has no side as of this point. He does, however, have a dream for his retirement and in his dream he is sweeping me away to a sunny destination that is a permanent vacation.</p>
It didn’t cost anywhere close what they paid to wine and dine and entertain us.</p>