<p>ignatius, thanks for my laugh for the day. However, in defense of my Theory of the Absurd, I maintain that it is possible that Dr. Swenson, in her goal to conceive, decided to emulate Dr.Rapp, the man after whom she modeled her life:</p>
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<p>Maybe she figured if that method was good enough for Dr. Rapp, it was good enough for her. </p>
<p>I’m just kidding. I think you are right. A long romantic weekend in Manaus with an intracervical insemination kit and a quality freezer probably did the trick.</p>
<p>I put no stock whatsoever into QuantMech’s Jackie Bovender theory, despite his cute boardies. ;)</p>
<p>What do ya’ll think would Marina have done had Anders not been found? Do you think she would have stayed to work in the Amazon or do you think she would have gone back to her old life?</p>
<p>Thanks and welcome nydancemom (and you too, Joblue)! I’m glad that you are with us in spirit. I think your response addresses SouthJerseyChessMom’s post above. My guess is that interest in the book selection is genuine, but many readers prefer to “listen” rather than “talk.” </p>
<p>SJCM, I agree that there is a generous time lag between the new title and subsequent discussion, but I’m not sure how to correct that, since we only discuss a book every other month. My habit has been to wait until about two weeks before discussion to crack open the book (or power up the Kindle :)).</p>
<p>^^^ I lurked for a while before jumping into posting. I really like the CC Book Club because it allows both posters and lurkers to enjoy book discussions. :)</p>
<p>Like Mary, I also wait until about 10 days before discussion to start a book. I’ve occasionally pushed it to only a few days before and arrived breathlessly late to the discussion, which the CC Book Club also allows. I like the every other month discussion set-up. I’m in another book club that meets monthly and truthfully I wish it met every other month. Too many books I want to read and never enough time. My library system allows you to check out up to 70 books at any given time - I find that evil. LOL </p>
<p>Kudos to our intrepid leader Mary, posters, and lurkers alike. </p>
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<p>Another really good discussion question from PATheaterMom! I think Marina would stay in the Amazon - no reason to return to Minnesota, really.</p>
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<p>I think Marina finds satisfaction “doctoring” the Lakashi tribe. With her colleague of seven years gone and her relationship with Mr. Fox strained, Minnesota can wait for a while.</p>
<p>nydancemom - I lurked before I joined. This is also my first book club. When you’re ready, join us, it is a good group!</p>
<p>I agree that Marina would have stayed in the Amazon. Would she have gotten pregnant in the Amazon? Maybe, but would it be for research, or motherhood?</p>
<p>I try to start reading 2-3 weeks before discussion starts. I started earlier this time because school (teaching) was starting. It was too long ago. As far as frequency of discussions, I like every other month.</p>
<p>Here’s something I was wondering about: We are led to believe that Dr. Swenson is an expert in her field, incredibly skilled, with a base of knowledge about the Lakashi that few could hope to match. She has spent decades with the tribe. So did anyone else think it strange that she doesn’t speak their language? That becomes clear when Marina delivers the Lakashi baby. Dr. Swenson is relieved that the husband speaks a little Portuguese, and all her communication with the family during the makeshift surgery is through pointing and eye contact. Her lack of language skills is confirmed a few pages later:</p>
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<p>Hmmm…perhaps not listening too well if she is still unable to communicate with them in their native language.</p>
<p>Compare that to Anders, who has been three months with the Hummocca, as opposed to the 30 or 40 years that Dr. Swenson has been with the Lakashi. He is already speaking the language:</p>
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<p>It’s also interesting that in the first interaction we see between Anders and the Hummocca, he shares food with them. I know it’s for a special reason (to negotiate his release); nonetheless, it’s in stark contrast to the earlier description of Dr. Swenson, who “strictly forbade the sharing of the scientists’ food among members of the tribe.” (p. 215)</p>
