<p>I agree. We’ve determined that she could never go back to working with Anders, or for Mr. Fox, and I also don’t think she will go back to the Amazon. If Marina learned nothing else in this journey, it’s that she is a hands-on doctor, a surgeon, not a pharmacologist or a researcher. Carrying on the Rapp-Swenson work would be a poor fit for her, and I think she’s smart enough to realize this. </p>
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<p>A resounding yes and yes to both of the above. Dr. Swenson’s actions–be they significant (missing the C-section) or minor (moving the cot)–stem from her self-centered, demanding stubbornness—and usually bode ill for Marina.</p>
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<p>No, I am going to go with the view that Marina wasn’t thinking straight, due partly to trauma and perhaps mostly to the Martins, which (given ignatius’ research :)) appear to have made her ultra-h*rny. (Forget fertility or anti-malarials—there’s the drug Mr. Fox could have marketed. ;)) Seriously, though, it’s a medical fact that women’s sexual desire increases when fertile ([A</a> Woman’s Sexual Desire Peaks When She’s Most Fertile](<a href=“http://www.online-ambulance.com/articles/doc/9/grp/Women/art/AWoman.htm]A”>http://www.online-ambulance.com/articles/doc/9/grp/Women/art/AWoman.htm)), and the Martins probably provided Marina with a dose that quadrupled the usual effect. When all was said and done, however, Marina should have been actively fretting about the possibility that she might have gotten pregnant, but Patchett doesn’t give us that.</p>
<p>Who do you think was the father of Dr. Swenson’s child? Was it another doctor there? Dr. Rapp’s frozen sperm? Anders even? Why do you think the author made Marina’s pregancy so hard to discover for the reader? I certainly didn’t pick up on it-but once it was pointed out made sense.</p>
<p>To start this comment, I have to admit that I overlooked the indication that Marina is definitely pregnant at the end of the book. I was thinking only that she might be pregnant. So, my other thoughts may be a bit off.</p>
<p>However, I read the statement, “She was finished with the trees. The fact that she had ever considered bringing back a bag full of branches struck her now as ridiculous and slightly repulsive,” and interpreted that statement in light of Marina’s job with the pharmaceutical company. Then the bringing back the plant samples would permit Marina to isolate the active compound that could keep women fertile throughout their lives, and ultimately to see the new pharmaceutical through testing, to market. So I took this action of Marina’s as a repudiation of Dr. Swenson’s entire research program on life-long fertility.</p>
<p>It is interesting to combine this idea with the thought that Marina is definitely pregnant. I view Marina’s pregnancy as consistent with nature (even if helped along by the Martins), while Dr. Swenson’s was not—a point underscored by the fact that Dr. Swenson’s child did not survive to term and had a rare birth defect.</p>
<p>It seemed to me that the author was working with the idea of possibilities whose time was past, or not past. There are several instances in the book. Do you think that Marina will attempt a return to surgery? I did not—I thought that door had closed. However, there might be indications otherwise in the text. You might have seen some?</p>
<p>There are seasons in life when certain doors are closing. The end of fertility is the most obvious example, for a woman. Although this issue can be delayed for a man with a younger partner, there are indications of some genetic changes in the offspring of older fathers. The possibility of adoption extends the time window, but the time eventually comes when even this is no longer a realistic possibility (unless one is adopting a teenager—blessings on those who do). I think the book could be a difficult one for someone who happened to be grappling with those issues, at the time of reading.</p>
<p>Career choices are less irreversible, generally. I know one person who went to law school in her late sixties or early seventies, for example. On the other hand, it might be particularly difficult to return to surgery, even in one’s early 40’s.</p>
<p>I have to say that I found the Bovenders almost completely incomprehensible. The thought has just occurred to me that perhaps one of them was the child of Swenson and Rapp–ok, absurd, but nothing about them made much sense to me.</p>
<p>The name of the Hummocca struck me as possibly meaningful, but I couldn’t tell what. (Also, re-read earlier posts and had the answer to the choice of “Bovenders.”)</p>
<p>I think that’s a legitimate interpretation regardless of whether or not Marina is pregnant. She had some serious qualms about Dr. Swenson’s research and pregnancy, and I suspect that delivering a baby with sirenomelia didn’t win any points for the project. I’m not saying Marina wasn’t intrigued by the research–she was, and who wouldn’t be?–but after finding Anders, I think she realized, almost as an epiphany, that her mission was done and “she was finished with the trees.” </p>
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<p>I enjoyed them as a sort of colorful comic relief. Maybe they are the human version of Cerberus, the guard dog who blocks Orpheus’ entrance into Hades until charmed into submission. :)</p>
<p>In the end, Barbara Bovender was needed as almost a deus ex machina device to lead Marina to Anders. (“a plot device whereby a seemingly inextricable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability, or object.” [Deus</a> ex machina - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_ex_machina]Deus”>Deus ex machina - Wikipedia))</p>
<p>I think that is a very insightful comment, Mary13, in post #147. It really brings out the multiple meanings of Marina’s being “finished with the trees.”</p>
<p>That’s also an interesting point about the role that Barbara Bovender played in leading Marina to Anders. I think that wasn’t essential, though, because it might have been possible to work out a way in which Easter would be able to observe Anders’ presence among the Hummocca (without Easter’s being detected), and let Marina know about it. The loss of Easter on the trip to pick up Anders could still have happened, so as not to disrupt that symbolism.</p>
