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Weren’t you the one arguing that the parents were not at fault and didn’t know that their son had a problem? Or was that MOWC? I can’t find it in all those pages. So the parents weren’t at fault and couldn’t have known but friends and teammates should have?</p>
<p>yorkyfan - that is not quite fair. We don’t know that at all. Some of these guys may have been her friends as well.</p>
<p>It is my understanding the decision to play or not was not made in a vacuum. It was made in consultation with Yeardley Love’s mother.
If she gives the go ahead, that is fine with me.</p>
<p>Hunt, you’re not disagreeing with me; you’re disagreeing with the editorial writer. Please do consider writing a comment to his editorial on that site.</p>
<p>This is not an Honor Code violation. I don’t even know if it’s a SoC violation. </p>
<p>See the UJC Standards of Conduct: </p>
<p>[The</a> University Judiciary Committee](<a href=“http://www.student.virginia.edu/~judic/soc.php]The”>http://www.student.virginia.edu/~judic/soc.php)</p>
<p>It may be that he violated athletic department policies. I am not familiar with those. I think it’s important to rely on actual facts and documents rather than how those facts and documents are presented by the media.</p>
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not to defend HIM in any way but don’t forget, she is saying this AFTER he murdered someone. we don’t really know if she felt that way at the time.</p>
<p>As far as sons - IMO every parent should have a conversation with their son. Not only about how they treat women but also how they observe their friends and peers treating women.
Men should be empowered to step into a situation.</p>
<p>we don’t really think a student with this type of arrest is going to follow honor code do we? sadly, he most likely did not believe those were rules he had to follow anyway.</p>
<p>My only point–and I raise it because I’ve seen the same things in other discussions of crime–is that I think it’s comforting for many of us to think of the perpetrator as somehow fundamentally different from us–he had a bad upbringing, his parents taught him to show disrespect for women, he was a privileged athlete, he had anger management issues. Another version of this is the idea that the perpetrator is diseased in some way (not so much the case in this case). I’m just not so sure that this perpetrator is that different, or that the signs would have been that clear even to people looking at them closely. We weren’t in the courtroom in 2008, so we don’t know what kind of contrition he exhibited. We don’t know whether he has a history of violence beyond the few examples we’ve heard. We don’t even know if he’s a heavy drinker or not. Common things being common, he probably is, of course.</p>
<p>All I’m saying is that it’s always much easier after the fact to say that somebody was a smoldering powder keg that should have been spotted–but in reality, he may have not looked that much different from hundreds of other guys.</p>
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<p>The comments about his parents were not about their not knowing he had a problem. Many of the comments about the parents that I read were of the nature that they were not good parents and didn’t raise him well, etc. I never said that his parents didn’t know if he had any problems. I don’t blame the parents if they did all they could and their son turned out to be a problem.</p>
<p>I’m not blaming teammates. I’m simply stating that it is hard to fathom that someone didn’t know this young man had been arrested and had probationary consequences. In fact, for all we know, some of his friends may have been with him at the time even. And I can see friends not telling on him to the coach. That was all.</p>
<p>Hunt, I’m not even saying that people would have known he was a smoldering powder keg. But I’m saying that domestic violence usually doesn’t start with a huge thing like this (murder) but includes other aspects of power/control over women in relationships, verbal abuse, anger, and so on (and sometimes alcohol mixed in). Often these things are in private and many do not know. And the women in these situations do not necessarily reveal it to others either.</p>
<p>I believe my comments were that good parenting is NOT a guarantee that an offspring will never go in the wrong direction. I have no idea of what these parents knew or did not know. </p>
<p>I had some extensive involvement in emotional growth programs at one point and I can assure you that the most wonderful, caring parents can be caught totally off-guard by a child. (not referring to my own parenting, which was less than stellar) I was in family group sessions where the kid had gone off in a direction that could NOT have been anticipated. It happened in divorced families, adoptive families, intact families, wealthy families and poor families alike. It happened where there were other “normal” siblings and in only-child situations.</p>
<p>I liken the situation to drinking/smoking while pregnant.</p>
<p>No one here would advocate drinking/smoking while pregnant because we know that some babies would be damaged by that. We all know some kids who’ve managed to emerge perfectly healthy despite being exposed to drinking/smoking during gestation.</p>
<p>However, because some number of kids are damaged (and we never know until it’s too late and the damage is done), health professionals just direct all pregnant mothers to refrain from drinking/smoking.</p>
<p>If a child is damaged from gestational smoking/drinking, no one logically dismisses the claims that it was caused by those drugs just because we all know babies/kids who weren’t harmed. It’s usually smaller percentages who are damaged, rarely 100% or close to 100% (unless its a very toxic drug - like crack cocaine or thalidomide ). That’s why the outcries that “other kids” don’t kill/abuse who grow up in similar circumstances doesn’t hold water.</p>
