Stuck in awful marriage

Parent Cafe
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This may or may not do any good. When I would complain to H that I felt he criticized me too much his response was: “You’re just too sensitive. I think you have a mental problem. Maybe you should see a psychiatrist about that. From what I see it probably runs in your family. Yada, yada.” </p>

<p>In other words - more abuse. It wasn’t until we had the marriage counselor sitting in the same room and H couldn’t just heap on more abuse and run away that he actually had to sit there and listen to me. Really listen. And try to have a rational (albeit mediated) conversation.</p>

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<p>My husband to this day says he was blindsided by my leaving. I was so angry at that point I even refused to do martial counseling. My one regret is that I didn’t hammer it into his head that I was serious. I think he would have made some changes before it got to that point.</p>

<p>Don’t be too hard on yourself. If you had said, “I am going to leave unless _________ changes,” your H may not have really taken you seriously. Moving out, buying a home, etc, were the actions that your H could see that you “meant business.” Prior to that, he probably thought you were just “blowing smoke,” when you expressed dissatisfaction about this or that.</p>

<p>Frankly, I doubt your H was truly blindsided, unless the truth is that because you’re the nicest person in the world, he never thought you’d leave.</p>

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<p>^I think you’re right. In many ways, leaving was the best the I could have done because he takes me very seriously now. I didn’t leave with the intention of returning, it just worked out that way.</p>

<p>I would add that, IMO, the OP is right to be upset with the way her husband is treating her. Sounds like he might have some anxiety/OCD issues. However, I know in my own marriage, we both had poor communication skills and we have since worked to improve on those and it has made a world of difference. We still have our ups and downs but I’m glad we reconciled and have worked on it. I can’t predict the future but I like the fact they were are still together despite going though some rough patches. It has definitely made our marriage stronger.</p>

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<p>*Sounds like he might have some anxiety/OCD issues. *</p>

<p>My sister (a therapist) has said many times that anxiety issues and depression often have very similar symptoms and often go “hand in hand”. Sometimes very hard to diagnose which one it is…and it can be both. </p>

<p>*However, I know in my own marriage, we both had poor communication skills and we have since worked to improve on those and it has made a world of difference. *</p>

<p>The lack of good communication seems to be a common denominator. Others have posted their stories here of spouses telling them that they’re being “too sensitive” or whatever, when they try to address an issue. The OP has said that her H shouts her down when she tries to speak up. Even in counseling that can be a problem. </p>

<p>My sis has told me that she’s had a few couples that she couldn’t work with because the H’s wouldn’t let the W’s speak during their sessions. The H’s would take their turn and tell “their side”, but when the W’s would then have their turn, the H’s would interrupt or “shout them down” before the W’s could get more than a couple of sentences out. As soon as the W’s said something that the H’s didn’t like, the H’s would try to shut them up by talking over them, saying that they’re lying, etc. Once my sis had to push a security button she has in her office because she really was concerned what the H would do. There truly are people out there that cannot bear to have their spouses “speak their minds” and voice what’s bothering them in their marriages. The H that became scary was angry when the W revealed how much he drank each day. </p>

<p>So, it can be a catch 22…if such a couple tries to do counseling together, then the “bully” will shut his spouse down. If they do separate counseling, then the bully doesn’t tell his counselor the truth. </p>

<p>Just look at the OPs situation. If the H were to go to counseling by himself (with the attitude that there’s nothing wrong with HIM), he’ll just say stupid things like, “My wife is crazy. I work like a dog to provide for the family, I have some painful health issues, and my wife doesn’t understand why I’m not the “life of the party” at home.” (See, I’m the victim here.) :/</p>

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<p>I think you are a great communicator, at least with the written word. I liked your story and I’m glad you worked it out.</p>

