<p>Actually during the depression not everyone married young because who could support a family? My dad’s brothers all lived at home and came and went as they pleased until they went off to the South Pacific. They were working such work as was available and I imagine contributing the the household. His older sister moved out and got married (was a nurse) then divorced abusive husband and moved back home again. In the same family, one brother left home at 16 and never moved back in. This was post war, however.</p>
<p>My dad who was the youngest did NROTC to go to college and hit the ground with a fairly solid job market. However, when he and my mom married and moved to our current town/city they did so on the recommendation and support of one of his older brothers who was here with his wife and family.</p>
<p>Many generations ago??? my parents married at 27 and 24. they lived in their families’ houses till then. My mother and her parents lived in her grandparents home --her parents didn’t have their own home till they inherited it from her mother’s parents. This is not many generations ago. </p>
<p>My H and I lived with his mother for a year and a half when we were first married and then had a baby. My sister and brother each lived as an adult for some time at my mother’s house.</p>
<p>My adult S lives with us. He has a job, pays rent, does his own laundry (of course), and does most of his cooking. He works different hours from us, so he’s not usually home for meals, but if I prepare a real meal, I’ll save him some. We’re away every weekend, and it’s nice to have someone here watching the house, bringing in mail and papers, etc. His phone is on the family plan (as is his sister’s who just moved from an apt to her first house) because it’s cheaper to split–each pays their share.</p>
<p>This weird idea that it’s “the culture” to MOVE OUT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE is fine for those who want it to be that way, but is an arbitrary notion, not set in stone as the ONLY POSSIBLE WAY TO BE A SUCCESSFUL ADULT. I’m mystified by the censoriousness here, but this is also a “culture” that routinely warehouses sick, older folks, and where some people live in adults only communities by choice, etc etc. Stratification by generation is fine for those who want it, but there’s no moral superiority in it–it’s just a preference. Many perfectly well adjusted people of all generations don’t share it.</p>
<p>It’s actually quite simple. When boys/young men received emotional support from girls/women in return for fulfilling expectations in protecting and taking care of the girls/women, they were motivated to become independent and capable so that they could fill those roles. Now, girls give much less emotional support and boys have lost their roles as protectors and providers, and so they are lost.</p>
<p>austin, I can’t tell if you’re joking or not, but imo, that’s a load of crock. Why do males need girls to move out? Why can’t they protect and provide for themselves? Also, just because gender rules have shifted doesn’t mean they’ve disappeared completely.</p>
<p>Same here with respect to my son, zoosermom. Besides, my son’s taking a year before graduate school, and unless and until he’s able to find a paying job that would allow him to pay his portion of the rent for a shared apartment in New York City, rather than just an unpaid internship, it would make absolutely no economic sense for him to live anywhere but at home for that year. Anyone who thinks that being able to pay for one’s own place in a decent neighborhood isn’t a “luxury” for a kid just out of college, is supremely ignorant of what housing costs are in many parts of the USA.</p>
<p>50ishwoman, generations ago it was possible for middle-class students to graduate college without $25-50,000 (or more) in debt. With the few full-ride/no-loan exceptions, not anymore.</p>
<p>Generations ago, high school graduates could take a factory job and make middle-class wages their whole lives. Good luck with that now.</p>
<p>This isn’t “generations ago” and the world has changed a lot since then. What worked in the 1950s of Ozzie and Harriet and Jim Crow doesn’t have much relevance to the world of today.</p>
<p>To me, this seems like a euphemistic version of the following:</p>
<p>When young men could only have sex under respectable circumstances if they married a woman and supported her financially, they had a reason to become independent and capable: it meant that they could have sex without resorting to actions that were widely considered immoral. Now that women can support themselves and people can choose to have sex outside of marriage and are not condemned by society for doing so, men have lost their roles and motivation.</p>
<p>If that’s what we’re really talking about, then let’s talk about it.</p>
<p>That makes three of us. I don’t necessarily want them with me the rest of their lives, but emergencies happen, and if they do, I’ll be there for them as my parents have been for me.</p>
<p>Seriously? To paraphrase Livia Soprano, “pooor them.” If men like that are “lost,” I suspect that it’s because they don’t have wives to step in as substitute moms and take care of them, and do their cooking and cleaning and laundry for them. Not the other way round.</p>
<p>My S is struggling to become a responsible human being every day, for himself. I must say that we consider this more important than any outmoded concepts of manliness. And you know what my daughter doesn’t know how to crochet. (Though I am delighted to say I do because I enjoy it. I think earning my own living got me my seat at the adult table.)</p>
