<p>This topic was why are so many students at prep schools in New England from New England? I gave you the answer. Only you guys CARE about prep school education. Most people in the midwest are more egalitarian in our thinking. You don’t become a quality person because of the schools that your parents send you to. You become a quality person by old fashioned hard work. And parents who think that they are raising their children by sending them away from home have to deal with that. I can hear the guilt in your defensive tone. It’s kind of like parents who think that relationships with their children are based on quality time over quantity time. Statistics do not bare that out. From this board you will all go to the Ivy League board…the next place you will go to complete the creation of your designer children.</p>
<p>
See my point? Don’t try to educate him. Leave the man in his “bliss of ignorance”.</p>
<p>This must be a kid (bare?) Although it’s interesting to see how much resentment there is towards prep school kids- I see this a lot in my job as a public school teacher. Our local high school is great for most kids- it wasn’t for mine.</p>
<p>Sorry about the typo. I noticed it after my post. Just understand it is not ignorance, it is a distinct difference in perspective. The prep school thing is a tradition in certain parts of the country. It is not in others. Nonetheless, those of us in ignorance are living in an area of the country that has produced both the number 1 undergraduate engineering school in the country and at the same time, the number 1 music school in the country. We just don’t buy into your values. I am trying to make you understand that you might be the people of the limited perspective. The rest of us are out here living in a much less sequestered world. But if you enjoy your inbred culture, you are welcome to it. But if you ask us why people outside of New England aren’t participating…well, now you know.</p>
<p>debrockman-
There are surely fine programs in many areas in the Midwest, but to which engineering programs are you specifically referring? MIT, CalTech, Stanford and GIT are usually ranked above any of the Midwest institutions. Of course these rankings can be variable and a bit subjective, but to claim Midwestern preeminence in engineering is silly.</p>
<p>As to music-
Curtis? (Philly), Eastman? (Rochester), Julliard? (NYC), Yale? (New Haven CT)</p>
<p>Or are you talking about Jacobs (Indiana), Vandercook (Chicago) or Cleveland? Which generally come in between 3rd and 10th in various ratings?</p>
<p>I think the 3 hour rule (i.e., parents generally want their children no more than 3 hours from home) would suffice to explain the demographic makeup of NE boarding schools’ student bodies. There’s no need to resort to overgeneralizations.</p>
<p>I’ll bet debrockman lives in Indiana and the engineering school is Rose-Hulman. It’s certainly a fine school, but to call it the top undergraduate engineering school is a huge stretch, probably fueled by the myth that undergrads don’t get taught by professors at MIT (my daughter not only has full profs for all of her lectures, but for some recitations as well). As I attended two other top engineering schools and never had anyone but a professor with office hours leading a lecture I can state unequivocally that is true for other schools as well.</p>
<p>It’s funny that we hear about the elitists on the coasts, but the presumption of superiority in debrockman’s posts is stunning (better parenting, harder working, more patriotic, stronger values, etc.). I could easily rebut those presumptions but its pointless to argue with someone that has such an innate sense of self-righteousness and cultural supremacy.</p>
<p>Edit: I just went to the Rose-Hulman site. On the home page it says, “The nation’s top undergraduate engineering, science and math college.” The funny thing is that if you do a mouseover it says, “One of the nation’s top undergraduate engineering, science and math colleges.” Many of the interior pages also include the less pretentious version, so this level of braggadocio is new. Perhaps debrockman is just on the cutting edge of a new initiative to declare “heartland” superiority. I know MIT, Caltech, Stanford, et al consider themselves the top of the heap, but imagine the indignation and allegations of elitism if they actually made such a claim in their taglines. To each their own…</p>
<p>Padre, I think I’ve solved the mystery. From the Rose-Hulman site:</p>
<p>"For the 11th consecutive year, Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology has been ranked the number one college or university that offers the bachelor’s or master’s degree as its top degree in engineering. The ranking is based on a national survey of deans and senior faculty conducted by U.S. News & World Report for its annual college guidebook.</p>
<p>Individual Rose-Hulman engineering departments once again received number-one rankings as well. Those programs are chemical, civil, computer, electrical and mechanical.</p>
<p>Rose-Hulman tied this year for the top spot with Harvey Mudd College of Claremont, Calif."</p>
<p>Of course, Stanford, MIT, Cal Tech all offer PhDs so are not in that comparison. And, if the US News & World Report is to be believed, then I do think they say some nice things about certain Ivy League schools also.</p>