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<p>One of the things that bothers me is some of the posts that to me are saying, in effect, that H’s actions are somehow okay, that his controlling the OP or his demeaning her or whatever is because of his physical problems or feeling out of control and so therefore he should be cut some slack, and that to me is outrageous. The problem here is he for whatever reasons can’t/won’t do anything about it and is making the OP miserable. Sure there are two sides to a story, but it is obvious the OP is feeling real pain, despite this being an anonymous forum talking about something so hard even here is extremely difficult, something is wrong. I am not bashing the H, I more then understand how things like that work, I know what stress does, I know what it is like to have financial burdens and so forth, so I am not unsympathetic. On the other hand, I also know what those things can make someone do and how miserable it can make others around them. The attitude of explaining away why H is doing what he does reminds me to much what used to happen when a spouse would beat up their mate, it was often explained away by cops as being “you know, the poor guy was drunk, he works really hard, has a crappy job, and it was just one of those things”…it isn’t that H is an evil person, no one is saying that, it is he is a person with issues and those issues make life hard for OP, and in effect it is excusing his behavior.</p>

<p>For the OP, you aren’t stupid for not recognizing abuse, simply human, and you are talking to an expert on that. When I went into therapy for family issues, I would describe my dad going into rages over trivial things, yelling and screaming and threatening, and I would sit there with a smile on my face, saying things like “it wasn’t so bad” or “oh, it is just the way he was” and she would get frustrated with me because I ‘bounced off’ my emotions…imagine a little kid who for example left a jar of peanut butter open and being screamed at like I had committed murder or something, and you get the idea (and yes, folks, there is real damage from being treated like that)…and I have people I have met who have suffered much worse abuse, and they did the same thing when they were dealing with it as adults, it is a defense mechanism you pick up as a kid. By denying it you create some sense of security, whether it is the young kid or the adult dealing with a spouse…so cut yourself a break:)</p>

<p>In terms of the relationship, again I agree divorce has its own consequences and one of the reasons I recommended therapy/counselling was not to hasten her road towards divorce but rather to gain the strength to make decisions and be able to be her own person. Trying to deal with the tough road of divorce without having your own stuff in order is even worse, you need to be strong to figure out what you need to do, and despite what some have portrayed it as, therapists, least good ones, aren’t there to tell you what to do, they are there to help you find the strength to figure out what to do and help you achieve that. With H, it could very well be that if the OP gets help and gets her strength, she can find the strength to help him/make him get the help he needs that maybe will change things (not saying it will), if the ultimate goal is to save the marriage, then to be able to do so H needs help it sounds like…so therapy could end up making it turn into a real relationship. </p>

<p>Momlive, you summed it up perfectly, your story I think sums up the issues around this, hopefully it will help the OP.</p>

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<p>I don’t think anyone is saying this. I think the point is that if OP has any desire to salvage the relationship, then someone needs to figure out why H is acting the way he is, and those causes need to be addressed and remedied if possible, so H stops taking things out on OP.</p>

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<p>^^^^^^</p>

<p>I got the impression that the OP is not really trying to salvage her marriage; she is trying to decide when/if/how to leave.</p>

<p>Who knows, perhaps if the husband decides to go to counseling and give it a sincere try (vs. many who are only there to get the therapist to tell the spouse how wrong they are), they could salvage their marriage and make it work. However, given his resistance to treating his physical ailments properly, I am not optimistic.</p>

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<p>^^I agree Bay. A marriage is a relationship between 2 people, who both have to be heard from and who both have to listen to each other. That doesn’t excuse the H’s behavior, but there is a lot of meat here.</p>

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<p>Since Sadmom likely won’t be leaving in the immediate future, it would be great if she could find out what’s causing her husband’s horrible moods if for no other reason than to make the living situation tolerable until she can get her arrangements made to leave.</p>

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<p>My DH was verbally abusive. (This is going back 20 years.) Once I recognized it, I started standing up to it. He changed dramatically as a result of that. </p>

