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<p>If only parents and other adults did fear social host liability for allowing underage drinking, maybe the adults would take more responsibility for tolerating this sort of thing. I’d be very pleased if all the parents/homeowners in the Stubenville case as well as similar cases faced serious charges resulting in major fines/jail time. Apparently, this isn’t the case.</p>
<p>Those who think the girl bears partial responsibilty, why are you emphasizing that aspect of this case & not that we are doing a pretty poor job of teaching our young men that women & girls are not garbage.</p>
<p>Certainly personal responsibilty needs to be taught in schools. My daughter had extensive education on this subject in health , as it applied to her exercise & food choices, as regarding sexual behavior and health, and as it related to emotional maturity.</p>
<p>I hope that those who are concerned about these kids choices work to improve education and education funding in all states, but especially in states like WV…</p>
<p>West Virginia ranks 47th in the nation in education, according to The Annie E. Casey Foundation’s annual Kids Count Data Book.</p>
<p>[Kids</a> Count report ranks W.Va. as one of worst in education * - News - The Charleston Gazette - West Virginia News and Sports -](<a href=“http://www.wvgazette.com/News/201207240207]Kids”>http://www.wvgazette.com/News/201207240207)</p>
<p>In order for there to be a prosecution, there needs to be someone who is willing to complain loud enough that something be done. Since one of the homes involved is a prosecutor, there might not be a willingness in Stubenville to “go that far.” I agree if adult hosts were held liable, this might make them think more seriously about what they’re doing.</p>
<p>In our state, a social host was found liable for a criminal offense when a minor female died drinking alcohol on his premises. Can’t remember the details.</p>
<p>rockvillemom—sending a virtual hug. I admire that you can also see how your own personal victimization influenced you. I think many times people are influenced by their own experiences. </p>
<p>Many of us also try to find the “reason” someone was a victim, as if by assigning poor judgment as the reason, they feel safer as they would never be in that situation. This is a normal human defense mechanism at work because this stuff is too darn scary to imagine happening to people we love.</p>
<p>and NO I am not saying we all shouldn’t be careful and caution our daughters about safe behavior and reducing risks, because there are PREDATORS who might take advantage of them in a vulnerable location or state. Taking precautions to reduce risk does NOT equal being to blame if one is actually assaulted/raped.</p>
<p>The world in many ways is more dangerous for sexual violence against women than men. It is important for us to try to teach our loved ones as best we can to do whatever is in their power to reduce their odds of being victims. </p>
<p>This is one of the reasons we had a double-standard and made sure that the car we gave our D is VERY reliable and fairly new while the car we gave S had to only be fairly reliable and was many years older than the one we gave D. While we didn’t want either of them to have their car break down, we felt that young females are ESPECIALLY vulnerable if their car breaks down. Unfortunately, in our predatory culture, I still feel this is the case.</p>
<p>I had to take a break from this thread and come back. </p>
<p>As some of you saw on the Penn State thread, I am a survivor. My abuser never paid for what he did partially because of his position of power in the sports community and in our local community (though he was a middle aged man rather than a young teen). I was lucky in that we had the resources to pick up and move to another city after the whole thing. I was a pre-teen and my whole family was shunned from the community. I am certain I was not his first victim nor his last but there was a massive cover-up. I was just one of the few who spoke out because I understood that what he did to me was not OK. </p>
<p>I cannot tell you the number of times that I was asked “are you sure this is what happened?” by the cops. Want to know how many times HE was questioned? 0. A big fat whopping 0. </p>
<p>We interrogate and scrutinize victims. Make excuses for the criminals and very rarely do they ever pay for what they did. We create an environment where survivors are terrified to come forward, and it is exactly because of what people in this thread are doing. “I’m not blaming her but…” (yes you are) and “But what about the alcohol?!” (What about it? Different issue and to equate underage drinking to rape, as though they are even in the same universe, is mind-boggling). </p>
<p>I’m really, really, REALLY just sick of it. It needs to change or more of our daughters (and sons) will be forced to undergo this same thing ** through no fault of their own. ** And we’ll continue to have so-called adults questioning these young men and women about what THEY could have done different.</p>
<p>rvm, it wasn’t your fault. The fact that you thought it was shows how deeply our rape culture reaches.</p>
