Student Body Depth-Which Schools are strongest?

hawkette · May 28, 2007, 9:09am

One way to measure the depth of the student body is comparing the achievement level for the 25th percentile on both the Critical Reading and the Math sections. I looked at the CR and M scores for each college in the USNWR Top 30 and compared this with the percentile for students nationally who scored at this level. This measurement tells you how far the school dipped in the SAT pool in its enrolled class.

For general comparative purposes, on a national basis, a score of 600 would place a student in the 78th percentile for Critical Reading and in the 74th percentile for Math. Approximately 314,000 students scored at 600 level or better on the Critical Reading section. Approximately 378,000 scored at the 600 level or better on the Math section. The total testing population for 2006 college bound students was 1,465,744.

On the Critical Reading sections, the 25% achievement level for all but three of the USNWR Top 30 scored at the 75th percentile or better. The exceptions were UC-Berkeley and U Michigan (580-74th percentile) and UCLA (570-71st percentile). On the Math sections, all of the USNWR Top 30 schools scored above the 75th percentile.

(Note: There may be some slight data mismatches as I am combining the Yahoo Education data with the collegeboard.com data. But assuming data patterns have not swung too much in the past year, the relationships between numbers should be valid.)

Here are the results:

USN Rank, School, CR 25% level, Percentile Rank, M 25% level, Percentile Rank

1 Princeton 680/ 93%/ 690/ 92%
2 Harvard 690/ 94%/ 700/ 93%
3 Yale 700/ 95%/ 690/ 92%
4 Cal Tech 690/ 94%/ 780/ 99%
4 Stanford 660/ 90%/ 680/ 91%
4 MIT 660/ 89%/ 720/ 96%
7 U Penn 650/ 89%/ 680/ 91%
8 Duke 690/ 94%/ 690/ 92%
9 U Chicago 670/ 92%/ 650/ 86%
9 Dartmouth 670/ 92%/ 680/ 91%
9 Columbia 660/ 90%/ 660/ 88%
12 Wash U StL 670/ 92%/ 700/ 93%
12 Cornell 620/ 83%/ 660/ 88%
14 Northwestern 650/ 89%/ 670/ 89%
15 Brown 670/ 92%/ 680/ 91%
16 J Hopkins 630/ 85%/ 660/ 88%
17 Rice 650/ 89%/ 680/ 91%
18 Emory 620/ 83%/ 650/ 86%
18 Vanderbilt 630/ 85%/ 650 86%
20 Notre Dame 600/ 79%/ 630/ 81%
21 UC Berkeley 580/ 74%/ 620/ 79%
21 Carnegie Mellon 610/ 82%/ 690/ 92%
23 Georgetown 640/ 87%/ 650/ 86%
24 U Michigan 580/ 74%/ 630/ 81%
24 U Virginia 600/ 79%/ 620/ 79%
26 UCLA 570/ 71%/ 610/ 76%
27 USC 630/ 85%/ 650/ 86%
27 Tufts 670/ 92%/ 670/ 89%
27 U North Carolina 590/ 77%/ 610/ 76%
30 Wake Forest 610/ 82%/ 670/ 89%

brassmonkey · May 28, 2007, 9:10am

What about LAC’s?

brassmonkey · May 28, 2007, 9:49am

School: Verbal/% then Math/%

Pomona 690/94% – 680/91%
Williams 660/90% – 660/88%
Amherst 670/92% – 660/88%
Swarthmore 660/90% – 660/88%
Middlebury* 630/85% – 640/83%
Bowdoin* 650/89% – 650/86%
Carleton 670/92% – 660/88%
Harvey Mudd 680/93% – 740/94%
Claremont McKenna 630/85% – 640/83%
Wellesley 660/90% – 650/86%
Wesleyan 640/87% – 650/86%
Smith 580/72% – 560/66%
Oberlin 650/89% – 620/79%
Davidson 620/83% – 630/81%
Colgate 620/83% – 640/83%
Haverford 640/87% – 650/86%
Colby 630/85% – 640/83%
Vassar 660/90% – 640/83%
Grinnell 630/85% – 620/79%
Macalester 630/85% – 630/81%
Barnard 640/87% – 640/83%
Bryn Mawr 620/83% – 580/70%
Washington & Lee 650/89% – 650/86%
Whitman 610/82% – 620/79%
Kenyon 620/83% – 610/76%
Bates 630/85% – 640/83%
Hamilton 630/85% – 630/81%
Mount Holyoke 620/83% – 590/72%
Trinity (CT) 600/79% – 610/76%
Reed 660/90% – 620/79%

