I will know more what my daughter did in her test after break. I am ready to accept whatever outcome it is if my daughter deserve what she gets in the test. What my real worry is if the teacher has a beef with her and deliberately trying mess with her, cutting half the points because you missing a dot or comma something are things that you can not fight against. In reality our education system should encourage children to learn concepts. In another incident another teach was no nice with her that he let her complete a page of test that she accidently missed a few days after the test.
You sound like a terrific and caring parent. But you need to get out more in the real world if a bad grade on a math test is making you anxious, disappointed and broken-hearted.
It doesnât sound like the teacher is out to get your D. It sounds like your D advanced in math too much and too soon. Which is no reason for disappointment. Would you let her drive before she was tall enough to see out the rear view mirror? Would you let her go whitewater rafting before she could swim?
I think a meeting with her guidance counselor is in order, rather than trying to view a test sheâs already taken. Try to find a way for her to drop back in math to plug in the holes in her prep, or just to get faster in the calculations she already understands. Surely the school teaches a math class which is geared towards where she is- not where you and she want her to be???
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If a math teacher takes points off because work is not shown correctly (1) this is normal (2) everyone in the class would have the same issue.
Why would the teacher have a beef with her? I feel you are looking for other explanations because you donât want to accept the one that seems to be staring you in the face. Sheâs not ready for this level yet. Itâs not a failure to regroup and drop a level so that she can be successful later - in fact she can learn a very valuable life lesson by doing this.
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I teach APCSA. Many of my students are good at math, some better than I am. From my observation, those who are really good at math (not just getting As in class but also doing well in competitions) donât âwork hardâ. They have worked hard in their earlier years (up to pre cal) to establish the solid foundation. In advanced courses and topics the most time they spend on is to make sense of the abstract concepts. Once thatâs done, the application is straightforward.
On the other hand, those who are not that good at math do well in high school and college too. Every year I see some students going to top 20/30 universities without taking calculus in high school. Thereâs a reason Calculus is a college course. I just had a chat with a former student who âchickened outâ of cal AB in high school, went to a top 20 university, graduated with two majors, and is currently getting paid 6-figure salary at a consulting firm. Their best friend who âchickened outâ together is now working in a pharmaceutical company after getting a chemical engineering degree from UT. They both learned calculus in college. Without the pressure of getting A and scoring 5, the course was not as hard as they thought.
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I have to disagree. children should learn how to learn (searching and gathering resources to figure out unknown things). Our current K-12 education system encourages children to remember then reproduce, which is not really learning.
I didnât go back to the earlier thread. Do you know this teacher having âbeefâ with another student? has your daughter had âbeefâ with another teacher before? My experience is that teachers want the students to have higher grades. Their lower grades make us look bad.
If you want to confirm if the teacher is grading unfairly, you should ask for a conference involving the administrators. You will have to trust the administrators to check the teacherâs grading. I donât think you should be given access to another studentâs work to crosscheck the grading, but the administrators can check.
There could be several different outcomes. I doubt the teacher would confirm that theyâre only grading your daughterâs work harshly but nobody elseâs. Even if they did, the admins wonât allow them to say it since this will cause a heavy load of trouble for the school.
One possible outcome is that the admins say that the teacher has graded too harshly and should give more points. The results is that your daughter will have higher grades, likely the entire class will all have higher grades too. I have personally had to do this because my class was âtoo hardâ and the expected valedictorian in my class was about to lose their place since the expected salutatorian was in an âeasierâ AP class.
Another possible outcome is that the teacher gives your daughter a retake of this test, likely some other students would have this opportunity as well, and all get a higher grade from retake. I have to do this several times so the borderline students can pass; however, itâs always the top students who are eager to retake a test and improve from 95 to 100.
It is also possible that the admins donât find this teacherâs grading harsh or unfair, and the current grade stands. The teacher may offer tutoring to all students with low score, then give a makeup test after tutoring. Depending on the teacher and students, some actually benefit from such reteach and retest since one on one tutoring can be really effective.
One possible outcome (or byproduct) you may not want is that the teacher now knows you think theyâre unfair, and in turn becomes unfair to your daughter. Itâs not likely, but possible. A mean teacher can do so much harm without doing anything âwrongâ. Suppose I have a parent-teacher conference regarding student A. Itâs not confidential information, and I can casually let it slip that Iâm meeting with Aâs parents. The day after the meeting, I can say in class something like âthereâs a slight change in grading policyâ and glance at A. The class will know that whatever change must be a result of the parent meeting the day before. If itâs a change they donât like, guess who is taking the blame? Most of the teachers know better to not behave this way; however, thereâs no guarantee. My own children have witnessed similar incidents multiple times (theyâre not the hypothetical student A).
Of the above possible outcomes, thereâs one scenario where your daughter may actually improve her learning. I would suggest that instead of doubting the teacherâs fairness, just ask for one-on-one tutoring (or call it office hour if tutoring doesnât sound right).