<p>Two girls in Steubenville were arrested for making death threats towards the victim! Something is seriously wrong in that town. </p>
<p>[2</a> arrested for allegedly threatening Steubenville rape victim](<a href=“http://news.msn.com/us/2-arrested-for-allegedly-threatening-steubenville-rape-victim]2”>http://news.msn.com/us/2-arrested-for-allegedly-threatening-steubenville-rape-victim)</p>
<p>rockvillemom - I’m so sorry for your experience. Hopefully all of this soul searching will lead to some real healing for you. Romanieyes - ((((hugs)))) to you too. I’m not so familiar with the Penn State thread but what you just wrote speaks quite eloquently by itself. </p>
<p>Teenagers need to engage in some risk taking activity - it’s part of growing up and becoming their own person, separate from their parents. It’s our job to help give them those risks and challenges, while modulating the risk from real and unnecessary danger. Unfortunately in our culture, there is no absolute safe place from rape. Nuns have been raped. If we lock up all women and make them wear burquas, they can still be raped. Of course we should behave as safely as we can but we must also change our culture as much as we can to abhor rape and violence.</p>
<p>romanigypsyeyes–of course you needed a break, also glad you came back. we need your voice. your experience is horrifying, that YOU the victim had to move and the abuser did not pay. that is unacceptable! we need to learn from you. </p>
<p>I hope those insisting that somehow this 16 yr old’s alcohol consumption is relevant to the rape takes notice of how this reinforces blaming the victim.</p>
<p>No it’s easier to blame the victim like in Sandusky’s case than the more powerful criminals and seeing the real problem of glorifying violence, alcohol and athletes who are Gods that can do no wrong.</p>
<p>Thanks to Romani and RVM for their courage in sharing their pain so we can learn. There no quick and easy solutions. We can raise our kids as well as we can but our culture really has some major flaws which these incidents only magnify.</p>
<p>The way the media has covered this, showering sympathy on the rapists, is outrageous. Check this out:
[CNN?s</a> Steubenville Coverage Matches 2011 ?Onion? Athlete-Rape Parody Video | Thought Catalog](<a href=“CNN’s Steubenville Coverage Matches 2011 ‘Onion’ Athlete-Rape Parody Video | Thought Catalog”>CNN’s Steubenville Coverage Matches 2011 ‘Onion’ Athlete-Rape Parody Video | Thought Catalog)</p>
<p>“What if we looked at a minor consuming alcohol for what it is? A crime. But let’s not do that!”</p>
<p>In many if not most states, it isn’t a crime, but a “civil infraction”. There was an interesting case in Washington, DC where the judge ordered the police to stop treating it as a crime, which it isn’t.</p>
<p>Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.</p>
<p>My dad and I just had a conversation about this. I’ve written before that my dad is a feminist (though he will never admit to it) and was the reason that I had the strength to come forward. He taught me from a young age what was and was not appropriate. Probably at a young enough age that many parents would have felt uncomfortable discussing things like that with their children. I am so grateful that he did because it’s how I knew that what happened to me was not OK. He is also a sports fanatic, like me, and was a varsity athlete in high school for 3 years. He quit his senior year because he got fed up with the culture (what we now know as rape culture). This was late 70s, early 80s. He was sick of going to parties and needing to call the cops because women were being taken advantage of. Of course, back then, there was no such thing as “date rape” (gag) and the cops did nothing. My dad never drank so he was the sober one who just tried to keep the girls safe. Eventually he just stopped going because there was nothing he could do. The coaches knew. The other athletes knew. No one did anything. No one cared. Boys will be boys. </p>
<p>This culture has been around for a long, long time. It is nothing new- we just have instant access to that world now that outsiders may not have had a generation ago. As a female athlete, it was different. We are not given the same privilege as male athletes. Even though we can hold our own on the court or the field, we’re still ultimately female and will never fall under the boys will be boys category. When my teammates got MIPs, they sat out. When one got an underaged DUI, she was benched for the season. Would this have happened to a male athlete? Almost undoubtedly no. Then again, I didn’t know many male athletes so I can’t say whether or not they did. I do know one male athlete at my high school who had assault charges pressed against him (rugby player) because he hit his gf. He never sat a game. </p>
<p>This rape culture and “boys will be boys” culture is deeply, deeply entrenched and has been for generations. My generation is no better unfortunately and it’s partially because we were raised by parents with this mindset. It IS changing but too slowly for my tastes.</p>
