State of Wonder – October CC Book Club Selection

[LasMa]

<p>Oh man. If I were assigned a paper on this book, I wouldn’t know where to start – there’s so much! Can’t wait to see what you all think.</p>

[Mary13]

<p>Hello everyone! It’s October 1st and time to begin our discussion of State of Wonder! I thought it was a beautifully written, mesmerizing story. </p>

<p>As LasMa pointed out, there is so much to discuss. These questions might be a helpful place to start:</p>

<p>

1. How would you describe Marina Singh? How has the past shaped her character? Discuss the anxieties that are manifested in her dreams.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>“Marina was from Minnesota. No one ever believed that. At the point when she could have taken a job anywhere she came back because she loved it here. This landscape was the one she understood, all prairie and sky.” What does this description say about the character?</p></li>
<li><p>Talk about Marina’s relationship with her boss, Mr. Fox. Would you call what they share love? Do they have a future? Why does he want Marina to go to the Amazon? What propels her to agree?</p></li>
<li><p>What drew Marina to her old mentor, Annik Swenson? Compare and contrast the two women. How does Annick see Marina? Barbara Bovender, one of Annik’s caretakers/gatekeepers tells Marina, “She’s such a force of nature. . . . a woman completely fearless, someone who sees the world without limitations.” Is this a fair assessment of Annik? How would you describe her? How has the elderly doctor’s past shaped the person she is and the choices she has made?</p></li>
<li><p>Describe the arc of Marina and Annik’s relationship from the novel’s beginning to its end. Do you like these women? Did your opinion of them change as the story unfolded? Why didn’t Marina ever tell anyone the full story of her early experience with Annick?</p></li>
<li><p>Consider Annik’s research in the Amazon. Should women of any age be able to have children? What are the benefits and the downsides? Why does this ability seem to work in the Lakashi culture? What impact does this research ultimately have on Marina? Whether you are a man or woman, would you want to have a child in your fifties or sixties? How far should modern science go to “improve” on nature?</p></li>
<li><p>In talking about her experiences with the indigenous people, Annik explains, “the question is whether or not you choose to disturb the world around you; or if you choose to go on as if you had never arrived. “ How does Marina respond to this? Did Annik practice what she preached? How do these women’s early choices impact later events and decisions? How does Annik’s statement extend beyond the Amazon to the wider world? Would you rather make a “disturbance” in life, or go along quietly?</p></li>
<li><p>Talk about the Lakashi people and the researchers. How do they get along? Though the scientists try not to interfere with the natives’ way of life, how does their being there impact the Lakashi? What influence do the Lakashi have on the scientists?</p></li>
<li><p>Would you be able to live in the jungle as the researchers and natives do? Is there an appeal to going back to nature; from being removed from the western constraints of time and our modern technological society?</p></li>
<li><p>What role does nature and the natural world—the jungle, the Amazon River—play in Marina’s story? How does the environment influence the characters—Marina, Annik, Milton, Anders, Easter, and the others? Annik warns Marina, “It’s difficult to trust yourself in the jungle. Some people gain their bearings over time but for others that adjustment never comes.” Did Marina ultimately “gain her bearings”?</p></li>
<li><p>Marina travels into hell, into her own Conradian “heart of darkness.” What keeps her in the jungle longer than she’d ever thought she’d stay? How does this journey transform her and her view of herself and the world? Will she ever return—and does she need to?</p></li>
<li><p>What is your opinion of the choices Marina made regarding Easter? What role did the boy play in the story? Do you think Marina will ever have the child—one like Easter—that she wants?</p></li>
<li><p>What do you think happens to Marina after she returns home?</p></li>
<li><p>State of Wonder is rich in symbolism. Identify a few—for example, Eden Prairie (Marina’s Minnesota home), Easter (the young deaf native boy), Milton (the Brazilian guide)—and talk about how Ann Patchett uses them to deepen the story.</p></li>
<li><p>State of Wonder raises questions of morality and principle, civilization, culture, love, and science. Choose a few events from the book to explore some of these themes.</p></li>
<li><p>What is the significance of the novel’s title, State of Wonder?</p></li>
</ol>

<p>[Reading</a> Guide on State of Wonder from HarperCollins Publishers](<a href=“http://www.harpercollins.com/author/authorExtra.aspx?isbn13=9780062049803&displayType=readingGuide]Reading”>http://www.harpercollins.com/author/authorExtra.aspx?isbn13=9780062049803&displayType=readingGuide)