<p>I had what I will now call the QuantMech-Off-the-Cliff-of-Absurdity Moment, and thought briefly when I was reading that maybe Dr. Swenson had joined in one of the Lakashi vision quest orgies in order to get herself impregnated. But, you know…ew. </p>
<p>No way was it Anders. I can’t believe he’d ever make such a “donation” to the cause. Seems like it would have to be some sort of artificial insemination, but from what source?</p>
<p>I think that Marina’s pregnancy is hard to discover because Ann Patchett likes to create puzzles for the reader to work out. (That’s what she said in the interview SouthJerseyChessMom found for us: “One of the things that I really love about writing a novel is that puzzling, sort of like you’re working a crossword puzzle or playing a game.”)</p>
<p>Very interesting point, Mary13. I read the book too fast to be sure (before I realized that it was the CC book for discussion).</p>
<p>I agree that it could not have been Anders. I am sure that Dr. Swenson would have liked for Rapp to be the donor, but don’t see how that could possibly have been accomplished. I think the most likely scenario is that Dr. Swenson obtained all sorts of samples from the local people, and that was her source. </p>
<p>(A wild alternative is Jack Bovender. That seems off-the-cliff, but on the other hand, it would cause the Bovenders to make a bit more sense to me, as characters.)</p>
<p>Just noticed that someone in another online locale suggested that Linda Hunt be cast as Dr. Swenson. I think she could pull it off with great panache. Perhaps she could find some sympathetic qualities in the character, which largely eluded me.</p>
<p>Mary13- I nominate Quantmech for most creative reason for editing award:</p>
<p>I had what I will now call the QuantMech-Off-the-Cliff-of-Absurdity Moment,
LOL! </p>
<p>And, I’m embarrassed to admit I also thought perhaps one of those orgies may have been a possibility- because that drug effect was so strange in the plot…</p>
<p>I’ve heard that a movie is in development and that Meryl Streep’s name is attached to the project. I’d guess that if that’s true, she would be playing Dr. Swensen. I know that she’s who I pictured the entire time I read the book, so I hope it’s true.</p>
<p>I just wish I could remember where I heard that rumor.</p>
<p>I imagined Meryl Streep in the role, too. Really, isn’t Dr. Swenson just Miranda Priestly (from The Devil Wears Prada) transplanted to the Amazon? Including in the way that they are both “devils” in the work environment, but defer to their men in their personal lives.</p>
<p>To quote Dr. Swenson (somewhat) and sending along her look of gravest disappointment: “Really, [Mary, QuantMech, and SJCM], you are not serious.” LOL</p>
<p>I’d go with an anonymous donor courtesy of a reputable sperm bank and do-it-herself intracervical insemination. Dr. Swenson could have handled the details with no trouble and no one the wiser. Any costs involved would be sent to Vogel along with her myriad other expenses.</p>
<p>Anders had no idea of the difficulties he’d encounter - starting with his extended stay in Manaus. He believed he could travel to the Amazon, talk with Dr. Swenson, see his birds, and be home within a couple of weeks.</p>
<p>Marina comments (at some point, somewhere) that no one can understand the difficulties or dangers of the Amazon until they’ve gone to the Amazon. Anders would have had no idea. Actually neither did Marina.</p>
<p>I see your point, ignatius. On the other hand, do we have evidence of refrigerated materials making their way to the camp? As opposed to material collected there being refrigerated? It seems to me Dr. Swenson did not travel out of the country, in the necessary time frame (though perhaps she did). As the situation in Manaus is portrayed, it is not clear to me that material could be flown in, kept refrigerated, and picked up (still cold) by Dr. Swenson. I hope someone who read the book more closely than I did can offer some textual evidence.</p>
<p>I think Dr. Swenson’s look and comment remind Marina to move from “father” to “extremely limited initial trial.” Her initial question doesn’t reflect her knowledge of Dr. Swenson. </p>
<p>Dr. Swenson has more expertise than needed for intracervical inseminations. A trip to Manaus, a bit longer stay than usual with no Bovenders on hand, careful records kept. I don’t see logistics as a problem for Dr. Swenson. Remember, too, that the period of fertility lasts almost two weeks with the aid of the Martins.</p>
<p>Dr. Swenson remarks: “I am glad to have conducted this piece of research on myself …” I just can’t see her viewing conception any less research than the pregnancy.</p>
<p>**Ig- that is so funny **
To quote Dr. Swenson (somewhat) and sending along her look of gravest disappointment: “Really, [Mary, QuantMech, and SJCM], you are not serious.” LOL</p>
<p>Random thought- So many CCers express interest in the book selection when it’s announced and Mary13 you post the book, but then we don’t hear from them during the discussion.</p>
<p>Is it possible the period between book selection and book discussion is too long, especially now with Kindles???
It’s so difficult to remember the details two months later, and,yet, it’s so difficult not to read the newest selection right away.</p>
<p>Just wanted to let you know that there are some of us out here in cyberspace enjoying the CC bookclub, but never posting. I have read the last few books, and have really enjoyed reading the discussions, but have never been in a book club before and don’t feel I have anything significant to contribute yet. I’m not used to analyzing books since I haven’t done that since high school which was almost 40 years ago. Maybe as time goes on, I will feel I have something to contribute, but in the meantime, I am really happy this book club exists. I’ve enjoyed all the books I’ve read so far including some earlier selections that I didn’t know about until long after they were discussed, but I took those as suggestions and have been happy I did. So thanks, especially to Mary13, for starting this group.</p>