*Inflated due to optional SAT submission

hawkette · May 28, 2007, 10:17am

Thanks brassmonkey. The ones in the LACs that jump out at me are the all-girls schools. Ouch! Smith in particular, but also Bryn Mawr and Mount Holyoke. However, I’m not sure out benchmarks are the same. I used the data from collegeboard.com to get my national numbers and the percentiles for the level at which a school scored. What did you use?

atomicfusion · May 28, 2007, 10:23am

brassmonkey, were those intended to be ranked or did you just put them in a random order?

atomicfusion · May 28, 2007, 10:38am

LACs ranked by Average 25th percentile SAT

Harvey Mudd 680/93% – 740/94% Average: 720
Pomona 690/94% – 680/91% Average: 685
Amherst 670/92% – 660/88% Average: 665
Carleton 670/92% – 660/88% Average: 665
Swarthmore 660/90% – 660/88% Average: 660
Williams 660/90% – 660/88% Average: 660
Wellesley 660/90% – 650/86% Average: 655
Bowdoin* 650/89% – 650/86% Average: 650
Washington & Lee 650/89% – 650/86% Average: 650
Vassar 660/90% – 640/83% Average: 650
Wesleyan 640/87% – 650/86% Average: 645
Haverford 640/87% – 650/86% Average: 645
Barnard 640/87% – 640/83% Average: 640
Reed 660/90% – 620/79% Average: 640
Bates 630/85% – 640/83% Average: 635
Colby 630/85% – 640/83% Average: 635
Middlebury* 630/85% – 640/83% Average: 635
Claremont McKenna 630/85% – 640/83% Average: 635
Oberlin 650/89% – 620/79% Average: 635
Colgate 620/83% – 640/83% Average: 630
Hamilton 630/85% – 630/81% Average: 630
Macalester 630/85% – 630/81% Average: 630
Davidson 620/83% – 630/81% Average: 625
Grinnell 630/85% – 620/79% Average: 625
Kenyon 620/83% – 610/76% Average: 615
Whitman 610/82% – 620/79% Average: 610
Bryn Mawr 620/83% – 580/70% Average: 600
Mount Holyoke 620/83% – 590/72% Average: 605
Trinity (CT) 600/79% – 610/76% Average: 605
Smith 580/72% – 560/66% Average: 590

atomicfusion · May 28, 2007, 10:51am

Universities and LACs ranked by Average 25th percentile SAT

Cal Tech 690/ 94%/ 780/ 99% Average: 735
Harvey Mudd 680/93% – 740/94% Average: 720
Harvard 690/ 94%/ 700/ 93% Average: 695
Yale 700/ 95%/ 690/ 92% Average: 695
Duke 690/ 94%/ 690/ 92% Average: 690
Stanford 660/ 90%/ 680/ 91% Average: 690
MIT 660/ 89%/ 720/ 96% Average: 690
Pomona 690/94% – 680/91% Average: 685
Princeton 680/ 93%/ 690/ 92% Average: 685
Wash U StL 670/ 92%/ 700/ 93% Average: 685
Brown 670/ 92%/ 680/ 91% Average: 675
Dartmouth 670/ 92%/ 680/ 91% Average: 675
U Penn 650/ 89%/ 680/ 91% Average: 675
Tufts 670/ 92%/ 670/ 89% Average: 670
Amherst 670/92% – 660/88% Average: 665
Carleton 670/92% – 660/88% Average: 665
Rice 650/ 89%/ 680/ 91% Average: 665
Swarthmore 660/90% – 660/88% Average: 660
Williams 660/90% – 660/88% Average: 660
U Chicago 670/ 92%/ 650/ 86% Average: 660
Columbia 660/ 90%/ 660/ 88% Average: 660
Northwestern 650/ 89%/ 670/ 89% Average: 660
Wellesley 660/90% – 650/86% Average: 655
Bowdoin* 650/89% – 650/86% Average: 650
Carnegie Mellon 610/ 82%/ 690/ 92% Average: 650
Washington & Lee 650/89% – 650/86% Average: 650
Vassar 660/90% – 640/83% Average: 650
Georgetown 640/ 87%/ 650/ 86% Average: 645
J Hopkins 630/ 85%/ 660/ 88% Average: 645
Wesleyan 640/87% – 650/86% Average: 645
Haverford 640/87% – 650/86% Average: 645
Barnard 640/87% – 640/83% Average: 640
Reed 660/90% – 620/79% Average: 640
Wake Forest 610/ 82%/ 670/ 89% Average: 640
USC 630/ 85%/ 650/ 86% Average: 640
Vanderbilt 630/ 85%/ 650 86% Average: 640
Cornell 620/ 83%/ 660/ 88% Average: 640
Bates 630/85% – 640/83% Average: 635
Colby 630/85% – 640/83% Average: 635
Emory 620/ 83%/ 650/ 86% Average: 635
Middlebury* 630/85% – 640/83% Average: 635
Claremont McKenna 630/85% – 640/83% Average: 635
Oberlin 650/89% – 620/79% Average: 635
Colgate 620/83% – 640/83% Average: 630
Hamilton 630/85% – 630/81% Average: 630
Macalester 630/85% – 630/81% Average: 630
Davidson 620/83% – 630/81% Average: 625
Grinnell 630/85% – 620/79% Average: 625
Kenyon 620/83% – 610/76% Average: 615
Notre Dame 600/ 79%/ 630/ 81% Average: 615
Whitman 610/82% – 620/79% Average: 610
U Virginia 600/ 79%/ 620/ 79% Average: 610
Bryn Mawr 620/83% – 580/70% Average: 600
Mount Holyoke 620/83% – 590/72% Average: 605
Trinity (CT) 600/79% – 610/76% Average: 605
U Michigan 580/ 74%/ 630/ 81% Average: 605
UC Berkeley 580/ 74%/ 620/ 79% Average: 600
U North Carolina 590/ 77%/ 610/ 76% Average: 600
Smith 580/72% – 560/66% Average: 590
UCLA 570/ 71%/ 610/ 76% Average: 590