<p>Change is possible. One step at a time.</p>

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<p>OP I am sorry you are in this situation. Only you can know what is right for you and a agree with all the other posters that a therapist for you is a good first step. I divorced after 10 years in and out of therapy (the therapist would indicate that my Ex needed therapy alone for a while) and of course he would stop going. We would start up again as a couple and the pattern would repeat. I also have 2 children who were 10 and 12 when he moved out. The older was picked on the younger favored - so similar. The disparity of the treatment of the two has continued for years post divorce and honestly sometimes I think the “favored” one has been hurt more by this behavior and it has made it very hard for the two siblings to be close (breaks my heart) It is finally getting better as he now favors his stepkids over both of his own.</p>

<p>Your statement here
“but he still goes into my things and re-arranges them. He will take a stack of papers from my desk – things that I am currently dealing with – and put everything away in different places, or put them in files. I have no idea where to find things and it drives me crazy.”</p>

<p>Really struck home. Have you ever heard of gaslighting? It is purposely done specifically to drive your crazy. Almost worked on me - especially after you are isolated from all your friends due to the spouses behavior.</p>

<p>I wish you the best therapist you can find. That would be a terrific support no matter what you choose. BTW - I am happier (7 years later) than I really thought possible. Not easy - but for me divorce was the right the decision. I just had to make sure (hence the many years of therapy) before I finally decided.</p>

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<p>I’m wondering if he is an addict. Pain killers. Wife would not know necessarily. Also I wonder how much pain he is really in. Seems he could be using his ailments to get away with being a jerk and a bully.</p>

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<p>I remember watching the movie Gaslight when I was in my 20s and having the sickening realization that that was how my father treated my mother. I had never heard the term before. </p>

<p>OP, I don’t know what the right answer is for you and your kids, just want to send you some love and good thoughts.</p>

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<p>Just checking in quickly. I’ve read all the posts, and appreciate the kind words and the stories. I am exhausted after a busy day, and have to get up early tomorrow, but I wanted to quickly say that I do recognize that I have some part in the destructive dynamic, because I allow myself to be mistreated. I will do anything to keep the peace. These days I run around making sure that horizontal surfaces are clear, nothing is out of place, etc. I try to remove anything that might offend DH, but as hard as I try, there is always something. I find it humiliating to behave like a child trying to avoid getting in trouble, but I can’t stand conflict, as someone posted above, and I go to great lengths to avoid it. </p>

<p>I can see that with therapy, reading books, learning about abuse I might change my responses enough to elicit different behavior from my husband. I do not have real hope for the marriage. For one thing, my husband is completely against therapy and doesn’t believe in it. I have suggested it a number of times over the years, and he always refused to consider it. But it would be great if the situation here could be improved while I make arrangements, figure things out, and my sons grow older. </p>

<p>Someonen suggested speaking to my husband’s doctor. I am really afraid to do this. My husband would be furious. I have looked up the medications he takes and personality changes, aggression, are not mentioned as side effects.</p>

<p>I’ve never seen Gaslight - will have to watch it sometime. Or maybe I shouldn’t…</p>

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<p>Checking back in quickly. Some posters pooh-poohed the idea that divorce is as painful for young adults as it is for young children (ie., OP should leave the minute the youngest goes to college). Here’s one of the books I was thinking of, no it is not peer reviewed science but if you read the reviews you will get the idea:
[Amazon.com:</a> The Way They Were: Dealing with Your Parents’ Divorce After a Lifetime of Marriage (9781400082100): Brooke Lea Foster: Books](<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Way-They-Were-Lifetime-Marriage/dp/1400082102/ref=sr_1_15?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1323487991&sr=1-15]Amazon.com:”>http://www.amazon.com/Way-They-Were-Lifetime-Marriage/dp/1400082102/ref=sr_1_15?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1323487991&sr=1-15)</p>