<p>I wonder…Who is the better scientist/anthropologist? Has Dr. Swenson hindered her own research by being so aloof and holding herself apart from—and above—the Lakashi?</p>
<p>Great observation–extremely interesting point about the language acquisition. I suspect that Dr. Swenson would have done better if there had been a written text on Lakashi.</p>
<p>Re: what would have happened if Marina hadn’t found Anders – while I don’t believe she would have gone back to work at Vogel OR stayed with Mr. Fox, I do wonder if she would have gone back to “report” to Karen in person. Or would she have just sent Mr. Fox to do that?</p>
<p>Yes, interesting point about language skills, or lack thereof. I suppose for Anders learning the language of the Hummoccas was a matter of survival.</p>
<p>I usually start the book for these discussions about a week before. Any earlier and I’m apt to forget too much! :)</p>
<p>Very interesting point about the language-I hadn’t picked up on that one either. It certainly reflects Dr. Swenson’s feelings towards other people-almost viewing the native people as objects and Anders learning the language and attempting real communication, as well as survival as CBBBlinker noted.</p>
<p>In a way, Dr. Swenson likes the Lakashi and views them more as equals than either Marina or Anders do. </p>
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<p>Truthfully, Dr. Swenson never learned the “language” of her medical students either. She treated her students at Johns Hopkins (her stateside natives :)) much the way she treats the Lakashi tribe. The woman has a unique lack of interpersonal skills. I think QuantMech nails it in her post: “I suspect that Dr. Swenson would have done better if there had been a written text on Lakashi.”</p>
<p>Swenson’s opposite - Anders, yes, of course, but don’t forget Dr. Nkomo:</p>
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<p>I loved the character Thomas Nkomo. I listened to the audio book and can still clearly “hear” his “musical” voice in this passage. Funny - I can “hear” Dr. Swenson, Dr. Nkomo, and Barbara Bovender - no others. I’ve mentioned liking each of these characters - maybe the reader influenced me. (I mean, really, how can you guys not like Dr. Swenson? She’s so … so … Dr. Swenson. :))</p>
<p>I found this discussion while doing some research for my upcoming Book Group discussion of State of Wonder. This is awesome!! All of you provide such interesting and insightful opinions. I had completely missed the hints about Marina being pregnant. I think I was still in shock about Easter and disappointed about how quickly the book ended. I will definitely try to get involved in the next discussion. Where do I look to find out the next book when it is announced? Thanks!!</p>
<p>Welcome, dallasmom! That’s great that you will be joining us. We always have a lot of fun, and tend to get very creative in our analysis at times…:)</p>
<p>The next book will be selected (on this thread) as soon as the current discussion comes to its natural end. We read a book every other month. Discussion begins on the 1st and generally lasts 10 days or so. I imagine we’ll be selecting our next book early next week. When that process begins, please feel free to make suggestions! A little later on, I’ll post the books we’ve read so far, so you have an idea as to where we’ve been.</p>
<p>NyDanceMom *Just wanted to let you know that there are some of us out here in cyberspace enjoying the CC bookclub, but never posting. *</p>
<p>It’s great knowing you are out there, and thanks for responding. We’d love to hear from you (and, others) when you are ready! I wasn’t proposing shortening our reading schedule, Mary13, was just wondering if that might be why some folks don’t particpate-they forget the details. I know I surely do when read too far ahead, like 3 weeks :)</p>
<p>Dallasmom- Big welcome.</p>
<p>PATheaterMom- great question, and I wasn’t so sure Anders would be found. I did expect Marina to stay in the jungle. </p>
<p>Ignatius, so right that Dr Swenson, lived in her own world, disconnected from students as well as the natives.
.** Mary13**, I just assumed Swenson just wasn’t linguistically talented, it wasn’t her gift, although your point is well taken, why wouldn’t such a dedicated researcher mastered the language?
