<p>I’m really in a quandary, and you folks generally have some helpful insights. </p>
<p>My brother-in-law was in a relationship between wife number 3 and 4 (the current wife) that resulted in two children, now ages 4 and 7. Two years ago he went through a “collaborative” process to work out a child support arrangement. The process was also supposed to work out custody/visitation, but it resulted in the mother being granted full custody and no arrangement was ever made for visitation. My brother-in-law has periodically told me that he was going to go back to mediation to work on the custody issues, but he always had an excuse as to why he was putting it off – he wanted to wait to get the financial arrangements resolved, he was going to wait until after the wedding, etc. It’s now been about 2 years since he has seen the kids. His parents see the kids periodically, and we have had the kids stay with us on occasion, so they have a relationship with their father’s family, just not with their father. He lives about 45 minutes away, so this is not a distance issue.</p>
<p>I got an email from the new wife before Christmas – BIL is working on becoming part of the kids’ lives again, but meanwhile he would like to deliver gifts to them. Will I be seeing them? I could truthfully say that we had no particular plans to see them but that if he brought presents over I would deliver them. He brought the gifts by a few days ago and asked me to tell the kids that the gifts were from their father, but not to tell the mother where the gifts had come from, as she would throw them away (probably true). So I’m supposed to tell a 7 year old not to tell his mother something? Oh, please! Besides, I had already let the mother know that there would be gifts (I hadn’t been told that this was a secret) and she had asked me not to bring them over, as it would be confusing for the kids and painful for her. The 4 year old has no memory of his/her father, but the older one does, and s/he feels (I think) a sense of abandonment that would in fact make a gift confusing.</p>
<p>So now I’m smack in the middle, and I really don’t know what to do. I wouldn’t think of giving the kids these gifts behind their mother’s back. My BIL bought each kid a nice toy, but nothing that they really need. I would just honor the mother’s wishes and not deliver them, but I’m concerned that if mediation actually goes forward the first question to the kids will be, “Did you get the presents from your father?”</p>
<p>I have considered keeping the gifts here and letting the kids play with them when they visit, but I wouldn’t do that without talking to the mom first. What do you all think? If I do that, what should I tell the 7 year old?</p>
You should have never accepted the gifts and told him that he needs to deliver them himself. Now that you have them, you did the first step right in checking with the mother on them but since she doesn’t want them then you should give the gifts back to the no good dad. You can tell him you tried to deliver them but they were refused so he needs to retrieve them within a fixed time period, perhaps a couple of weeks, and that if he doesn’t make it by then, then you’ll donate the toys to a good charity.</p>
<p>You need to get out of the middle. You should never have told your brother-in-law you would keep a secret from the kids’ mom. Give the presents back to him and tell him to deal with it himself. Maybe the new wife will help him be a more consistent dad. It’s not your job.</p>
<p>Personally, I would just be honest with your BIL and tell him that their mom has requested that you not deliver the gifts and you aren’t comfortable being the middle. Period.</p>
<p>What a jerk (op’s bil, not the op) - from personal experience (how my own father treated my brother & me), the bil will not change. Ever. Not even with the ‘help’ of the new wife. I feel for the kids. I (and my brother) were in their shoes.</p>
<p>I agree with the others. And while the BIL is a jerk in this situation, the mother seems to be making it worse. ANY contact he can start to build with the kids is worthwhile, in any small measure. And ANY positive something from their dad is valuable beyond words- pretending he does not exist does not help anyone. What poppycock about being ‘confusing’. This is more about HER finding it ‘painful’. But it is not about her personal feelings about the jerk of an ex she has. </p>
<p>I’ll bet a million bucks this is far more complicated than it appears. And this speaks volumes:</p>
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<p>Say what? Any decent mother who has her best kids interest at heart, doesn’t wait around for a contract to permit their father to spend time with the kids. Why was it ever necessary? </p>
<p>No doubt its has never been easy for him to see the kids and trying to do so has just brought deep pain and he found it easier to cope by withdrawing.</p>
<p>These situations are so hard on the children…a 4 and 7 year old with no Father involved in their lives is a very sad situation…and I agree that your BIL should be ashamed of himself, he can never make up for this time that has passed and a toy certainly will not mend this abandonment…but, that is not the question is it…what do you do with the gifts? I agree that you tell him to come and retreive them, and that you can not be put in the middle of his “relationship” with his children. I would then try to do everything I could to include these children (and their mother) in your lives…they need family on their fathers side to connect with and feel loved by…you can make a huge difference by being there for them.</p>
<p>I can’t get over a guy who thinks that the thing his kids needs is presents instead of HIS presence, and moreover who first thing out of the gate asks you to tell his kids to lie to their mother! The first thing can perhaps be written off as an awkward approach by a well-meaning guy, but the latter reveals major lack of character. </p>
<p>I agree with MomLive. (I also think you did the right thing to talk to the mother first.) I think that the best thing you can do is preserve your position as an honest connection between the kids and their father’s family.</p>
<p>Crossposted with Starbright: there is a great deal to what you say, but it is also possible that she knows from bitter experience that he is unreliable and a liar and that she actually thinks it would be easier for her kids to just write him off than to have him blowing hot and cold.</p>