<p>I’m neither suggesting the OP stay in a horrible situation or pushing her to divorce him. That is not something any of us can do as we are not in her shoes. Like her though, I was afraid of conflict and like her I asked my H many times to try counseling together. Like her husband, he didn’t believe in it (or more likely, would not be able to bear unpacking some cherished myths to get to the bottom of what has been bothering him for 40+ years).</p>

<p>Yes there are new problems on our own (me and my kids), but daily life is sane. Predictable and sane, and that’s enough to find joy in each day. Good luck OP, whatever you decide.</p>

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<p>*My DH was verbally abusive. (This is going back 20 years.) Once I recognized it, I started standing up to it. He changed dramatically as a result of that. </p>

<p>Change is possible. One step at a time. *</p>

<p>Can you give the OP some examples of how you stood up to your H? The OP says that when she’s tried to speak up, her H “drowns her out”. Did that happen to you? What did you do? </p>

<p>I’m also curious if the OP’s H ever acknowledges when he’s been mean? Does he ever apologize?</p>

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<p>* Also I wonder how much pain he is really in. Seems he could be using his ailments to get away with being a jerk and a bully. *</p>

<p>I wondered about this, too. My SIL’s ex used “headaches” as an excuse to get what his wanted, to avoid family committments, to leave a social event, to avoid household chores, etc. He got exposed when he feigned a headache to get out of a family committment, and then accepted a “golf date” when a friend called.</p>

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<p>OP, here’s another book for you to check out: “Spiritual Divorce” <a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Spiritual-Divorce-Catalyst-Extraordinary-Life/dp/0061227129/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1323495097&sr=8-1[/url]”>http://www.amazon.com/Spiritual-Divorce-Catalyst-Extraordinary-Life/dp/0061227129/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1323495097&sr=8-1&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I know several people who found it immensely helpful, even uplifting throughout the process. The author has a very active web site too (in case CC is slowing down…).</p>

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One of the things you are going to realize is that what you are doing is only making it worse. He is doing something that is working, so why would he stop? You have to stop trying to appease him. It doesn’t work now, and it never will.

Like sadmom, I’ve been married over 20 years. The first 9 were a downward spiral of misery and abuse which included physical violence of some degree on at least half a dozen occasions. I will tell you about the last straw. One night we went to a funeral for the father of a friend. We didn’t have dinner before and it was rather late when we got home and ate. S (6 at the time) was cranky and out of sorts and didn’t want to eat. H was chastising him, then he went into a blind rage and picked S up out of his seat by one arm (his arm was down at the time, not raised). H started screaming that he was going to beat the heck out of S. I started screaming at him to put the kid down. By this time he was heading away from the table with S in tow. </p>

<p>I was in the way, and he turned and shoved me full force backwards into the counter. I recovered enough to follow them up the stairs to S’s room where I basically turned mama grizzly. That was the bottom for us, the point where I realized that if I didn’t do something he was going to raise the kids treating them the way he had treated me for 9 years. And that there was no way I was going to let that happen. </p>

<p>I was in counseling for a number of months (without his knowledge) and then I dragged him to a couples counselor. He had to listen and acknowledge how he had been treating me and the kids. Maybe it put the fear of god in him or something, but he became more tolerable after that. </p>

<p>I also learned to stop trying to keep him from going off. Here is a before counseling/after counseling example:</p>

<p>One day we were all in the kitchen and H turned to get a paper towel from the roll in the hanger above the counter. The roll was empty. He grabbed the empty roll from the holder, brandished it at me and yelled “BAD IDEA, XANIA!” I can still see him there, ludicrous with the empty roll in his hand, waving it about. For days, I went around the house trying to make sure all the TP and towel holders were appropriately and neatly stocked so that one might never turn to use them and find nothing there (like the OP, I tried to prevent the rants). </p>

<p>I can’t picture him doing that now, but if he did I would rear back in mock alarm and say something like “there’s more in the basement - atop the spare fridge”, probably make some aside faces to the kids, and waltz airily out of the room.</p>