<p>I cast no aspersions on moms who work at home. It just wasn’t my path, and I’m not very good at it.</p>
<p>It is a rite of passage of sorts when our children move out and truly become self sufficient to the point that they are also paying for the roof over their heads.</p>
<p>I know Philip Zimbardo, and his ex-wife is a dear friend. I wouldn’t trust his research or his point of view. What constitutes masculinity varies so much by species and culture that this is painting with way too broad a brus.</p>
<p>Living with parents after college, as a young adult is perfectly fine if all are on board about it. Not so fine and stress when that is not the case. Absolutely not passing judgment on those who prefer the arrangement.</p>
<p>Does knowing someone’s ex spouse mean the research of the other person is wrong?</p>
<p>There are many studies and data suggesting delayed maturity in current young adults
and real issues regarding communication, intimacey, bonding, internet addictions etc from sources other than the above link.</p>
<p>^^^Zimbardo’s research includes the “Stanford Prison Experiment” - the results of which are hard to believe knowing that his subjects were Palo Alto kids. I don’t think it is widely known that his research assistant for this study became his wife. This makes the results less likely, imo.</p>
<p>Just wanting to comment on the effect the presence of a girl in the young man’s life has on his willingness to become independent.</p>
<p>I’ve witnessed many a young man all the sudden stop being a momma’s boy when they finally meet a girl who actually returns their interest.</p>
<p>The boy who never had an interest in driving all the sudden wants a car. The boy who had to be forced to take a bath all the sudden is spending hours in front of the mirror. The boy who was happy to eat chicken nuggets and fries all day now watches what he eats and goes to the gym every day.</p>
<p>I am hoping that one day, my son will be that boy.</p>
<p>He is starting to go to the gym every day, so maybe there’s hope.</p>
<p>My S’s gf made him regress because she was very “anti-adult.” As soon as they broke up he began rebuilding himself on a surer footing. Not generalizing to others – just commenting on one case.</p>
<p>In the case of Zimbardo, I know personal details, not just from his wife but from being in the same community and meeting him that I wouldn’t want to share here. It might not call into question his views on other topics, but I think it has a definition of masculinity that includes license not liberty, in other words, one that stomps on others.</p>
<p>After all, no research is value free. It has to be interpreted within a context, a bias. I was saying that what I know of Zimbardo makes him particularly untrustworthy to me on this topic. I might not feel that way on neutral topics.</p>
<p>And no, it doesn’t make me an expert, but it is reasonable to ask the bias of the researcher.</p>
<p>In today’s New York Times it was reported that close bonds between parents and young adult children fosters more direction, greater satisfaction and more achievement in the younger generation, and that this trend began in 1990, long before the recession.</p>
<p>Most parents counsel, advise, and/or give financial support to young adults. And yes, cohabitating was seen as part of this positive trend.</p>
<p>This is a YMMV and there’s no one right way which is universally better than others. Granted, my familial culture is one which looks askance at attitudes of parents and kids to prefer living separate lives, separating themselves by generation, and yes…the entire concept of “Adult-only” and nursing homes which effectively segregates seniors from other generations. </p>
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<p>Another data point supporting yours…a younger friend who was just out of college ended up losing his self-confidence, spine/self-respect, and became an emotional wreak after dating an extremely immature self-absorbed early twenty-something woman. </p>
<p>While I clearly saw the signs almost from the beginning and even tried to warn him*, he was too taken with her to realize she was taking full advantage of him and that her expectations such as dining 5+ days/week at restaurants like the Cheesecake factory was excessive…especially considering he still had college loans to pay back. </p>
<p>Once six months had passed and he received counseling from myself, a very wonderful counselor type friend, and his parents…he was on the mend and recovered the self-confidence and spine/self-respect he lost while being in that toxic relationship. </p>
<p>At his wedding last summer, his mother came up to me and said she’s thankful he got out of that relationship and that woman will never be a part of their family. </p>
<ul>
<li>Personally, I don’t see what he saw in her as she was extremely immature self-absorbed spoiled brat who wasn’t very intelligent or IMO…good looking. While I tried to be polite…she really reminded me of the laggard clueless classmate who irritated several classmates in a course by constantly interrupting the Prof to ask questions on the most pedestrian points covered several minutes ago because she couldn’t be bothered to pay serious attention and thus, end up slowing the class to a crawl to the annoyance of the rest of us.</li>
</ul>