Maybe a bit of Aspergers - ie Dr House, or Doc Martin?</p>
<p>I agree. He is a good man, and seems very intuitive about people. I liked how he was ready to join Marina in rescuing Anders without any thought to his own well-being. He also (along with Marina, of course) contributed to the survival of Dr. Swenson by providing his own blood for transfusion. </p>
<p>As for Dr. Swenson, I do like her. Or at least I find her to have a fascinating, magnetic personality. And even though she is guilty of some horrible things (hard to forgive her for the way she “killed” Anders), she also seems to want to make amends. SouthJerseyChessMom had suggested earlier that Dr. Swenson might not have been too unhappy to see Marina perish at the hands of the Hummocca. However, in re-reading the text, I noticed that when Dr. Nkomo insists that he and Benoit join Marina, he says: </p>
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<p>So it seems that Dr. Swenson did want Marina to be safe, and asked the most competent man she knew to accompany her.</p>
<p>Mary13, strangely, even though I thought the worst about Dr Swenson, I really enjoyed her strength, determination and devotion to her work. She respected the natural order of things, would risk her own life for her research. Single minded, I’d say.</p>
<p>It does appear that Dr Swenson attempted to protect Marina on her expedition, surely Dr Swenson would not sacrifice her fellow worker (s)? Would she ?</p>
<p>Do you think Dr Swenson’s goal in keeping the Hummocca so distant (with bad press as Ignatius suggests), was to ensure that Easter would not be taken away?</p>
<p>Yes, that was my original thought, but now I have one more: It could be that Dr. Swenson also wanted to keep the Hummocca at arm’s length to be sure that they never discovered the Rapps. Remember that Anders told Marina not to give the Rapps to the Hummocca under any circumstances, as it would mean the massacre of the Lakashi people.</p>
<p>Within the first 10 pages of the book, Patchett describes Marina: “Marina was not the kind of woman who fell in love with another woman’s husband, any more than she was the kind of woman who would break into the house at night and steal the grandmother’s engagement ring, the laptop, the child.” (p. 9)</p>
<p>In the last 10 pages, Marina admits to Dr. Swenson that “I would have taken him [Easter].” (p. 346) That same night Marina sleeps with Anders: “She loved him now, but only now.” (p. 349)</p>
<p>Patchett definitely creates a puzzle, plays a game with the reader. Marina falls in love with another woman’s husband (though only for one night). She wanted to steal a child Easter. In a way, she steals a child-to-be from Anders and Karen. Do the events that take place change Marina or reveal Marina?</p>
<p>^^^ So that’s 2 for Marina. What about breaking in and stealing the engagement ring & laptop? Now that I read this part again, it seems like a random list – or is it supposed to have some meaning? Puzzles indeed!</p>
<p>^^^ In my opinion, both random and meaningful.</p>
<p>The sentence feels random, purposely,with the inclusion of “the grandmother’s engagement ring, the laptop”. But … I think the description of Marina as “not the kind of woman who fell in love with another woman’s husband” is definitely a ringer – foreshadowing events to come. I feel less sure about “the child” though it seems such a strange addition to the list, following engagement ring and laptop, showing up as the last word in the sentence. I noticed it as odd when I first read it. I’d go with intentional - if asked on one of those pesky English lit exams.</p>
<p>I think the contrast between early Marina and later Marina also expresses the idea that we do not truly know ourselves until put to the test. Marina’s “I would never”s become “I would under certain circumstances.” That’s a logical transition given her experiences, which remind us that often there is no black and white—just a lot of gray area that you muddle through, trying to do the right thing (and not always succeeding).</p>
However, in defense of my Theory of the Absurd, I maintain that it is possible that Dr. Swenson, in her goal to conceive, decided to emulate Dr.Rapp, the man after whom she modeled her life:</p>
I like the every other month discussion set-up. I’m in another book club that meets monthly and truthfully I wish it met every other month. Too many books I want to read and never enough time. My library system allows you to check out up to 70 books at any given time - I find that evil. LOL </p>