<p>We have family members (XY) that run on XY time. All are aware of it and do adjust invitations to these family members accordingly. </p>
<p>I have/had? A friend that I no longer make plans with because not only was she often late, but she was totally unashamed about canceling when another event conflicted! I switched to never offering to entertain at my house after getting stuck with food/drink purchased for the event, then to only solo outings so that my entire family would not be disappointed, to now only group plans in which we are both included by someone else. I have not seen her in over a year. It is rude to repeatedly “tell” others that they are not worthy of your precious time, often at the very last minute, when they have already committed theirs. </p>
<p>I think this is exactly what the chronically late think.</p>
<p>I am glad the subject of ADHD came up. We have a lot of it in my family too. The solution is generally establishing “fake” departure times and aiming for those.</p>
<p>I also agree that there are cultural differences at play. My English father is chronically early, even to dinner parties. Two of my best friends, a gay couple, are always late but it’s a predictable amount of time. They call it “being on Gay Time.”</p>
<p>DW is late for almost everything. I used to think it was only about being inconsiderate, but she’s also late when she is the one who will suffer the most: flight check-ins, showtimes, picking up her prescriptions before the pharmacy closes. In other parts of her life, she tends to assume that the best-case scenario is the one that will occur, so she rarely has a back-up plan for anything.</p>
<p>My ex husband was always 30 minutes late and I have an uncle who is always an hour late. I adjust the times accordingly when telling them when an event is starting. Both have ADD. </p>
<p>I emphasize being on time to my kids, who have difficulty with it as teenagers. I’ve noticed, though, that the message seems to sink in, even if it doesn’t become apparent until they’re in their 20s. I remember my son’s difficulty being on time with a particular girl, one that he really cared for and wanted to be closer to. I tried to explain how she would get a very different message if he was always late, blah blah blah. As it happens, she saw past it and they had a long relationship :)</p>
<p>Re dinner, I’m the idiot who arrives on time. If you meant 8:30, say 8:30. Don’t say 7:00 because you wanted me there at 8:30! I call myself the idiot in this regard, but honestly!</p>
<p>My wife works with many people in Europe, so it is not unusual to be on a conference call scheduled for early morning EST. There is nothing quite as disrespectful as getting someone to dial into a call at 5 am and have the meeting start late. The worst is when they insist on a video conference at 7am (and for security reasons it can’t be Skype (and they don’t use Blue Jeans) so you have to physically be in the office) and then get to watch people straggle into the meeting over the next half hour. </p>
<p>I work with seniors, many of whom have the opposite problem - they show up half an hour (or more) early for everything. Fine, but it’s annoying when they bug me about when will the dining room open and when will the speaker get here and when does the performance start. On time, that’s when.</p>
<p>But I know two seniors who have obvious … well, I would say personality disorders, but I’m no expert. They have obvious compulsions, and they are 45 minutes late for everything. One has figured out that she won’t be accommodated, and I wonder how she has gone 80 years without modifying her schedule so that she doesn’t miss the first 45 minutes of every activity on it. The other expects to be accommodated, and is wounded when she isn’t. I wonder even more how you go 80 years without figuring out that you are not the center of the fricking universe.</p>
<p>We have relatives that run late ALL the time. They get a lot of crock pot meals when they come here…and they are usually eating long after the rest of us. </p>
<p>At DD’s graduation from college, I was driving the vehicle…and I made it VERY clear that if folks were not in the car by MY predetermined time, I was leaving without them. They made it…but by seconds. The car was already running.</p>
<p>I’m an early bird…can’t stand being late…or even barely on time.</p>
<p>ETA…those late folks…in my opinion it is selfish AND it is a control thing…showing that others can’t tell THEM what to do. </p>
<p>My close friend and her family has been coming to my New Year day gathering for the last 16 years since my daughter was 2, to also celebrate my daughter’s birthday (a New Year baby), I do not recall they EVER come on time in those 16 years. We even gave them an hour earlier starting time after a few years of them being late, so instead of being 2-3 hours late, they would be at least an hour late. Don’t get me wrong, they aren’t the type who party till the wee hours on new year eve, and they usually are just home on New Year day, so for the life of me I can’t understand why they are late every year. When they finally showed up, I would joke about “what took you guys so long?”, I did not have the heart to say too much to avoid hurt feelings. So food have to be reheated for them while everyone else was done eating long ago and were enjoying nice conversations.</p>
