Stuck in awful marriage

Parent Cafe
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<p>Sadmom, I’ve just read this thread from beginning to end and, like those above me, I wish you strength and I’m sorry you’re in this position. No easy answers…I do think it’s incredibly hard to not want to please someone you <em>love</em> and, also, not to want to do everything you can to avoid angering someone who has anger issues. Kudos to you in taking the first steps of this journey, wherever it may take you.</p>

<p>I’m posting because, early on, some suggested you start documenting events, behavior, etc. in the event you end up in a position where you need to ‘prove’ your allegations about your husband. Lots of ongoing suggestions about therapy, pros and cons on the effects of divorce on kids of all ages, the legality of taking kids across state lines but this suggestion seems to have fallen by the wayside.</p>

<p>It sounds like you have concerns about writing something on your computer or online and it somehow becoming public. One poster suggested you use code words (i.e. like we do here–H, D1, S1, S2) which would work. Others may have suggestions too but I like a site called ohlife.com. You can write whatever you want (like a journal) and it is stored “in the cloud”. I get an email each evening asking “How did your day go?” and can write if I want. (I can also delete the email and not write.) I periodically get an email saying (for example), “90 days ago you wrote: …” and what I wrote will be in the email which can be a great reminder. I don’t know that much more about the site but I assume you can access what you’ve written at any time. My initial reason for creating an account was to focus on the positive and I wanted to write 3 things each night about positive things that happened that day, why I’m fortunate, etc. Unfortunately, life got in the way and I end up deleting the email 9 out of 10 nights. Still, seems like it could be a great tool that might work well for you.</p>

<p>Very best of luck to you.</p>

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<p>*Originally Posted by mom2collegekids
I do not understand why anyone would criticize you for this…and I don’t know why a verbally/emotionally/whatever abusive person would expect someone to have sex with them. Do people expect you to be some kind of sex slave or sex prisoner…treat you badly and then hop in the sack? I don’t get this.</p>

<p>========== </p>

<p>I don’t think anyone was criticizing her for that, just pointing out that it could be one of the factors in the current dynamic with her H.*</p>

<p>OK…but, to me, if “no sex” is causing the H to be further upset, I don’t understand why he’s not asking himself, “am I loving/loveable?” “should she want to have sex with me after I’ve just yelled at her about _____ ?” I don’t get this. I’m not advocating “witholding sex” as a punishment, but “not having sex” after someone has been mean/cruel is just normal. It’s not like she’s witholding sex because he won’t buy her a new car. That’s different. </p>

<p>Some of this is reminding me of earlier threads where I mentioned a theory called, “the marble game,” where the “mean” person is really upset that he/she perceives that the other person has more marbles than they have (is smarter, richer, powerful, talented, likeable, etc). When they attack you over some minimal thing (like leaving an item on the counter), they are trying to diminish your marbles.</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/1112882-touched-sore-point-marble-game-theory.html?highlight=marble+game[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/1112882-touched-sore-point-marble-game-theory.html?highlight=marble+game&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>The above thread was the result of the following thread.</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1110426-husband-blames-me-ss-waitlist-post12270348.html?highlight=marble+game#post12270348[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1110426-husband-blames-me-ss-waitlist-post12270348.html?highlight=marble+game#post12270348&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>OP-
Wishing you the best of luck. Hopefully you will find a wonderful psychologist with whom you can work thorugh these issues privately.</p>

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<p>I’m sick today, just checking in to say that I’m reading everything and am very grateful for all the posts. </p>

<p>About the poster who outlined this situation from my husband’s point of view, including the probability that he feels bad because I’ve moved out of the bedroom, I didn’t feel attacked or judged by this, and the poster is absolutely right. I know that my husband is very much affected by this, and it has moved our relationship into a worse state. But I had to separate myself to that degree in order to survive here. So it’s a bad cycle.</p>

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<p>^Don’t beat yourself up about it. We all do what we have to do in order to get by. It is a bad cycle but sometimes you really need to protect yourself emotionally first and foremost. I gather he probably knows that you’re pretty unhappy at this point.</p>

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<p>*About the poster who outlined this situation from my husband’s point of view, including the probability that he feels bad because I’ve moved out of the bedroom, I didn’t feel attacked or judged by this, and the poster is absolutely right. I know that my husband is very much affected by this, and it has moved our relationship into a worse state. But I had to separate myself to that degree in order to survive here. So it’s a bad cycle. *</p>