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OP- I am writing this with love-
You need to uncouple how hard your D works, how diligent and serious she is about her studies, and the grades she gets and where she ends up in college.
Your current construct- "she deserves "XYZ is a recipe for anxiety- surely for you, and likely for your D.
Every year, we read sad posts on CC from parents whose kids âdeservedâ to get into Princeton but had to settle for Northwestern because âsome undeserving kidâ took their kids place. It doesnât work that way. Princeton takes who they take. Sometimes itâs not the kid with the highest GPA and very often itâs not the kid with the highest test scores. Thatâs their call. So when I read these posts- I feel terrible for the poor kid who is trudging off to Northwestern feeling like heâs been sentenced to four years in the federal penitentiary instead of excited to be starting college.
I know kids like this IRL. The parents pushed and pushed, the kid worked diligently, the entire four years of HS was devoted to âGetting into Collegeâ and then the end result? Someone is disappointed and the kid internalizes all that sadness and pressure and those feelings of having let their parents down.
Your kid is taking a senior level math class before sheâs a senior. Iâd ask why. Your kid is struggling-- and you seem convinced that either the teacher is taking off points unfairly or that somehow-- what exactly? Objective math- you either calculate the correct answer or not- should become âconcept mathâ because your D understands the concepts but canât get to the right answer in the appropriate amount of time?
Please take a step back.
I failed a class in college. Not a C, not a D, but an F. Trust me- I understood the concepts. But half the grade was the midterm and I got a C, and half the grade was the final and I really bombed it.
Guess how often I think about that class? Maybe a few times a year when I tell the people who work for me 'Your life isnât over if you fail. Failure is good. Knowing how to come back from a failure is better learning than excelling at everything all the time with minimal effort".
They usually donât believe me and Iâm sure you donât either. But struggling in calculus is for sure not the biggest struggle your D is every going to experience. You can believe me on that.
Hugs to you.
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As I read through the thread, I suspected that this was lurking in the background, though I didnât see it expressly stated before.
Is that the reason that dropping the course and taking it later is not on the table? Is that the reason sheâs in a course that accomplished students usually take junior/senior year in the first place? She may have pushed herself (or, I suspect, was pushed) too hard too fast.
If it were me, at this point, Iâd get to the guidance counselorâs office first thing, get her transferred out of the class and try again next year or senior year.
A lot of kids get into top schools without taking calc sophomore year. Thatâs just a fact. I have three of them myself, one of whom went on to grad school for math at a tippy top. Yes, rigor is important, and Iâm sure some ad com at some school or other would be impressed with calc sophomore year, but not with a C grade. If you want elite college placement, you need to know that the C will jump out and scream much louder than successful calc done early ever would have. That is, unless youâre an athlete, and it doesnât sound like she does much else besides homework. So, unless you are a member of the Firestone family and sheâs applying to Princeton, you have to eliminate the C.
âWork harderâ is not the same as âwork smarter.â
ETA: the liklihood that the teacher is just picking on her is very low. I wouldnât spend time on that theory. I would also add that whatever schools you/she hope for are not going to change the way they teach and test math for her. so, again, I would not waste energy fighting that fight, and find a way to get her out of the class.
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This should be pinned to the front page of the site.
I think, too, we havenât seen the full brunt of how this is going to play out socially. There is an entire generation of kids who disappointed their parents by not getting into this or that school, and who have internalized that disappointment, who are going to be raising children and running the world very soon. What will they be like with all that psychological baggage? How will they raise their children? I love the Ted Lasso quote: hurt people hurt people. And they do.
And the crowd of parents who need to read what you wrote? They are among the hardest people to get through. You may as well be arguing about Israel and Gaza.
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I have 2 sons. One who went to a state university and got an A- in Calculus 1 as a freshman. He had to kill himself to get that grade.
My youngest son is at a US News top 10 school. He is a double major (an engineering discipline and CompSci) with a GPA above 3.9. He took what were described by an advisor as weed-out classes as a freshman (Calc 3 & Physics with Calculus) and got a 100 and a 97. He had a perfect score on his SAT math and 5s on all of his math & science APs. I say this not to brag because he is the first person to admit that he is not close to being at the top when it comes to mathematical ability even in his circle of friends at this school, much less his current class as a whole.
The people at âtop schoolsâ donât have to work hard or reinvent themselves to get good at math. They are just naturally really good at math. It is like the people you knew in high school who could run really fast. They were always fast. It was a natural ability. This perspective may seem harsh now, but it will hopefully give you a rational context for expectations for college admissions.
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Thank you so much for valuable inputs. Does anyone know, what would be implication to retake the class.
Does it depend on state by state?
Does it depend on school district by state?
Could the school deny it based on the current grade not being below C (or any other reason?)
if school denies it, it is a good idea to do it via independent study ?
if same school allow it - Next year, how would the GPA be calculated?