<p>From the above analogy, this can be drawn. It doesn’t matter that some kids emerge unscathed from the environment that created George Haguely. The fact is that some kids - perhaps more often boys - emerge with anger management problems and the inability to handle rejection/loss. And, the fact remains that we never know until the damage is done.</p>
<p>Somebody earlier mentioned the Virginia Gentlemen singing On the Turning Away at the vigil. I don’t see that yet on Youtube but there is a video from March. It is a powerful song and can’t imagine how these guys must have felt doing it at a vigil in this context. This is heartbreaking. My son graduated from UVa last year, have been to the campus many times. One of the greatest moments of my life was seeing him and all the other proud graduates walking down the Lawn last May to graduate. To think that Yeardley will not have that opportunity is tragic.</p>
<p>^^Agree, this type of behavior is generally not “public” and I doubt his team even thought him capable of that type of violent behavior. If any women in the past had experienced aggressive behavior they very well could simply have distanced themselves and not given it a second thought or attributed it to being “drunk” etc. Sometimes certain relationships are powderkeg and bring out behavior in both men and women that would never have happened in another relationship. I doubt anybody can armchair analyze these types of situations.</p>
<p>I certainly think the parents should have known more than friends and teammates.</p>
<p>“The University Judiciary Committee (UJC) is the central governing and operating body of the University Judicial System, and is authorized to investigate and adjudicate alleged violations of the University’s Standards of Conduct.” (from UVA’s website)</p>
<p>A university representative said that, had Huguely’s Lexington arrest and conviction been known, he “might” have had to do (more?) substance abuse education or appear before the University Judiciary Committee. The UJC investigates violations of the University’s Standards of Conduct. There must be something in the Standards of Conduct…really would be nice if someone familiar with these various documents could enlighten us, including whether there are additional rule for athletes.</p>
<p>The code of silence is strong amongst athletes. I read a news report this morning where a reporter was asking questions about Huguely to two LAX players. They indicated that he had a temper but they did not want to disclose their identities or anymore information because they feared repercussions from their teammates.</p>
<p>I do not blame the coaches, parents, athletes or anyone else for Huguely’s actions. But I can’t help but think if only one athlete had spoken up to a teacher or counselor, Ms. Love might be alive today.</p>
<p>And, people ask: why should all the team lose out on the NCAAs because of one bad act by one team member? Precisely because they are a team. By their silence, they betrayed one of their own.</p>
<p>Hanna, I wasn’t suggesting that parents wait until their sons are in college to have those kinds of heart to heart talks. I meant that discussions of the sort should be part of every boy’s upbringing. And I fully understand that it isn’t realistic to expect that.</p>
<p>How many of the players on a college lacrosse team “have a temper?” It’s like football–all the players are aggressive types. Without knowing more, I don’t see why there’s any reason to believe that the other lacrosse players were silent about anything unusual.</p>
<p>There are now reports in both the Washington Post and the NY Times that there was at least one other incident. Since the descriptions of when the incidents occurred are so different–one, two months ago; one two weeks ago; one on-campus, one “near campus” it may actually be TWO incidents. </p>
<p>Indeed, the NYTimes article refers to “altercations”–note plural–and it’s clear that at least one of these was public:</p>
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<p>I made the point back in post #276 that I think that part of what went wrong here is that the victim and the defendant were part of the same social set. So, it’s interesting --well, to me at least–that it is being reported that in one such incident, two lacrosse players FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA pulled Huguely away from Ms. Love when he attacked her at a party. So, maybe this is not about lacrosse per se. Maybe it’s about the fact that it’s easier to step in when the normally nice guy who is an angry drunk acts out if he’s not one of your buddies. </p>
<p>On the criminal check subject…Maybe I misunderstood what I read. However, my understanding is that UVa has its own police force and that police force has access to the state police data base. Casteen said he was unaware of that fact. </p>
<p>According to statements made by UVa, it was Huguely’s obligation pursuant to UVa policy to report his conviction to his coach. (Since Dom Stasia hasn’t commented, I don’t know whether he did or not.) Lets assume he didn’t. If Uva’s athletic department had a rule that a student who failed to do that would be off the team automatically and it was also known that it at least did sport checks once in a while, then maybe Huguely would have reported himself.</p>
<p>I don’t think it would have saved Ms. Love’s life. It’s just that the fact that, according to the WP, nine of the 41 players have some sort of record and there is at least one player OTHER than Huguely who was charged with DUI makes it hard for me to believe that UVa was doing a heck of a lot about the purported drinking culture of the lacrosse team.</p>
<p>Pictures taken of the couple at a happier time just reminded me of the overall size difference between the two. </p>
<p>[UVA</a> Lacrosse Death: The Latest on George Huguely and Yeardley Love | Bleacher Report](<a href=“http://bleacherreport.com/articles/388030-uva-lacrosse-death-the-latest-on-george-huguely-and-yeardley-love#page/1]UVA”>http://bleacherreport.com/articles/388030-uva-lacrosse-death-the-latest-on-george-huguely-and-yeardley-love#page/1)</p>