<p>It’s this kind of stuff that leaves me scratching my head. When a person hasn’t been pleasant/nice to their spouse on a regular basis, and that spouse moves into another bedroom, why wouldn’t the person ask themselves, “what am I doing to cause this?” “Am I being lovable?” </p>

<p>We all read similar situations where the working mom is too tired for sex after working “two jobs” (home and family) and then the guys complain. Why don’t they ever ask themselves…“Gee, if instead of relaxing on the couch while my wife is running around tying up loose ends around the house, if I help with these chores, then she’ll be done at - say 8 - and be rested for sex later.”</p>

<p>Where’s the self analysis that should be going on?</p>

<p>???</p>

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<p>Year’s ago, when my ex and I were in counseling, this subject came up. The counselor explained that sex was physical for men and emotional for women, and that my ex just couldn’t possibly consider that there would be an emotional reason to not want to have sex.</p>

<p>I typically hate gender stereotypes, but this fit my ex and me perfectly.</p>

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<p>Year’s ago, when my ex and I were in counseling, this subject came up. The counselor explained that sex was physical for men and emotional for women, and that my ex just couldn’t possibly consider that there would be an emotional reason to not want to have sex.</p>

<p>I can understand that. But, eating is “physical” and when we’re upset, we lose our appetites. Frankly, it’s kind of sick to think that a man can verbally/emotionally trash a woman and then want/expect to have sex with her. It has an almost criminal/violent/anti-female aspect to it. Aren’t men supposed to progress beyond that animal-like, uncivilized behavior? </p>

<p>Further, I don’t like this kind of thinking that women are supposed to subjugate how they feel about sex to accommodate the men’s “physical” way…their way of thinking doesn’t trump our way. Why aren’t they told, if you want to have sex with WOMEN, then accept that we have an emotional attachment to sex? If you don’t like that, then …well…don’t have sex with women.</p>

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<p>when we’re upset, we lose our appetites.
Some people eat more.
Some people want to have sex when they are upset because it takes them out of their heads/emotions.</p>

<p>Sex can also heal a relationship. or start to.</p>

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<p>Some people want to have sex when they are upset because it takes them out of their heads/emotions.</p>

<p>I can understand maybe wanting to have sex when you’re upset at something ELSE…something that is outside of the couple. I can’t imagine wanting to have sex with someone who has just verbally trashed you or physically abused you.</p>

<p>When men can’t move beyond the “sex is just physical” idea…then there’s no reason for them not to have affairs…after all, it’s just sex…just physical…just a big O…move on.</p>

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<p>This reminds me of the scene in A Streetcar Named Desire when Stanley (unforgetabbly played by Marlon Brando) and Stella have a huge fight where he is abusive and she runs upstairs. He yells for her Stella and she eventually comes down. The next morning Blanche is shocked to discover they obviously had sex and asks how Stella could do that and she explains how the make-up sex is exciting, etc Stella tells her “You take it for granted that I am in something that I want to get out of.” I agree that it is difficult to understand from the outside, but in many relationships that have a cycle of abuse, the making up part is a step in the cycle and one that keeps some people from leaving. This is often what makes it difficult for women to leave a man who is physcially abusive.</p>

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<p>I think some men are able to morph the original hurt into something outside the relationship. The original distancing incident might have been something between the husband and wife, but the man might “translate” that into: I’m stressed about work. Thus I need to relax. </p>

<p>I’m theorizing here, but I believe that for men, they can easily forget the thing that made you upset, or pretend they don’t understand it, or possibly truly not understand it, and for them, sex is the answer. Even if there wasn’t a question.</p>

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<p>but I believe that for men, they can easily forget the thing that made you upset, or pretend they don’t understand it,</p>

<p>Im generalizing- but I feel men are better at compartmentalizing their emotions.
their partner may feel she is being targeted/blamed or even abused, & I understand why she wouldn’t want anything to do with her partner.
However the man may feel he is just " venting", even thinking he is within appropriate boundaries.</p>

<p>I am not saying I am interested in sex after a fight- but I have found that sex can be therapeutic even before either party is able to work out verbally their differences.</p>

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<p>^I think that’s probably true in a normal relationship where there’s a give and take, emotionally, and each partner is willing to listen to the other person and they each genuinely care about the well being of the other person.</p>

<p>But in the relationship OP describes and in other abusive relationships, sex is not about working through issues in a physical way – it’s about power, and control, and one person having it over another. So sex becomes an extension of the verbal abuse – not a way to solve it.</p>

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<p>*the making up part is a step in the cycle and one that keeps some people from leaving. *</p>