<p>Well, my daughter’s 19th birthday is coming up, so if I plan on a 2pm party, I should tell them it is going to be 11:00am! Maybe that will solve the problem. :(</p>
<p>My mom is 10-15 minutes ate and my dad is about 15 minutes early. If the kids were getting picked up for some reason they always wanted to know who it was so they could plan accordingly. If it was my dad they would put on shoes and coat almost 30 minutes ahead of the scheduled pick up time and if it was my mom they wouldn’t really get ready until the time.</p>
<p>I have a girlfriend who runs really late - sometimes into hours. He difficulty is trying to pack too much in. She gets ambitious and thinks she can fit in one more errand or mow the lawn quick before changing. She had to learn to be on time when her son started sports and got to where she could be mostly on time for things like that. I carpooled her once and had the timing calculated back to when her kid would be prepping to go out on the water. She wanted to stop for coffee and I wouldn’t let her. I let her out of the car and told her to go as fast as she could directly to their boat while I parked. She made it and was thrilled and thanked me later for making her be on time for her son. She really wanted to be there but someone doesn’t make the if A then B then C calculations about how to make that happen.</p>
<p>With her it isn’t just a casual laziness or disregard for people or events.</p>
<p>that, in a nutshell, is the philosophy of many/most ADHD EFD folks. </p>
<p>It’s the ADHD EFD memory-less system that drives me nuts. They don’t learn from bad results. Negative Consequences are supposed to be the best life lessons…but not to them.</p>
<p>I wonder what would happen if you wrote a list of times of when “best case scenarios” didn’t occur and she had a bad result, and then reminded her on an occasional basis? I do keep a list of times that I trot out to back me up when H questions why we have to go somewhere early. </p>
<p>I remember when I was a little kid and my parents promised to take us to some Disney movie that had just come out. We weren’t late, but it was sold-out when we arrived. I have NEVER forgotten that night, nor the disappointment. Taught me a huge lesson…show up VERY early to popular events when admission is limited. No one in my H’s family would ever learn that lesson. They would tell themselves that the Disney movie issue was a one-off and won’t happen again…even if it happened again and again.</p>
<p>I think I’ve told this before, but one of my BIL’s was in charge of his Honeymoon Plans for their summer wedding. His then-fiancée told him her dream-location (a drive-to location which is super-popular for honeymooners). He agreed, and she never thought to check back with him. After their early-day wedding, they got into the car for their long drive. Upon arrival, they learn that there are (of course) no vacancies. BIL had never called ahead to make reservations. He thought that they could just “show up.” Of course, the entire area was completely booked. No honeymoon. </p>
<p>When I first heard the story, I wondered why MIL and others had never asked him about the honeymoon plans, etc, which would have clued him in to his mistake…but later I realized that an entire family of ADHD EFD folks are only looking out for themselves, so there are no such questions or discussions going on. </p>
<p>My kids have the problem that their plans require perfection to work out. I tell them that your plans should allow a one or two standard deviation of imperfection. For example, with zero traffic, to get from my house to midtown Manhattan would take 25 minutes (has never happened, maybe at 3am). With normal traffic, it takes 45 minutes. To accommodate for bad traffic, give yourself a bit more than hour to get there. Usually, I leave 1:10 before the scheduled time, and have a cell phone to call ahead if I’m more delayed than that. My obligation to be on time has to be capable of being implemented without being onerous. </p>
<p>My kids would give themselves 40 minutes. The optimism of youth is wonderful. :)</p>
<p>I used to be late when I had little kids AND a full time job and a working spouse AND a house & pets to take care of AND was trying to get in the occasional workout and meet up with a friend (heck, to even find time to HAVE friends). Forget about sleep… 10 pounds of stuff in a 5 pound bag for many years. I am almost never late now that kids are in or out of college.</p>
<p>DH is chronically late, and I can see elements of many of these explanations in his behavior. Sometimes it is being overly ambitious as to how many things can be accomplished in a given amount of time. Sometimes it is not planning on traffic contingencies. Sometimes it is just not being aware that he is causing a problem, which is a form of selfishness. Sometimes it is (imo) a passive aggressive response to others being annoyed that he is not ready yet. </p>
