<p>Certainly a prostitute could be raped, but her profession makes that more of a risk than if she were an accountant.</p>
<p>And when you arrive at the party, romanigypsyeyes, which apparently you’d have decided to attend without knowing anyone there or knowing the hosts, you would also be completely incapable of assessing within a half hour what sort of gathering it was?</p>
<p>GA2012MOM - your post about the hypothetical rape of my hypothetical daughter is truly thought provoking. When I commented earlier about keeping an open mind, I also meant that I was open to examining my own attitudes. Perhaps my views on rape are antiquated? If I was attacked as I walked to my car in a dark parking garage, by myself, late at night, would I blame myself? Yes, I would. I would berate myself for making a poor decision and not finding a security guard or someone to escort me to my car. If I were in college and went to the room of a fraternity brother I barely knew after drinking heavily and was raped, would I blame myself? Yes, I would. And so would my parents. This is how I was raised. My parents always told me to “use my head” - the implication being that if I did something foolish and bad consequences followed, I had only myself to blame. </p>
<p>I am giving the entire topic more thought.</p>
<p>Here’s my question: if “everyone” at The GFG’s HS knew that girls had been raped at football team parties, why did girls–and decent guys–continue to go to them? Why weren’t these known rapists social outcasts?</p>
<p>The same thing applies in Steubenville. </p>
<p>We all know that SOME kids have the wherewithal to reject that kind of scene. What we need is for more of them to have it. Until the majority, male and female, publicly turns on these beasts and views them with the scorn they deserve, this will not stop. I think the current trend in which more and more victims are speaking up and refusing to be silenced is a huge step in this direction.</p>
<p>I can’t get my head around the idea that young women would voluntarily associate with guys whom they KNEW were rapists. Even if they were at the top of the social pecking order for some unknown reason.</p>
<p>“only myself to blame.”
Really? (I am not saying that in a mean way, just surprised.)</p>
<p>I never said she asked for it, or deserved it, or caused it to happen. I said she made unwise choices, which put her at risk.</p>
<p>“Here’s my question: if “everyone” at The GFG’s HS knew that girls had been raped at football team parties, why did girls–and decent guys–continue to go to them? Why weren’t these known rapists social outcasts?”</p>
<p>My answer is one that makes others uncomfortable. Daily made to feel powerless in …, they actually look up to those who, in their eyes, have managed to reclaim some semblance of power. And rape, remember, is all about power.</p>
<p>(And once they make it to colleges, like my alma mater, many of them are already hardened CRIMINALS, looking for their next prey.)</p>
<p>Quick question/not legally savvy – </p>
<p>Will the label/registration/designation as sexual offenders be a lifelong stipulation? </p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
<p>Well, although I have talked to both my 19yo S and 13yo D about such things before we will be talking about it again. Do I feel bad for the football players, yes, but I also feel they got what they deserved. Unfortunately, this is probably something they felt was acceptable because others before them has not been punished. OTOH I feel much worse, as the parent of a 13yo girl for the victim. We really have to start punishing this type of behavior for it to stop. It starts with the adults, parents and coaches.</p>
<p>So is someone who made choices which put her at increased risk less of a victim when she is raped? Would you reduce her sense of justice by giving her rapist less punishment? If so, why do you have less expectation of her rapist to not rape? Because she is asking for it?</p>
<p>“After a while, you’d have to be an idiot not to know what you risked if you drank too much with the wrong people.”</p>
<p>Do teenagers usually do a good job of weighing this sort of risk? </p>
<p>I think you’d have to be an idiot to try your first cigarette, but virtually all the high-SAT teens in my high school class did it. I expect teenagers to act like idiots sometimes, especially when they don’t have good guidance from adults. I DON’T expect them to act like predators.</p>
<p>you all really mean to say that your teenagers have NO CLUE at all which parties might be trouble</p>
<p>At virtually every party that I remember in my youth( With the aid of ginkgo biloba)
, there was over consumption of alcohol/drugs by someone.
I lived in the first tier suburbs & don’t remember any differentiation in " tiers" of parties other than some had kegs of beer & were in the woods & some were in a lakeside house with hard liquor & cocaine.</p>
<p>When you live in a rape culture- there isn’t any such thing as a “safe” or “unsafe"party, or a " safe” or " unsafe" way to dress & act. They all are equally provocative and dangerous.</p>
<p>Wear a knit top & you are condemned for showing off your body.
Wear baggy clothes and you are berated for trying to hide what God gave you.
No matter what the circumstances, the victim must be held responsible so that we do not have to look at the way we objectify females from the time they are born.