brassmonkey · May 28, 2007, 11:27am

I put them in the order that they sort of came to me, and towards the end, I used top LAC’s on this site to fill in. All of my data came from collegeboard.com, and I used the percentiles from Hawkette, except in the case where the numbers didn’t match, where I checked Cboard for them.

brassmonkey · May 28, 2007, 11:29am

and for an engineering student, you should have the math to know that 660 and 680 (Stanford) average out to 670. :-P

atomicfusion · May 28, 2007, 11:44am

Yeah I don’t have excel so I was just doing them really fast in my head. There might be some errors.

atomicfusion · May 28, 2007, 11:48am

Sorry, I totally messed some of those up. Here are the correct scores:

Universities and LACs ranked by Average 25th percentile SAT

Cal Tech 690/ 94%/ 780/ 99% Average: 735

Harvey Mudd 680/93% – 740/94% Average: 710

Harvard 690/ 94%/ 700/ 93% Average: 695
Yale 700/ 95%/ 690/ 92% Average: 695

Duke 690/ 94%/ 690/ 92% Average: 690
MIT 660/ 89%/ 720/ 96% Average: 690

Pomona 690/94% – 680/91% Average: 685
Princeton 680/ 93%/ 690/ 92% Average: 685
Wash U StL 670/ 92%/ 700/ 93% Average: 685

Brown 670/ 92%/ 680/ 91% Average: 675
Dartmouth 670/ 92%/ 680/ 91% Average: 675

Stanford 660/ 90%/ 680/ 91% Average: 670
Tufts 670/ 92%/ 670/ 89% Average: 670

U Penn 650/ 89%/ 680/ 91% Average: 665
Amherst 670/92% – 660/88% Average: 665
Carleton 670/92% – 660/88% Average: 665
Rice 650/ 89%/ 680/ 91% Average: 665

Swarthmore 660/90% – 660/88% Average: 660
Williams 660/90% – 660/88% Average: 660
U Chicago 670/ 92%/ 650/ 86% Average: 660
Columbia 660/ 90%/ 660/ 88% Average: 660
Northwestern 650/ 89%/ 670/ 89% Average: 660

Wellesley 660/90% – 650/86% Average: 655

Bowdoin* 650/89% – 650/86% Average: 650
Carnegie Mellon 610/ 82%/ 690/ 92% Average: 650
Washington & Lee 650/89% – 650/86% Average: 650
Vassar 660/90% – 640/83% Average: 650

Georgetown 640/ 87%/ 650/ 86% Average: 645
J Hopkins 630/ 85%/ 660/ 88% Average: 645
Wesleyan 640/87% – 650/86% Average: 645
Haverford 640/87% – 650/86% Average: 645

Barnard 640/87% – 640/83% Average: 640
Reed 660/90% – 620/79% Average: 640
Wake Forest 610/ 82%/ 670/ 89% Average: 640
USC 630/ 85%/ 650/ 86% Average: 640
Vanderbilt 630/ 85%/ 650 86% Average: 640
Cornell 620/ 83%/ 660/ 88% Average: 640