<p>rvm, I am so sorry. What an awful thing to have happened. I hope that this thread is somewhat healing for you, rather than just bringing back bad memories.</p>
<p>Attitudes toward rape are changing rapidly. I think that in large part this is due to women who have been brave enough to “go public” with their experiences of sexual assault. There was a young woman on the panel of the Melissa Harris Perry show last weekend, and two young women who had been assaulted on campuses who were interviewed. All of them had become advocates, and they were very effective.</p>
<p>I imagine that only a small minority of rape victims have the kind of personality that would allow them to be so open, but these few are having a large effect.</p>
<p>sopranomom, I saw the CNN/Candy Crowley/Poppy ?? clip yesterday. I found it shocking and disgusting, especially coming from two women.</p>
<p>No it’s easier to blame the victim like in Sandusky’s case than the more powerful criminals and seeing the real problem of glorifying violence, alcohol and athletes who are Gods that can do no wrong.</p>
<p>Scary how eerily prophetic the onion parody was of a similar incident. Mom is always convinced that the victim is at fault. Unfortunately the media always makes it out that this conviction ruined these lives–not their brutal and criminal actions. I could never have reported what that woman reporter did–my sympathy is with the victim and her family. Hate that these criminals were glorified.</p>
<p>I just want to say thank you for your kind words and supportive comments. What happened to me took place 30 years ago and I try very hard to never think about it. If I could erase it from my mind completely, I would happily do so. When I think back to the days and weeks afterwards, all I remember is being very embarrassed and ashamed. I did not discuss it with anyone. No one in my real life knows that I ever went through this experience. I am still digesting the remarks that it was not my fault. I can’t change 30 years of how I view this incident in one evening. But you have opened my eyes and I am thinking about it in a different light. And maybe I can learn to stop blaming the victim.</p>
<p>No sadly the reporting glorifying these convicted rapists is showing that the culture IS NOT changing much nor fast to most of us. Our flagship U has recruited some of the convicts and given them scholarships! Making me lose stomach for spectator and pro sports (tho never cared much for them to begin with).</p>
<p>[CNN’s</a> Steubenville Rape Coverage Draws Petition Demanding Apology](<a href=“CNN's Steubenville Rape Coverage Draws Petition Demanding Apology | HuffPost Latest News”>CNN's Steubenville Rape Coverage Draws Petition Demanding Apology | HuffPost Latest News)</p>
<p>Apparently many people are angry with CNN’s coverage and are asking for an apology.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2013/03/18/cnn-no-comments-outcry-over-breaking-coverage-of-rape-verdict/[/url]”>http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2013/03/18/cnn-no-comments-outcry-over-breaking-coverage-of-rape-verdict/</a></p>
<p>And CNN has decided on " no comment" as their response.</p>
<p>The victim’s behavior may have contributed to the events of that evening, but that in no way excuses the boys for what they did. If we buy into that idea, we also buy into the idea that women shouldn’t wear “provocative” clothing - yet that’s what is marketed to teenage girls - or do anything else that increases their risk. When do we instead take action with the boys and men? When do we start getting the message to them that there is no such thing as implied consent?</p>
<p>Initially, I was upset by CNN’s coverage of the verdict, but as I thought more about it, I think their intentions were good - the implementation left a bit to be desired. I think they were trying to do the right thing: tell other teenage boys that this is what happens when you rape a girl, that it not only has a lifelong impact on her life, but it can have lifelong impact on theirs as well. They came across as too sympathetic to the boys, but I think the message was still there.</p>
<p>I also think that there will be more significant implications for one young man, and unfortunately not for the other. I do’t buy Mays’ apology - he’s sorry he had to face trial, but this won’t ruin his life. Richmond, on the other hand, is a young black male whose father wasn’t a good role model (obviously Mays’ wasn’t much of one either). His apology seemed much more sincere - and I believe he was the one that tried to mitigate the damage from the beginning. He probably got caught up in the moment, and then didn’t know what to do.</p>
<p>I don’t feel sorry for these boys, but I do hope all of this publicity will help get the proper message across. What they did was wrong, and what a number of other people neglected to do was also wrong. I hope they bring charges against those who didn’t cooperate with the investigation. I also hope someone goes after the adults in whatever ways they can. Those who tried to brush this under the rug, and those that allowed this to happen in the first place. I hope someone out there isn’t scare of offending the wrong people.</p>