<p>That shirt would be cut up to use for car washing. I’m no prude, but that is entirely unacceptable and the fact that other parents were okay with this is beyond outrageous.</p>
<p>My Ds went to an all girls private school which really emphasizes “girl power,” the study of heroic female protagonists in literature, female historical figures, etc. That kind of shirt would never have made it out of discussion because the girls would have killed it first if a coach had ever stupidly suggested it.</p>
<p>…and another T-shirt story. A friend has a son on a hockey team in a neighboring town. These T shirts were worn by students from her school at a hockey game against their arch rivals. (I changed the name of the town/team.) The shirts said:</p>
<p>“I’d rather take a shower at Penn State than be a Centerville Panther.” </p>
<p>My friend said the shirts were produced by the father of a team member, who was also a teacher in that high school. I know that this created a controversy and parents objected, but I don’t know if any action was taken.</p>
<p>The laughter of those (dirty dance) moms may have been more nervous than approving. Gallows humor, if you will. It’s impossible to tell without being there.</p>
<p>zoos,
Forgive me, but I am not understanding what you are saying about the girls in the 5th grade class. Yes, many are physically maturing earlier (probably a discussion of hormone-injected chickens and other foods is a topic for another thread). In what way were they more active in the classroom?</p>
<p>One study of 4000 college women had 3% report rape or attempted rape in the academic year.</p>
<p>Several studies indicate a much higher rape/attempted rape of females in the military during their term of duty.</p>
<p>zoosermom, all the stats indicate that acquaintance rape is by far the most prevelent circumstance. The most at risk seem to be poor, single/divorced females and their under age children and the most likely perp is the mom’s live-in or drop in.</p>
<p>There is a segment of society that thinks beauty pageants for young kids (with fake teeth, hair and makeup to make them look like little women or dolls) is acceptable. And I see plenty of stuff at dance competitions that I find completely offensive and inappropriate (not at my daughter’s studio, or she wouldn’t be going there).</p>
<p>Also, does anyone else remember those stretchy rubber bracelets that the kids were wearing a few years ago…when my now-HS sophomore daughter was in maybe fifth or sixth grade? Apparently among some kids the color bracelet you wore signified what sort of things you would be willing to do with boys. I do think some of this is normal exploration and curiosity (heck, when I was in grade school eons ago boys and girls would routinely show each other their private parts behind a tree on the playground). But a lot of it speaks to a culture that sends girls mixed messages. Having said that, a girl can be as promiscuous as all get out and it still does not give anyone the right to force her to do things against her will.</p>
<p>I said I was surprised that parents would react that way.</p>
<p>Upon further reflection, I’m not. </p>
<p>How many times has one heard about a father being proud of his son’s supposed sexual prowess. (Which of course involves nailing as many females as possible, not giving his partners pleasure. :rolleyes: ) There are also plenty of women who are more proud of their D’s looks and conquests than they are of her brains or athletic ability or character. Think beauty pageants for little kids, for example. Especially the sort of woman who suffers from what I would call the Stockholm syndrome when it comes to rape culture.</p>
<p>I’m still appalled. But I seem to be appalled a lot of the time these days.</p>
Sexually active. Touching boys, touching themselves (calling attention to bras was a very big thing), using very graphic language. I have seen this with my own eyes and I am not a liar. It’s just a different culture than what some others are used to. Like I said earlier, it’s a big country and there are a lot of different people.</p>
Absolutely. That is why I disclaimed the connection to the specific topic. I was just making the point that I don’t think the dirty dancing story is a lie.</p>
<p>It is appalling that that kind of behaviour is permitted/tolerated in the classroom. If the girls are inappropriate, in word or action, they should be sent to the office or whatever is the procedure for inappropriate behavior. Dont know if the teacher was unaware or overwhelmed with other things, but hopefuly there is a school policy/dress code delineating acceptable and unacceptable behavior.</p>
<p>Poetgrl, Thank you for your posts. All of them. You are eloquent, consistent and fact based. </p>
<p>theGFG, thanks for not throwing in the towel. I share your concerns about the over sexualization of girls in our culture.