Bates 630/85% – 640/83% Average: 635
Colby 630/85% – 640/83% Average: 635
Emory 620/ 83%/ 650/ 86% Average: 635
Middlebury* 630/85% – 640/83% Average: 635
Claremont McKenna 630/85% – 640/83% Average: 635
Oberlin 650/89% – 620/79% Average: 635

Colgate 620/83% – 640/83% Average: 630
Hamilton 630/85% – 630/81% Average: 630
Macalester 630/85% – 630/81% Average: 630

Davidson 620/83% – 630/81% Average: 625
Grinnell 630/85% – 620/79% Average: 625

Kenyon 620/83% – 610/76% Average: 615
Notre Dame 600/ 79%/ 630/ 81% Average: 615
Whitman 610/82% – 620/79% Average: 615

U Virginia 600/ 79%/ 620/ 79% Average: 610

Bryn Mawr 620/83% – 580/70% Average: 600
Mount Holyoke 620/83% – 590/72% Average: 605
Trinity (CT) 600/79% – 610/76% Average: 605
U Michigan 580/ 74%/ 630/ 81% Average: 605

UC Berkeley 580/ 74%/ 620/ 79% Average: 600
U North Carolina 590/ 77%/ 610/ 76% Average: 600

UCLA 570/ 71%/ 610/ 76% Average: 590

Smith 580/72% – 560/66% Average: 570

I REALLY wish I still had excel. I feel like an idiot now lol.

brassmonkey · May 28, 2007, 11:55am

This is pretty revealing though. A lot of people (even on the 5-C’s) assume that humanities/english at Harvey Mudd will be pretty easy, as everyone there is a math/science geek, this (along with hum I & II being incredibly difficult) obviously contests that idea. (If you ranked all LAcs and Uni’s by verbal, Mudd would be tied with Princeton, above most ivies, and exceeded only by Caltech, Pomona, Harvard, Duke and Yale)

brassmonkey · May 28, 2007, 12:06pm

Top 25 by Verbal:

<ol>
<li>(700)
Yale</li>
<li>(Tied with 690)
Harvard
Caltech
Pomona
Duke</li>
<li>(Tied with 680)
Princeton
Harvey Mudd</li>
<li>(Tied with 670)
Wash U
Brown
Dartmouth
Tufts
Amherst
Carleton
UChicago</li>
<li>(Tied with 660)
Swarthmore
Williams
Columbia
Wellesley
Reed
Vassar
Stanford
MIT</li>
<li>(Tied with 650)
U Penn
Rice
Bowdoin
Washington & Lee</li>
</ol>

system · May 28, 2007, 12:15pm

As expected, theres a rough correlation between National Merit Scholars and SAT Scores.

The rank of National Merit goes…Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Princeton, MIT, Duke, Penn, Dartmouth, Columbia, Brown - in terms of absolute numbers I believe, I’ll double check

atomicfusion · May 28, 2007, 12:29pm

brassmonkey, my Pomona hum class last semester was far easier than my Mudd hum I class first semester. I’ve only had one semester at each school, so it doesn’t say much yet. I’ll be taking plenty of hum classes at both schools over the next three years, so I’ll see in the future.

But, most Mudd students are actually pretty well rounded. I’m not saying that the average Mudd student is equal to the average Pomona student in humanities, but I really don’t think we are that far off. A lot of deep discussions that go on at Mudd are about non-science topics. You’d be surprised.

brassmonkey · May 28, 2007, 12:33pm

Oh I agree, it’s just that most people assume the opposite. The same can be said for MIT & Caltech. It’s just nice to see statistical data that clears the notion that all math/science “geeks” are weak in other areas.

brassmonkey · May 28, 2007, 8:44pm

I think after Harvard, University of Florida has the most National Merit Scholars.

system · May 28, 2007, 11:33pm

In that stat, UF counts scholarships that are sponsored by the university, not the National Merit corporation - not the same thing. The schools that have the most National Merit scholarships not based on school merit money are Harvard, Stanford, Princeton, Yale, MIT, Penn, Duke, and Columbia.

hoedown · May 29, 2007, 10:33am

“girls schools” is not the preferred term when referring to postsecondary institutions. “Women’s colleges” is more conventional.

cellardweller · May 29, 2007, 10:51am

The data for MIT is incorrect. According to their official CDS, the 25th percentile is 690/740 not 660/720 putting it second only to Caltech as far as average SAT.

Student Body Depth-Which Schools are strongest?

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