<p>My husband had a client who’s behavior mirrored the bil. My husband, a usually quiet about opinions kind of guy, called him a “sniveling sh**” Get yourself out of the middle. I strongly suspect that this is about child support, more than the relationship. </p>
<p>Starbright…the mom may be making the visitation situation difficult, but any parent who wanted to see his or her children would not just withdraw because it was difficult! I would walk on fire to see my child if I did not have custody, and it is very simple to go to family court (even without the expense of a lawyer) and get temporary visitation starting immediately while a finalized visitation schedule gets worked out. Not seeing the children for two years leads me to believe he really doesn’t want to be bothered. The mom is probably hurt because she has to be the mom and the dad to these little kids and hates to see them missing out on having a loving and consistent father in their lives (I would be!)</p>
<p>In California granting sole custody is VERY unusual. There has to be something very wrong. (Not mincing words here.) The mother may not be making things “easy”, but the court made a ruling based on evidence. (I have no idea what it might be.)</p>
<p>Agree with all on what the OP should do. Just to throw something else in though, why all the sympathy for the mom of these two? I feel sorry for the kids period. The mom had two children with someone she was not married to and who was between wives three and four. Hello? Wake up call?</p>
<p>^ She most likely believed his lies, thought he would marry her, was waiting for him to do what he said he would do. After two kids she finally figured out he is all talk. OP said he is full of excuses and some of these con artists are really good at what they do. The mom has all the sympathy because it is difficult to raise kids alone and extremely painful sometimes to try to raise kids to be happy without a loving, present father.</p>
<p>OP can’t really tell him to come back and get the gifts - no doubt he won’t. I’d let him know they are coming back to him, box them up, and leave them at his front door. BIL needs to man up and handle this himself.</p>
<p>ebeeeeee, that not so insignificant point flew right by me. Thanks for spelling that out for those of us lacking in reading comprehension skills.</p>
<p>I feel sympathy for anyone raising two children when the perfectly capable other parent is choosing to be absent from the children’s lives. Single parenting is tough and although they were not married, that does not excuse the father from his responsibilities.</p>
<p>MomLive hit the nail on the head. Not only will it get you out of the middle, it’s really the only sane thing to do at this point.</p>
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<p>I completely disagree with this. These children have had no contact with their father for years yet he’s magically going to start giving gifts? That is confusing for children. Let the process work itself out and let the children establish a relationship with a person, not a Santa-like figure.</p>
<p>Thanks, everyone. This is helping me get some perspective. OK, more backstory. The only way I can explain this whole situation is to say two children, no adults. The mom finds herself in a terrible situation - living on very little money with 2 little kids - because she has been living in her own personal fairy tale from the beginning, but whaddya know, nobody is living happily ever after. The dad - well, he has difficulty establishing genuine loving relationships with anyone, and his two grown children have had a lot of problems as a result. </p>
<p>I’m not particularly worried about the adults’ feelings here, except that I know that if the mom doesn’t accept the gifts my BIL will find a way to use that against her. He can really be vicious. While I can’t respect the choices she’s made I don’t think it’s good for the kids in the long run to turn her into some kind of villain. </p>
<p>I can’t take my BIL very seriously about visitation. I think that it’s being driven by his new wife, who’s a lovely woman and wants him to do “the right thing” by his kids, but he’s been very unreliable in the past. He would drop into the kids’ lives for a while and then get tired of being restricted (or whatever) and disappear out of their lives again. The older child has experienced abandonment multiple times. I really want to be careful not to hurt him/her any more than s/he already has been. There is NO WAY that I would ask him/her to keep a secret from his/her mom. Wow, the English language really needs a new pronoun.</p>
<p>So I could do what some of you have suggested and return the gifts to my BIL, telling him that I can’t do what he wants - tell the kids that these gifts are from their dad and not to tell their mom. Or I could talk to the mom and see if she would be OK with me keeping the gifts here for them to play with when they visit, which they do fairly frequently. The gift for the older one is a project (I can tell by shaking) that would be difficult to do in their tiny little apartment without the younger one messing it up.</p>
<p>I think this is so interesting. My guess would be that she wants him to do the right thing because she can’t fathom that she married someone who would treat his own children so carelessly. </p>
<p>Sounds like you are trying to do the right thing but you really can’t win here. The minute you are put in the middle you become fodder for everyone’s else’s anger and issues. It’s called triangulation. In other words, you become the bad guy in a drama you didn’t even create. Best to walk away now and limit your involvement to establishing a relationship with your niece and nephew outside of what is going on between the parents.</p>
<p>I have great sympathy for any single mom raising two small children in a “tiny apartment” on very little money…with no father present to help raise and love these kids as well as give her a break from time to time from the constant needs of small children. And to hear that the father can be “vicious” as well really makes me both angry and sad…maybe this explains the sole custody decision! Also if the older child has already (at 7) had issues steming from the fathers abandonment and inconsistent presence I can understand the moms worry and desire not to accept the gifts…not to mention the fact that anyone who asks a small child lie to their parent has no moral values! ( how could dad even float that idea out there???)</p>
<p>BTW confusedaunt…How wonderful that you have the kids over frequently…they will need your love and consistent stability with the lives they are currently leading…you are doing a wonderful thing to be there for them…</p>