</p>

<p>I can’t help myself—I am going to jump right to the end (spoiler alert!) and address question 13 above: “What do you think happens to Marina after she returns home?”
I think she finds out that she’s pregnant. Marina has been priming herself for fertility from the moment she tastes the bark of the Martins, and it seems like a foregone conclusion that the night with Anders would have consequences. In fact, I think the book is all about consequences—the idea that every decision you make has a domino effect, altering the lives of everyone around you.</p>

<p>If Marina is pregnant (bookiemom, is this the subtle aspect of the plot you were referring to?), how do you think Anders and Karen would deal with it?</p>

[BUandBC82]

<p>I also think Marina will be pregnant. I was hoping Marina and Anders were just going to sleep together for comfort. I was disappointed when they made love. I didn’t think it was necessary for the story to be complete. I’m not sure how Anders and Karen would deal with the pregnancy. Anders loves his children and is a great father, so he would want to be involved. If Marina is pregnant, there will be anger and sorrow for Karen, but she seems like a person who would love the child and be able to offer some level of forgiveness. Even so, I can’t imagine an easy solution.</p>

[ignatius]

<p>^^^ In complete agreement with Mary and BUandBC82 </p>

<p>except</p>

<p>I don’t think the words if or perhaps apply to Marina and pregnancy.</p>

<p>Nancy Saturn to Marina, page 262:</p>

<p>

They don’t come when they’re pregnant. In fact the bark repulses them from what seems to be the moment of conception. Dr. Swenson confirms this.

</p>

<p>Marina, as she wakes with Anders, page 350:</p>

<p>

She would have thought that she would go to the Martins one last time before leaving but now all she wanted was for this to be over. She was finished with the trees. The fact that she had ever considered bringing back a bag full of branches struck her now as ridiculous and slightly repulsive.

</p>

[BUandBC82]

<p>ignatius - ^^ Wow, I missed that! Marina IS pregnant. Great find!</p>

[Mary13]

<p>That confirms it! So she’s definitely pregnant. Like BUandBC82, my first thought when Marina and Anders slept together was, “Is this really necessary? And is it realistic?" As to the first question, upon reflection, I think it is necessary…that is, the plot seems to be barreling toward either a pregnancy for Marina or some internal “showdown” regarding her chances of ever bearing a child. Her near-addiction to the Martins and the third-degree Dr. Swenson gives her about wanting a child (p. 245-46) need to lead somewhere, at least from a literary perspective.</p>

<p>As for the second question, yes, I suppose it’s realistic. What Anders and Marina went through is so far outside the realm of anything that most people ever experience, that their response (sleeping together) makes a certain amount of sense. (Although I’m surprised they’d have the energy after the day’s adventures ;)). </p>

<p>I’d also like to think that Karen would understand and forgive. There is no question that Anders adores his wife and that they have a special bond. (I thought that the last letter he wrote before “dying”—where he simply wrote Karen’s name over and over—was very touching.)</p>

[SouthJerseyChessMom]

<p>I love the way Patchett revealed that Marina was pregnant, without directly stating it.
(might have missed that fact if it weren’t for bookiemom’s suggestion to reread)
I wonder if Annik’s prediction that Marina won’t be able to re-enter her old world, proves true. Many of Annik’s observations proved accurate.</p>

[Mary13]

<p>Marina’s pregnancy can also be looked at from the perspective of question 7:</p>

<p>

7. In talking about her experiences with the indigenous people, Annik explains, “the question is whether or not you choose to disturb the world around you; or if you choose to go on as if you had never arrived. “ How does Marina respond to this? Did Annik practice what she preached? How do these women’s early choices impact later events and decisions? How does Annik’s statement extend beyond the Amazon to the wider world? Would you rather make a “disturbance” in life, or go along quietly?

</p>

<p>I think that the first assumption at the end of the novel is that Marina chooses “to go on as if you had never arrived.” This is intimated in the last sentence of the book, when she drops off Anders at his house: “And Marina brought him back, and without a thought that anyone should see her, she told the driver to go on.” She is (it appears) choosing to go on as if she had never arrived. </p>

<p>But in fact, after digesting/re-reading that last chapter, it becomes clear that the contrary is true. By sleeping with Anders and becoming pregnant (and as a result, likely creating havoc in her life and his), Marina has chosen “to disturb the world around you.” And it was a choice. Marina makes the first deliberate move: “…and that was when she kissed him, because their mouths were so close, because he was in fact alive, because she could not explain any of it.” (p. 349) And Anders responds for what are probably exactly the same reasons.</p>

[katliamom]

<p>Was anyone else shocked and heartbroken by what happened with Easter?</p>

[SouthJerseyChessMom]

<p>Horrified !</p>

[BUandBC82]

<p>I agree. I kept hoping Easter would show up. That somehow he escaped.</p>

[Mary13]