Females are to be controlled and if they step out of line from our expectations then whatever befalls them is not our fault.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>My urban public magnet HS had a population of around 3,000 and one doesn’t always know everything about anyone…especially considering most of us had public transport commutes of 1-2 hours each way. </p>
<p>While my HS has an image of having good high academic achieving students who most would consider solid kids by association with its name…we had some dubious types classmates…including gang members. </p>
<p>Only thing was that unless you were close enough to those groups to be in regular contact with them OUTSIDE the HS campus during evenings/weekends for YEARS, most of us wouldn’t have known about it. Kinda hard when most of the student body was widely dispersed throughout the NYC area. </p>
<p>In fact, it was only after graduation that I found out some HS classmates were part of Chinatown gangs. Found out about it from reading about it in the local papers when they were arrested away from the school. Wouldn’t have known myself as I didn’t associate with them…especially during evenings/weekends and grew up far from the Chinatown area. </p>
<p>That and those gang members…even members of rival gangs seemed to have had a quiet agreement to keep all gang business or even acknowledgements as such off school grounds to avoid bringing embarrassment to the institution and unwanted attention from the authorities.</p>
<p>Your post, mini, captures some of the complexity I have been trying to bring out. People DID still go to those parties, and still do today. I would be very sad if my daughter were knowingly one of them, and would likely feel I had failed to provide a home life which met her emotional needs, leaving her susceptible to wrong choices out of a desire for acceptance from a popular or powerful group.</p>
<p>I have always been a teetotaler, and when I was pledging a sorority, was told in no uncertain terms I wasn’t being “hospitable” enough to the frat boys/men by not drinking with them (I drank out a bottle of water that I opened or can that I opened). I did not make it through pledging.</p>
<p>I refused to attend parties where I didn’t know anyone, particularly if I was driven there by a male I didn’t know well but only as an acquaintance, even if it meant breaking a budding relationship.</p>
<p>I have made some unwise decisions, particularly choosing to walk alone at night after I ate a meal at a meeting that ended after dark. Fortunately, I have suffered nothing but a little fright from these experiences and the knowledge that I have been lucky to not have had worse consequences, particularly given my poor sense of direction in strange cities. Going forward I will catch taxis home for my peace of mind and that of my friends.</p>
<p>I have taught our D not to accept drinks other than when she knows whomever poured them VERY WELL, or open a bottle or can herself. She and her friends always come and leave TOGETHER (especially from parties) and I sincerely hope would NEVER abandon a GF, especially one who appears to be “wasted.” We have also taught our S to be cautious, but as he is naturally very cautious, it is 2nd nature to him.</p>
<p>While no one deserves to be raped or a crime victim, we can all do our best in our current society to reduce our chances of being victims. </p>
<p>Sadly, I believe A LOT has to change before this machismo sports violence against women culture changes, as it doesn’t appear to have improved at all in my lifetime, only worsened and further exploited by social media. In the meantime, we can only do our best with ourselves and those we have influence over, including our kids and loved ones.</p>
<p>The Amherst committee on sexual assault touches on the problem of their upperclass women coercing first-year victims to not report. It could be it makes them feel better about their own victimhood, that they can talk themselves into pretending they weren’t violated by the men who constitute their social circle.</p>
<p>The upper class women were right. They shouldn’t report it to anyone in the college administration unless they report it to off-campus police first.</p>
<p>At Amherst, 5% of women report they were raped (not sexually assaulted, but raped) in the previous year. Figure out what that means over four years. There are a lot of CRIMINALS on that campus…</p>
<p>1moremom - yes - I always thought I had only myself to blame.</p>
<p>In one instance in this particular case, this young woman was lying face down on the ground in the middle of the street vomiting and a guy was behind her between her legs digitally penetrating her. </p>
<p>In what world is a girl lying face down on the ground puking in the middle of the street sexually provocative behavior? </p>
<p>I don’t even understand half of what is being discussed right now.</p>
<p>Why are we talking about her drinking or attending a party with her friends, and not about boys who would do such a thing and what can be done to change them?</p>
<p>electronblue, THAT is truly horrifying.</p>
<p>It seems to me that far too many kids have formed their notions of what it means to be a person of worth from Girls Gone Wild videos and TV shows that make it clear that to be hot is everything. Remember “Hot or Not”? talk about degradation.</p>
<p>You’re right, poetgrl. This case in particular makes it abundantly clear that its all about power, and nothing else.</p>
<p>mini, I agree, 911 first, and for God’s sake, follow-up mental health assistance independent of the college health center or deans. But I don’t think they were encouraging any reporting.</p>