Do we have to add old course grades for retaken course in college application ?
P.s - I hope I do not sound over ambitious, I feel there is value in taking an informed decision.
There is no other day to thank more than this week to all the member who take time read my message, shared their opinion and and above all their love. I feel the same way for all of you. 
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You need to talk to the school and get their guidance.
The student is in 10th grade so one C likely isnât death - even if they moved to stats. After all itâs 10th grade but either way theyâll move up in college so they will need the foundation which clearly they donât yet have. Or perhaps STEM wonât be for them.
Worry about how to make your student happy, not about how to get to Harvard because with no EcS all top schools are likely out anyway.
The good news is any flagship or other private will have plenty of super smart kids.
Talk to the teacher and math head about next steps - whether even to continue in spring
All of these are questions for your kidâs teacher and guidance counselor.
BUT- do not even THINK of an independent study for a course that your kid has struggled in. Thatâs a sure fire way to get her to HATE the material. If you think itâs been hard for her this semester with an actual human being as a teacher to ask questions, other students to bounce frustration off of (hey, did that example make sense for you? Me neither⊠can we get her to review it tomorrow?), just wait until she has to go it alone.
Independent studies are great for a topic that a kid loves, wants to explore in greater depth than is possible in a regular high school, and which come easily. So a kid who loves literature-- sure, if the kid wants to do an independent study on Latin American writers because the HS curriculum is focused on the Brits and the Americans- fine. But self-teach calculus after a semester of struggling? NO.
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I would say no. The several people I know who could successfully do independent study on math topics were really really good, the kind of good that are close to International Mathematical Olympiad (IMO) level. I knew several formal students who scored 800 on SAT math before starting 11th grade and went to HYPSM later. when they did independent study (ran out of math course to take) it was under the supervision of the Math department head (who holds a Ph.D. in math), and they were following college course curriculum.
Your daughter will be successful on what she chooses to focus. One of my students last year failed my class, but heâs like Mozart and composes beautiful music. He will
definitely succeed in the music industry. Programming is just not his thing (another âmy mom made me do itâ).
The 10th grade studentsâ main goal should be to explore and to figure out their likely passion, not to narrow their vision down to several universities. Success can be gauged by many ways but certainly not by which university one attends or graduates from.
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With all due respect, I beg to disagree about your opinion @tsbna44 @blossom @somethings on independent study. Some schools unfortunately makes the day to day unnecessarily hard and discouraging kids. For example cutting 50% marks for missing a comma or writing unit. I donât think I ever said my D does not like math. She loves Calculus besides some of the hardest APs. The struggle âwasâ to be able to page long match problems. My Q was more about logistics of independent study how it fits well with a course already taken at school. Not so much she likes the course or not
Could it be that the day to day is unnecessarily hard because a particular 10th grade student is in a class they should have taken in 11th or 12th grade?
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If she canât grasp with a teacher sheâs unlikely to grasp without.
You should be talking to the teacher and head of math.
They are the experts and most familiar.
And she needs extra curricular interests too to possibly achieve your elite school goal although letting her be a kid is a better goal.
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of course, you know your daughter and I donât.
Iâm just curious, since you describe your daughter as successful in math until this year, which is likely because the grading is unfair (my understanding from your posts), she should have done well in PSAT (that covers up to Algebra II). Itâs a standard test so the grading is objective. Has she taken it? If not, there are practice SAT exams she can take and use as reference. Without prep, a student with solid Algebra skills should complete it with 3 mistakes or fewer. I may not remember correctly but the students I knew who were successful in Cal AB or BC (scoring 5 without having to work hard) had close to perfect math scores in PSAT and SAT.
From ChatGpt 
A C in an AP class does not automatically ruin your chances of getting into elite colleges, but it may have an impact, depending on your overall academic profile and the competitiveness of the college. Elite colleges typically consider many factors, including:
- Course Rigor: Taking AP classes demonstrates a willingness to challenge yourself, even if the grade is not perfect.
- Overall GPA: A single C can lower your GPA, but strong performance in other classes can offset it.
- Context: Colleges often consider your transcript within the context of your school and personal circumstances.
- Extracurriculars and Essays: These elements can heavily influence admissions decisions.
Strong AP exam scores (even if unrelated to the C grade) can help mitigate concerns. Focus on highlighting strengths and addressing challenges in your application essays.
I would have her go to extra help sessions and also hire a tutor. An effective teacher and tutor will be able to assess her skills, meet her at the level of her weaknesses, and go from there. I am not sure why she is in AP calc right now.
I would take the focus off of Ivy League schools. She is in 10th grade and her focus should be HS.
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I guess we all have our own view of what is an âelite collegeâ in the US. For me, it is the IvyPlus schools. At those schools, MANY students had Calculus AB teachers in high school that werenât very good, or had biases, or that made things unnecessarily difficult, or all of the above, and they still got As in Calculus AB.
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