<p>The scene where Easter was taken was heart-wrenching. However, I think Anders was right. He and Marina had no choice but to leave–Easter would have been taken no matter what they tried to do (and they would have died in the process of trying). </p>

<p>Ironically, the loss of Easter is really the fault of Dr. Swenson, who should have cautioned Marina about bringing him. When Marina calls her on this, the always-rational, cold and clear-headed Dr. Swenson gives an uncharacteristically emotional and irrational answer: “’He didn’t belong to them,’ Dr. Swenson said, ‘He was mine.’”</p>

<p>I took comfort in the fact that the incredibly resourceful Easter might find a way to make his way back. At least he was being delivered into the arms of people who were overjoyed to have him returned to them.</p>

<p>There’s an interesting parallel between Easter and Anders’ journeys. Both characters fall desperately ill and are presumed dead by the families who love them, and both families receive this erroneous information directly from Dr. Swenson. And both are “resurrected” to their people (hmm…like the religious feast of “Easter.”). Anders, however, understands and embraces his “resurrection,” whereas Easter is bewildered and terrified.</p>

[Mary13]

<p>Something else (that speaks to the careful construction of the novel): Easter is instantly recognized by the Hummocca, even after eight years. That scenario might seem impossible were it not for Dr. Swenson’s earlier comment, “Easter is a very small child, I would go so far as to say he is stunted.” (p. 159)</p>

<p>By the way, in re-reading the passage where Dr. Swenson says that, I realized how much she lies to Marina. The back story she gives Marina about Easter’s “abandonment” is a real whopper. And here’s another irony: In telling that lie, Dr. Swenson says to Marina about Easter’s parents: </p>

<p>

”Parents seems a very sentimental word to use in his case. The man who inseminated the woman, the woman who pushed the child out of her body, other members of the tribe who may or may not have tried to raise that child when the original duo failed in their responsibilities: his parents have not been in evidence.”

</p>

<p>Couldn’t those disparaging comments apply to Dr. Swenson herself? The baby she carries is conceived by an unknown father (artificial insemination?) and a mother who is performing a scientific experiment to see if she can successfully gestate and push “the child out of her body.” And since Dr. Swenson is 73 years old, odds are that even if the baby had lived, its upbringing would have been passed off to her “tribe” of doctors, “who may or may not have tried to raise that child when the original duo failed in their responsibilities.” </p>

<p>“Parent” is also a very sentimental word to use in Dr. Swenson’s case.</p>

[ignatius]

<p>You notice we all assume that Marina won’t terminate the pregnancy … which, of course, would be the most expedient thing for her to do. Marina is in her 40s and unmarried … and should be leery of the pregnancy’s outcome, with good reason, after delivering Dr. Swenson’s baby. Certainly the fallout would eventually include Marina’s employment at Vogel. Mr. Fox would be supportive of the pregnancy, of course: a human dose - first in man - so easily monitored. But after that … while Karen may forgive the indiscretion, the reality of Anders and Marina working daily side-by-side would have to stop. And, if we’re talking expedient actions, after the pregnancy Mr. Fox might find it in Marina’s best interests to leave the company. (Never have a hushed-up affair with your boss; I mean, really.)</p>

<p>At first I wondered if Dr. Swenson would be proved right: Marina returns to the Amazon and takes up Dr. Swenson’s work. However, the pregnancy precludes any thought of that happening. Marina would never consider having her child or raising her child among the Lakashi people.</p>

<p>Oh man, I want Easter loved and happy … as did Anders and Marina and the Bovenders and perhaps even Milton. Easter ends up back with the Hummocca … and maybe that’s exactly where he’ll be loved and happy. Dr. Swenson loves Easter, yes … but his parents’ joy at seeing him alive seems to indicate a deeper love than Dr. Swenson can begin to understand. The Hummocca don’t have unlimited fertility, after all … and from the beginning Easter seems to be a child of importance to the tribe. Once I got over my “no, no, no” reaction, I moved onto thinking that perhaps Easter back with the Hummocca ends his tale better than Marina and Anders leaving him with Dr. Swenson. Easter in Minnesota just doesn’t seem right, either. </p>

<p>I’d thought I’d quickly tackle question #9.</p>

<p>

9. Would you be able to live in the jungle as the researchers and natives do? Is there an appeal to going back to nature; from being removed from the western constraints of time and our modern technological society?