To all of those who have shared their stories, esp rvm, thank you. You have helped me to understand people in my life.</p>
<p>I have spent the last few days reading the accounts of this case and the Amherst and Williams stories.<br>
What has struck me about the Steubenville case is how dehumanizing the perpetrators were and how casually they behaved. I do think that the availability of internet porn plays a role in all of this.</p>
Jym, no offense, but I never said whether the teacher did or didn’t deal with this behavior, just that it had happened. Of course she dealt with it, there was an excellent guidance counselor, as well. But the point I was making was that there are some kids who are raised in less than optimal homes with parents who encourage behavior that most of us would find inappropriate and upsetting. As for the teacher, she can set rules like “keep your hands to your own body” and enforce them, but once the cat is out of the bag, it stays out.</p>
<p>Does anyone else remember the discussion about bikini car washes a few years ago? You know, using your D’s BODY to lure people–presumably men-- in to raise money?</p>
<p>I seem to recall that some people thought that those of us who disapproved were just being prudish sticks-in-the-mud.</p>
<p>ETA: Yes, Cartera. Especially if they are taught from the cradle that that is a woman’s only worth.</p>
<p>Glad to hear the inappropriate behavior was dealt with, zoos. Thats the point. In the school building it is surprising to me that inappropriate behavior would be tolerated, and hence my surprise.</p>
<p>I have friends who teach in high risk schools, and the stories they tell about the sad home situations, the lack of inolvement of the parents, the expectation of many parents that the school should address all their kids needs, etc. is awful. Some are ESL teachers, and say that its futile to try to call parents about the child’s behavior or academic issues, and many of the parents do not speak English and simply put their kid on the phone to translate, and you can imagine how that goes. Friends who teach in the more affluent schools deal with the pressure from parents to change grades, deadlines or requirements and then allude/threaten to file complaints if they don’t cowtow. There are many sad stories on individual bases, but if the group mentality is that these behaviors are appropriate or acceptable, then there is a bigger problem to address.</p>
<p>As an aside, we don’t have HBO, but happened to flip though channels when at a hotel recently. The stuff on HBO during regular viewing hours made my eyes pop out!! Its way more than just the availability of stuff on the internet.</p>
<p>A few years ago, when my son was in elementary school, a “thing” among the girls was that they all became “Awow” “Bwow” “Cwow” or whatever Wow like the girl on Jersey Shore. Now to my mind, she was not an appropriate role model for little girls, but they watched the show with their moms, they dressed the same way as the Jersey Shore women (as did their moms), and it was completely pervasive. Just a different culture.</p>
<p>I actually think, personally, and have said this before, that the culture itself is sexually abusive to girls, growing up, and, as my husband says, “this isn’t good for the guys, either.”</p>
<p>I think we are so inappropriate in what we are showing on television these days that a young woman no longer has to live with an abuser or be abused in “fact” to exhibit the symptoms of a sexual abuse survivor.</p>
<p>The shows on MTV are sooooo mislabeled, and most of them should be TVMA, frankly. I don’t care if they block out the breasts with blur. Does anybody think the kids don’t know the people are naked? But, as long as we allow the media to self-regulate, and as long as we accept that we are “responsible” for what our kids watch, as if they never go to other people’s houses, or can’t get on the internet? We will continue to see these abuses.</p>
<p>At one point, in spite of having a sixteen year old in the house, we kept the parental controls for children, literally, little kids. If anybody wanted to watch anything else, they had to come get H or me. they didn’t.</p>
<p>One evening my daughter called and wanted to come home from a slumber party. They were watching the real world and she was horrified by it. When my oldest was 12, a neighbor took it on herself to let my kid watch Coyote Ugly. I was ****ed.</p>
<p>But, the internet porn is violent and dehumanizing, and they really aren’t trying to keep the kids off of those sites.</p>
OH MY GOD! I was watching The Vikings with my son last night from the DVR. We had watched The Hapsburgs, Byzantium, and the Roman Empire so this seemed great. Well let me tell you. I almost fell off my chair when the woman started talking about riding her husband like a bull. Really? Even if I wasn’t with my 14 year-old son, I would have been bothered by that.</p>