<p>His lateness has caused much anxiety and resentment through the years, not just with me, but also with our Ds, who are very conscientious about being on time. As mentioned in a previous post, he also has suffered with missing flights or other consequences and doesn’t seem to learn from those mistakes.</p>
<p>He has gotten better over the years. His mother once told me that her father (who died when DH was very young) was exactly the same way, and her mother would seethe and stew, always to no avail.</p>
<p>I have a girlfriend who is just like this, only even worse than DH. Always some dramatic event precipitating the tardy arrival. DH would get so annoyed having to wait on her. I’d say, “Seriously? YOU are annoyed?” </p>
<p>One thing that bothers me the most about DHs lateness is that when I question him about whether he will be on time THIS TIME, he always gets really irritated that I would doubt his sincerity or that I remain unconvinced he will be on time. Then he is late as usual, and this really ticks me off after having been told in a haughty manner that HE SAID he would be ready.</p>
<p>And round and round we go. </p>
<p>As I said, though, he has gotten a bit better. And he has many wonderful qualities. This is just a character flaw he has that is unfortunately so at odds with my “be on time if not early” personality.</p>
Good gawd yes. DW allocates 100 minutes for a drive that requires 100 minutes when there is no construction, little traffic, and she can drive 5MPH over the limit. Drives me crazy.</p>
<p>@Nrdsb4, it sounds like adult ADHD, tbh. I’m not a doctor, but I’ve been diagnosed with it. My solution to being tardy was becoming pathologically punctual; same problem but a better solution. </p>
<p>You raise the (funny) point that many tardy people, especially those who have ADHD, have zero tolerance for being kept waiting themselves. </p>
<p>I was always racing out the door as a kid - missing the school bus and forgetting things. Now I am pathologically punctual (which means 10-15 minutes early) for everything. My newly diagnosed ADHD kid is the same way with racing to be on time. It is very important for him to be on time but the planning out is a struggle. He makes it but just barely. He has run to school more than once and used to say he was just getting in his cardio by running to the bus. Because I am an early I have spent years reinforcing the importance of being early or at least on time and the mechanics of how to plan that out backwards. He does better than most, actually, and I think a lot of it has to do with the step by step tutoring year after year. Between music and sports he has had a lot of opportunities to be places in a timely manner.</p>
<p>I joke that my DH can’t tell time. He used to play a particular sport every weekend which, after several years, I decided to no longer attend with him. But when I’d ask him when he expected to be home, I’d get a crazy optimistic and unrealistic answer. I’d have to help him figure out that no, if he was playing a one-hour game that started at 1:00 PM, he would not be home by 2:00 PM.</p>
<p>But you can be darn sure he was on time for the start of the game!!</p>
<p>I forgot to include THAT in my upthread post. This is a biggie. Those with ADHD EFD either think that they can get 5 time-consuming things done in one day or they think that they can get one time-consuming job done in 5 minutes! </p>
<p>Sometimes it is not planning on traffic contingencies. </p>
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<p>Well it is a form of selfishness if they have been told that they are causing a problem. This can be more effective if they are told at the time that they are complaining when someone ELSE is keeping THEM waiting. </p>
<p>I think a few of these folks would get better if we adopted the AIS approach from Everybody Loves Raymond. If your fanny is not IN SEAT at the appointed time, the others are leaving without you. </p>
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<p>My FIL would do this…drove us all crazy. </p>
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<p>At a calm time, have you asked her why she does that? And when asking, have you mentioned the times that the 100 minute allocation has failed? </p>
<p>^ The only absolute disaster that would ever occur would be a missed flight. So far that hasn’t happened. If DW arrives at the airport so late that the check-in people have to phone the gate and have them hold the flight, she figures she’s beat the system. If we arrive late for a show, she claims she doesn’t care and thinks I’m strange for minding. So there really are no failures in her mind. They only exist in my mind.</p>
<p>I should add that handling disputes is my weakness. I chimed in on this thread because it seemed amusing to do so, not because I really want to fix anything.</p>