</p>

<p>NO</p>

[SouthJerseyChessMom]

<p>So ** Easter ** is the"child’ sacrificed resulting Ander’s resurrection from the dead (as noted by Mary 13).
Does explain why Patchett chose such an "unusual’ name for a young boy. </p>

<p>Ignatius, it never occurred to me that Marina would consider an abortion, her maternal instincts are so strong. She deserves to be a mother.
Mr. Fox is really a rat, don’t ya’ think.
If Mrs Bovender heard Ander’s screams from the shore, why didn’t he ? </p>

<p>Did anyone think that the last chapter, may have implied that Dr Swenson thought she was sending Marina to certain death, and perhaps this is why she decoded Mrs Bovenders “dream”?</p>

[SouthJerseyChessMom]

<p>Tidbit about Bovenders
from this NPR Interview Patchett says
[Ann</a> Patchett: “State of Wonder” | The Diane Rehm Show from WAMU and NPR](<a href=“http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2011-06-08/ann-patchett-state-wonder/transcript]Ann”>Ann Patchett: "State of Wonder" - Diane Rehm)</p>

<p>**I love the Bovenders and that is such a funny story because I am a big support of public libraries and I’m on the board of my public library in Nashville, Tenn., and we have a huge fundraising gala every year. I was asked to donate an auction item and I said I would name a character after you, after the highest bidder in the next book that I was working on. And the Bovenders bought the auction item and they were people that I know. And they’re pillars of the community, great philanthropists, wonderful, very intelligent people. **</p>

[PATheaterMom]

<p>I very much enjoyed this book. However, I wish the issues at the end of the book would be explored more-I was expecially moved by Easter’s panic and sense of betrayal,mixed with the happiness of his birth parents. I had no idea that Marina might be pregnant-good call! I also wanted to know more back story on Dr. Swenson and what motivated her.</p>

[Mary13]

<p>ignatius, LOL, I am in complete agreement with your NO. The only place I want to experience the Amazon in all its mosquito-infested glory is in a book.</p>

<p>I think that subconsciously, Marina wants a child, even though she insists to Dr. Saturn that she’s not going to get pregnant. So no, I don’t imagine that she’d terminate the pregnancy. Although if she did, that would be the one scenario where I could see her returning to the Amazon and losing herself in the work there.</p>

<p>

@SouthJerseyChessMom

Mr. Fox is really a rat, don’t ya’ think.
If Mrs Bovender heard Ander’s screams from the shore, why didn’t he ?

</p>

<p>SJCM, I’ll give Mr. Fox a pass on not hearing or seeing Anders:</p>

<p>

”Did Milton see him, or Mr. Fox?”</p>

<p>She shook her head. “Mr. Fox was on the deck and Milton was driving.”

</p>

<p>And I think Mr. Fox traveled all the way to the Amazon more out of worry for Marina than as a career move. But he did disappoint me in his reaction to Dr. Swenson and all that was transpiring at the Lakashi camp. I wanted him to express either intense wonder or horror or regret, but he seemed to settle merely on satisfaction that the company job was progressing well. </p>

<p>Despite his concern for Marina, I would not (in answer to question 3) call what they share “love.” I think their affair was a result of loneliness and shared work interests.</p>

<p>

@SouthJerseyChessMom

Did anyone think that the last chapter, may have implied that Dr Swenson thought she was sending Marina to certain death, and perhaps this is why she decoded Mrs Bovenders “dream”?

</p>

<p>Wow! That didn’t occur to me. If true, it would shift Dr. Swenson from calculating to downright sinister. But I can’t see a motive in assuring Marina’s death. It wouldn’t help Dr. Swenson save face (re the lie she told about Anders’ death) because she also confessed to Dr. Nkomo. And she seemed to genuinely want Marina to stay on and take over her role tending to the Lakashi people. </p>

<p>Loved your tidbit about the Bovenders!</p>

[MomLive]

<p>Geez, I read this book about 6-8 weeks ago and don’t remember any of this. You guys are good. I’m going to need to pay more attention to next month’s book. My IRL book club doesn’t discuss books in this detail. I’m so rusty at this, I’m embarrassed. I just realized I have really lowered my expectations because of my real life book clubs. Going to stick with you ladies from now on.</p>

[SouthJerseyChessMom]

<p>Don’t know how to locate the page number for this, my Kindle shows this quote at 92%, if that helps anyone.</p>

<p>Marina asks-
** Is there any safe way for me to do this? she said finally.
Dr Swenson covered her eyes with the heels of her hands. “No. In fact, I imagine they’ll kill you”. **</p>

<p>eventually Marina says ** I should go now **
** After we’ve thought it through. Dr Swenson said. “First there has to be a plan” **</p>

<p>Dr Swenson so feared the Hummocca, is there any plan which could possibly work?</p>

<p>Agree with you Mary13, Marina’s relationship ship with Mr Fox, was as you stated ** I think their affair was a result of loneliness and shared work interests. **</p>