Columbia reinstates starting 2027 cycle
https://undergrad.admissions.columbia.edu/apply/process/testing
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UC’s agree to take up the issue following the recent faculty petition. I understand “test optional" but “test blind” seems indefensible.
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UC is less likely to do test optional than it is to stay test blind or go back to test required.
During COVID-19 SAT/ACT testing disruptions, UC gave campuses the option of choosing test optional or test blind, but then there was a lawsuit claiming that test optional was unfair to students with disabilities.
To those that believe in TO, what are you afraid of ?
Of course, these profs are right - and in the day to day trenches and should be listened to.
it doesn’t take an Einstein to know that TO is just a way to hide something. So I applaud these profs.
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If this is a stated admission requirement, then yes.
Too much coddling. I wonder how many college graduates were passed through vs earning it. I don’t know the answer but guessing it happens unless the bar to be a graduate isn’t as high as many think it should be.
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I recall when MIT reinstated the test requirement four years before it was cool, it was begrudgingly allowed by the opposition that while yes, it miight make sense for MIT, at least everywhere else these test are surely still serving as tools of oppression.
It’s good to see some basic sanity returning. Yet it is surprising it took so long for some of the nation’s top academic institutions to recognize something that to many of us seemed self-evident from the very beginning. Perhaps they knew it all along but were afraid to say so…
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According to the Atlantic article:
“But however hard they worked, most of the students who arrived to calculus class without knowing algebra failed.”
What happens to the kids who fail calculus? Do they change majors? Do STEM/business employers hire kids who cant get past a baseline college math class?
“The rupture was years in the making, after a policy change meant to promote equity collided with the practical realities of teaching calculus to students who struggle with basic algebra even at some of America’s premier scientific universities.”
This hurts just reading it. How was this not a completely predictable outcome to anyone? And why, for a while, anyone saying this was completely obvious, was called names and excluded from polite company?
This is exactly what happens, and has been happening for a while.
These two CNN pieces are as relevant today as they were when they were written 15 years ago, even if the formatting is now broken…
Why would-be engineers end up as English majors
How the U.S. lags in math, science education, and how it can catch up
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And people get mad when you call out the LACs that have been long TO - but you can never convince me that all the kids there would be there - if a test was required and they eliminated those without adequate scores, etc.
It doesn’t mean a student isn’t wonderful but it might mean they are not at the level of the school they are attending - provided you believe, as I do, that the test is an equalizer whereas high school grades are not.
Yes, many get upset when you express an opinion they don’t agree with or perhaps they are defensive because they or a family member attended a school TO and they ostracize you for having this opinion. But honestly, it is sort of obvious. It doesn’t take away from the fact that all kids don’t have the same access to quality schooling, the test and more - but when simply accounting for readiness, it’s a no brainer.
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It wasn’t just LACs. There were ~1000 test optional colleges prior to COVID, including some highly selective ones, like Chicago. Bowdoin had been test optional for more than 50 years and others for decades. Among all those ~1000 test optional colleges, I am not aware of any that returned back to testing prior to COVID. I also not aware of any colleges that mentioned a problem with the performance of students matriculating without tests compared to those with tests. Instead many colleges published reports showing comparable performance and outcomes among test submitters and non-submitters, such as comparable college GPAs and graduation rates.
This suggests the problem isn’t inherent to the concept of not requiring tests. Instead it’s more something changed with the new round of test optional during/following COVID. I think there are several contributing factors to this apparent change.
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From an educational perspective, COVID was probably the worst time in modern history for colleges to switch to test optional. With the switch to remote learning, many students were suddenly struggling with the change in format and lack of in person interaction with their teachers. A good portions of students that had been excellent students for years were suddenly not learning foundational concepts adequately. Schools/teachers recognized that the students were struggling in a challenging situation, and often reacted by grading especially leniently to compensate. Overall average GPAs increased with the students learning less adequately, rather than decreased. Some HSs/classes stopped giving distinguishing grades at all, such as grading on Pass/Fail and give all students Pass.
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In addition to transcripts being less meaningful, other non-transcript portions of application also became less meaningful. LORs were less insightful about students, with less personal interaction with their teachers and GC. While being under lockdown, ECs and awards related to planned field of study were often no longer available. AP/IB were more limited, as were various other ways for admissions to recognize students’ foundational abilities.
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Prior to COVID, colleges were able to choose whether they wanted to be test optional or not. They conducted internal research prior to making a decision. And prior to implementing had a plan of how to conduct admissions and what to expect. COVID was different. Colleges were forced to be test optional whether they wanted to or not. Many did not have a good plan of what to do or what to expect. They did not have the option of only being test optional for certain situations or certain types of applicants for which there was more secondary confirmation.
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Mark Twain once said, “There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.” One can present stats in such a way to show what you want to show, by highlighting certain areas and ignoring others, or using carefully selected controls. If a college wants to be test optional, it can present stats that show test optional in a more positive light. If a college does not want to be test optional, it can present stats that show test optional in a more negative light. With colleges being forced to be test optional instead of choosing, there are now far more colleges in the latter group than pre-COVID.
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And now with students writing essays with AI, even more parts of the application have become less meaningful.
It will be interesting to see if going back to test required will actually make a difference.
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This. And while standardized test scores do provide an extra data point, there is also the disparity between those who can afford specialized test training and those who cannot. Given the challenge of AI in college essay writing, perhaps the standardized testing should bring back the essay there.
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People always assume that upper income families pay for SAT tutors. Oftentimes, it’s just not true. My 2 kids scored 1560 and 1580. They used Khan Academy and Erica Meltzer books. We know many families who did the same, all 1550+ scorers. There are probably tons of kids who get private SAT tutoring and cant break 1300.
We also know that colleges expectations differ between applicants from affluent backgrounds and those from lower-income families.
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And many get accepted to great colleges and have very rewarding careers as well. Their SAT or ACT score did not define them in terms of their success as students.
Correct. But I see the “the wealthy bought their way to high SAT scores” argument all the time. And oftentimes, it’s not true.
People just dont want to admit that some kids cant do calculus at UC Berkely no matter how much tutoring they get.
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Wealth matters for high SAT scores likely because those families are more educationally inclined, and set very high educational expectations for their kids from a very early age. We have done zero coaching. The kids practically did no prep and the scores were reasonable. I wouldn’t have paid for coaching regardless of whether I had money or not. Poor scores just mean that the kids don’t have adequate basic knowledge in language skills and/or math. In a place like Germany, for example, they would go to trade school.
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This is probably true at most highly selective universities, since most of them do not require calculus as a general education requirement for graduation.
On the other hand, students at UC Berkeley can probably spell “Berkeley” correctly.
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Yes but the argument is usually focused on private tutoring because it’s a much simpler argument than educated parents spend time with their kids, teach their kids, set high expectations etc.
For many people, wealth is always the common denominator.
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Touche
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In the end, colleges know they are letting in the under prepared. But their argument would be that if they didn’t, they wouldn’t have adequate racial and socioeconomic diversity amongst the student body.
There’s truth on all sides. There’s no easy answer.