<p>Oh I “get” the idea of “make up sex”…apologies, hugs, kisses, sex. </p>

<p>Maybe I’m dense, but I don’t think that’s what the OP’s situation is. It doesn’t sound like her H is lovingly apologizing (for anything or much)…so there wouldn’t be “make up sex.” More like…'Memory-less sex"…“Pretend I haven’t just trashed you because I don’t feel the least bit guilty about it sex.” She supposed to forget that she was just verbally abused and just “put out.”</p>

<p>However, if the OP says that he typically sincerely apologizes and “owns” his angry outbursts, then that might be a different situation. But, if he trashes her, leaves the room, never apologizes, and then later in bed would expect sex (when they were still sleeping in the same bed), then that’s just nutty. And, a woman who would have sex in that situation would surely hate herself later…wouldn’t she?</p>

<p>*I’m theorizing here, but I believe that for men, they can easily forget the thing that made you upset, or pretend they don’t understand it, or possibly truly not understand it, and for them, sex is the answer. Even if there wasn’t a question. *</p>

<p>I can see that. I guess the OP’s H doesn’t see that he’s made the OP upset by complaining about something left on the counter…he probably thinks that he’s the one who has the right to be upset because she didn’t follow the rule (his rule).</p>

<p>I wonder if the OP’s H views their home as “his home”…and not “their home.” It sounds like he thinks it’s his home because he (and only he) sets the standards…clear counters, etc. </p>

<p>Awhile back, there was a thread that I mentioned asking spouses if there were 5 faults that each was allowed to have that the other wouldn’t EVER complain about…and just accept (because we’re all human with faults). I think every couple should do that. It would be interesting what the OP’s H would say if she asked him, “What 5 faults am I allowed to have that you will never complain about.” I’m not talking about really bad faults like getting drunk, bouncing checks, abusive behavior, etc. I’m talking about minor things like…leaving some dirty dishes to do in the morning, forgetting to make the bed, minor stuff…</p>

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<p>^^I agree it is not the OP’s situation. I was just responding to your comment that it’s hard to understand people who do have sex with an abuser, etc. It’s probably easier to be clear-eyed when that is not happening in the relationship.</p>

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<p>My husband never, ever, ever apologizes or even admits that he’s done something wrong. He is also incapable of feeling guilty. This has always astounded me, as I always feel guilty.</p>

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<p>Substitute husband/he with wife/she and I know the story all too well. </p>

<p>My wife explains: “It’s not my fault, because that’s how women are!”</p>

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<p>I have a dear friend I met when our now 19 year olds were 2 year olds in pre school. She’s a brilliant woman who is so powerful and capable yet from the time we became confidents, I saw that she was inexplicably (to me) remaining in a really bad marriage.</p>

<p>Her husband is a bully, a poor father and just not a nice person. Over the years as he forgot her birthdays, became more and more bad tempered, retreated from family life and became more and more verbally abusive, I think she came to hate him. </p>

<p>Her family encouraged her to stay with him for the kids. She felt this is what she was doing, but she was also very concerned about how a divorce would effect her financially. They are affluent and she would have been fine, but moving down was not attractive.</p>

<p>So they lived in separate rooms and barely talked for years. A year ago her mother died and she inherited quite a bit of money. Finally, after 20 miserable years, she was able to leave. She started looking for houses and saw a divorce attorney. I’d never seen her so happy. </p>

<p>Before she could tell him she was leaving, she was diagnosed with a terminal illness. Crazy, unbelievable, beyond sad. </p>

<p>It’s been a roller coaster ride with her where he’s concerned ever since. She did move out although she’s increasingly in no position to care for herself. He carries the health insurance so she’s somewhat beholden to him. And in the end she’s decided to punish him with money, or lack thereof. He has been counting on her family money for a long time…</p>

<p>So I have a dying friend who is finally out of the marriage she’s sure caused her cancer. We all need to take care of ourselves.</p>

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<p>My husband never, ever, ever apologizes or even admits that he’s done something wrong. He is also incapable of feeling guilty</p>

<p>I remember a Dr. Phil episode a long time ago, when an H insisted that he didn’t yell or scream and that his wife was exaggerating his behavior. Then, Dr. Phil showed the videos from their home (which the H knew that there were cameras in his home)…and there the H is…yelling in a very ugly fashion…very ugly and SCARY!!!. The H was amazed at what he was shown…really believably amazed (or an amazing actor!). He seemed to have NO IDEA that he sounded/looked like he does when he’s upset/angry. He was ashamed of his behavior, which was a sharp contrast to how he’d been before…never ashamed.</p>

<p>Is it really possible for a person not to know how ugly they’re behaving?</p>