<p>I suspect that is the basis for the claim. Within their tagline they are using “college” in the traditional sense of an institution that doesn’t offer terminal degrees (although there are exceptions and in common usage college and university are often interchanged). Nonetheless, Rose-Hulman, which is certainly “one of the nation’s top engineering, science and math colleges”, comes across as very pretentious with their new version. If my presumption as to the institution is correct, it also doesn’t support debrockman’s more expansive version that declares R-H the top undergraduate engineering “school”, although I’ll bet the college administration isn’t disappointed when readers misinterpret their carefully selected language.</p>
<p>My point on this forum: “Student Body Percentage From New England”, is exactly as I stated. Those of us in the heartland don’t particularly hold in high esteem what the coasts have to offer. We have no interest, in general in New England Prep schools or East Coast Ivy League. California and New York are bankrupt both financially and culturally. You guys are living in another world. One we don’t particularly value. So if your kids go to those schools and come to the midwest don’t be surprised if they are treated as though they are pretentious and elitist. You may not like to hear this, but it’s what a large part of the country believes about you. People who are every bit as well-educated, talented and accomplished as you believe yourselves to be. We just no longer believe your press releases. And pretty soon, if your taxes go up much more, you’ll be losing what culture you still have left.</p>
<p>^^Ummm…the majority of students at the elite New England schools are from the states of NH, MA, and CT (where the majority of the schools are located). Hardly financially and culturally bankrupt. Many old-fashioned values, actually.</p>
<p>OK, I think we got the message from you, Debrockman. I’m an active Christian raising my family with values of tolerance, kindness, and trying your best, as well as love of this country. New England is just a wonderful place for that. It also has many wonderful colleges, including some Ivies that we have personal experience with, but there are plenty of nice people and fine institutions in the Midwest that we respect. </p>
<p>This is a board for people interested in prep schools, wherever they are, though there tends to be most discussion about those on the East Coast. I enjoy sharing our family’s experience with people who might find it helpful. Let’s try for a kinder and gentler discussion. So I’d say, I agree with the poster who talked about proximity as a factor, because that was important to us. I also agree that boarding school is a more alien idea to some people, for regional/historical/socioeconomic differences. But to those of you considering New England boarding school, don’t worry about too many New England students! They are nice kids, and their parents will invite you out for dinner and over for Thanksgiving (after all, this is where Thanksgiving was born), and maybe even take you, if you like, to a fine chamber music concert and a church potluck (at least that’s what our guest from Andover has done this week!).</p>
<p>Dear friends, I am familiar with the position taken by debrockman. I am married to a midwesterner. She and I met at an Ivy League school, as grad students. We married and had children. When we began to consider boarding school, my wife was skeptical – along the lines of debrockman – but she knew it had been a positive experience for me. (I went to BS on a full scholarship. A native New Englander, I was the first in my white, Protestant, Maine Yankee family to complete the 9th grade, much less go further.) On the basis of that knowledge, plus our mutual agreement that we would “send” no child to BS if it was not something they wanted & pursued, we investigated BS for our two oldest children. They liked what they saw, decided it was for them, and are now at different BS. Like most young people, some days they are delighted with the choice they’ve made, some days, less so. As parents, we have forsaken – if that’s the right verb – a part of our children’s time with us, and of course, our time with them. We knew that inescapable calculus going into this venture, and while our kids understood it, too, it was not until they were away at school that we all realized that our family is forever changed. In part, that’s sad, but we – all of us – continue to believe the choices made were good. Now, our two youngest children are contemplating following in the footsteps of their older siblings. Should they do so, we would support them. Should they opt to remain in public school, we would support that. (My wife is, after all, a public school teacher.) I am writing this from Iraq, where I am deployed this year. From my experience in this conflict, and in past ones, no region of the country can claim to have cornered the market on patriotism. All best wishes, Klements</p>
<p>Best wishes to you Klements, stay safe and thanks.</p>
<p>It is remarkable how many people in the heartland (Midwest or South) lack any kind of meaningful, steady (or even periodic) exposure to people and ideas different than what they know in their day-to-day, white, Christian, heterosexual, western-European, suburban experience. It is easy to appreciate the distrust and blame that both limit and define the debrockmans.</p>
<p>That whole cesspool of values / elitism flame-throwing from the middle of the country at its coasts is reflexive and predictable. Fear of the unknown is a powerful shaper of character. While it is a shame to watch the shrinking pool of under-exposed whites adjust to the countrys changing demographics, it is a greater blot on common sense to listen to the debrockmans of the world deride New Englanders for valuing a Boarding School education, for valuing the hard work and proven methods that have produced many of the greatest minds and leaders this country has ever known.</p>
<p>What is the advantage of keeping your head in the sand? If I were debrockman, I would actively pursue the opportunity to have my child exposed to and educated by people who dont all look the same as mommy and daddy, think the same, worship the same etc. If a child is not well equipped to interact confidently with the larger world and all its different looks and values, then thats one less adult who will be able to help America lead and prosper in a complex world.</p>
<p>Klements, </p>
<p>Thank you for giving of yourself to protect your country. With relatives both retired and on active duty - as well as a nephew at West Point that may well be deployed to war zones in coming years - I’m also familiar with the sacrifices made by your family. Here’s hoping their number 1 wish for the holiday season, the safe return of you and your comrades in arms, comes true in the coming year.</p>
<p>Well said, Parlabane! It’s a powerful message I hope can wake debrockmans up.</p>
<p>I agree with Parlabane’s fundamental point that isolationist parenting will lead to adults ill-equipped to deal with a shrinking world. To survive in our multi-racial, multi-cultural society - one that is increasingly defined not just by local influences but national and even international as well - it is essential that young adults be able to appreciate and deal with those that are different. Even if one can find those increasingly rare monaural communities (everyone thinks with a single voice in their heads), engaging in any form of commerce or communication via worldwide media will break down those barriers.</p>
<p>Where I potentially disagree is if Parlabane thinks this is a uniquely white, Christian problem. I know people from multiple races, ethnicities and religions that attempt to close doors for their children. The result is generally either close-mindedness or rebellion. Neither one is beneficial to the child’s development.</p>
<p>When children are young it is appropriate for parents to teach a strong set of core values. Young kids aren’t ready to make decisions on such fundamental issues. However, one of those values should be an appreciation of those that are different. Good people can come from virtually any background and engage in different religious, social and personal practices and as kids get older it is beneficial to increase exposure to those differences. </p>
<p>The ultimate objective is akin to building in an earthquake zone. If the building is too rigid it will break under the twisting and vibrational pressures of the shifting earth. On the other hand if it doesn’t have a strong foundation on which to stand it may just topple. We want to give our kids both a strong foundation of values and the flexibility of mind to adjust and appreciate changes as they go through the societal and economic earthquakes that come from our ever shrinking world. Isolationism was bad governmental and social policy in the 20s. It is just plain impossible now.</p>
<p>from Parlabane:
</p>
<p>Thank you. Couldn’t have said it better myself. </p>
<p>I was raised in the South. I am a Christian and while I wouldn’t consider myself a Republican, I’m about as far away from Liberal Democrat as one can get. I not only expect my son’s beliefs, both political and moral, to be challenged at Boarding School, I look forward to it. I am not in the least afraid of it because I know that what we have taught my son some fundamental truths. We have laid a solid foundation. It is now up to him to sort it out and claim his own. The LAST thing on earth that I want for my children is to hear MY WORDS coming out of THEIR mouths.</p>
<p>Interesting comments in defense of giving up the most important years of your childrens’ lives… Unfortunately, you’re all wrong. I’m a native New Yorker, …lived overseas with Engineer father’s jobs. We all moved to the midwest and figured out how really off base we had become. I’m sure in your hearts you know this is right. And I’m sure that your kids aren’t going to accuse you of abandonment…because they don’t know any better. But I’ve lived both. Maybe your kids are in fact better off without you. If that’s the case, it’s a pretty sad statement. My children aren’t exposed? Hysterical. We live in a major city and there are 3000 students in their school. They travel the world. They each speak 3 languages. Your kids are the ones who have been sequestered. Not mine.</p>