Student on Student Lacrosse Murder at UVa

<p>There again, Sooz, you fail to see the matter globally. Kids who are abused at home often go on to repeat the pattern in their primary relationships (not just their relationships with their children, but in their dating relationships as well).</p>

<p>It’s comical how much defensive reactions this receives from females when the literature (which I am very well read on) clearly supports my position. </p>

<p>I hope ALL the abuse STOPS (wishful thinking, it’s been going on since forever). If we’re really SERIOUS about stopping it, however, we need to figure out how to stop ALL OF IT.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Because women were not part of this problem. A violent guy allegedly beat up and killed his former girlfriend. His male friends tell the newspapers they knew he was violent when he got drunk, but did nothing about it.</p>

<p>When we hear about a violent female college student killing her former boyfriend, then we’ll talk about that issue.</p>

<p>It’s hard for me to think of a sport where the men and women DON’T hang out together a lot. Crew, maybe, and baseball/softball. I haven’t seen it a lot in soccer, but I’m not sure there.</p>

<p>Men and women who play basketball certainly seem to hang out together, and to play together informally. Ditto with all racquet sports. There certainly seem to be lots of tennis players dating one another. Golf?</p>

<p>I have two volleyball-playing nieces (well, one current and one former). If it weren’t for male volleyball players and basketball players, neither of them would have ever been kissed by someone who wasn’t standing on tiptoes. There are tall men other places, but they aren’t as easy to find if you are really busy and spend 2/3ds of your life in the gym.</p>

<p>One of my kids is a club fencer. On his team, the men and women do everything together, including practice and socializing. He spends much more time with the women who fence the same equipment he does than with male teammates who use other types.</p>

<p>Ultimate frisbee has co-ed teams and a lot of co-ed partying.</p>

<p>Cardinal Fang: you quoted one snippet of my post and avoided the issue. Thanks for proving my point.</p>

<p>Part of this story is that people either missed or failed to report the warning signs. Here I am doing just that and TAKE NOTE of the responses, including yours.</p>

<p>This past fall there was an incident at an elite college where 3 senior athletes who were known for getting into very violent fights (with guys not on their team) violently beat up a fellow student after an altercation at a bar. The victim’s teeth were poking through his cheek and he was frothing at the mouth. He was in serious condition. The boys (men) were arrested and charged with felony assault. They were suspended from the team (not a helmet sport). There was suspected steroid abuse. Consensus outside the team was that the men deserved to be convicted since “they had been beating the cr@@p out of people for 4 years.” Ultimately, they negotiated a plea (I believe the victim had to agree to the probation or whatever it was) and 2 of them were back on the team. The third one red-shirted (which also required some string-pulling since this league does not generally allow red-shirting). I am a fan of college athletics and my son was a recruited athlete (although in a sport where you wouldn’t dare get in a fight because you would not win…), but I do know that the culture on some teams can be very, very destructive. I have a friend who covers high-level college lacrosse for a news network and he said that, with a few exceptions, it is a disaster waiting to happen. He said he has observed team members being ridiculed for refusing to fight.</p>

<p>sadatthisstory wrote:</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>I already gave you the statistics that in intimate relationships, the majority of victims are women when it comes to abuse and violence and murder, but some are men. </p>

<p>Yes, the problem exists in any types of domestic abuse and violence, no matter the gender. I can’t imagine anyone not agreeing with that. But please do not deny the statistics as there is a gender imbalance in this area. </p>

<p>In any case, while I agree that domestic violence needs to be addressed for any gender, the story on this thread is about violence of a male over his girlfriend. Pushing the point of women being violent against men in relationships doesn’t seem all the relevant to this story, other than it is another issue that should also be important. Also, you chose to link to an article about mothers abusing children which is not relevant here. Ya know, parents do abuse children, both boys and girls, but still, more males abuse their female partners in relationships, than vice versa.</p>

<p>Okay, I’m out. I’m not here to listen to people ignore the global nature of the problem and wiggle this into a thread about male bashing. Every one of the responses to my posts have neglected the entirety of the post and spun it back to the main focus which is: MEN ARE THE PROBLEM, yeah, sometimes women do it but we’re here to talk about MEN DOING IT, and we have no interest in finding out why. </p>

<p>None of this surprises me. </p>

<p>I don’t have a problem understanding that men are a BIG PART of the problem. It’s OBVIOUS.</p>

<p>It’s also obvious most women don’t want to delve deep enough to determine why. Adios.</p>

<p>Nobody denied the importance of the issue of women’s violence against men in relationships. But this thread is meant to be on topic. It would be like a thread about murders in the African American male population and someone coming on wanting to talk about murders among Caucasian females. Both are important issues but the incident a thread is discussing is on one issue and it doesn’t mean the discussion should be about all other issues and problems that exist. </p>

<p>If you are interested in the topic of female violence against men in relationships, a valid topic, why don’t you start a thread on it? It isn’t relevant to the Yeardley Love murder. It comes across as if you came to CC, joined this one thread only, to push a specific agenda. If you have a topic that you wish to discuss, start a thread on it.</p>

<p>

It’s not bewildering to me. They have circled the wagons.</p>

<p>I thought the two teams were close-knit. If that is true, then why did just “a few” members of the male lacrosse team go to the vigil? The article about the funeral said that Yeardley’s teammates on the women’s team will be there, but nothing about the mens’ team. </p>

<p>Maybe it’s just inaccurate reporting. Or maybe not. Maybe they were TOLD to circle the wagons?</p>

<p>From today’s op/ed page in the Baltimore Sun.</p>

<p>[Shadow</a> of violence on men’s lacrosse - baltimoresun.com](<a href=“http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bs-ed-lacrosse-violence-20100507,0,2368609.story]Shadow”>http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bs-ed-lacrosse-violence-20100507,0,2368609.story)</p>

<p>I read an opinion piece bemoaning this week’s media soiling of the sport of lacrosse Of course, lacrosse had nothing to do with Ms. Love’s death. It was then further suggested that it would have been appropriate for the women’s team to cancel the rest of their season. But the men’s team? Why would they ruin their NCAA title run because of the difficulties of one player? </p>

<p>I couldn’t believe it.</p>

<p>It is so hard to read these stories day after day of relationship violence and murder. Here is a story that just came out in the news of a couple in their 20’s where the man went into an Old Navy store and shot and killed his girlfriend, an employee there, and then shot himself. Way way too many of these stories. </p>

<p>[Old</a> Navy Shooting in Chicago Leaves Two Dead - Crimesider - CBS News](<a href=“http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20004467-504083.html]Old”>http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20004467-504083.html)</p>

<p>Huguely attacked one of his own teammates back in 2/09</p>

<p>[url=<a href=“http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/07/AR2010050704056.html]washingtonpost.com[/url”>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/07/AR2010050704056.html]washingtonpost.com[/url</a>]</p>

<p>I apologize if anyone has already posted this link to an article in The Atlantic. </p>

<p>[UVA</a> Men’s Lacrosse Should Sit Out the Dance - National - The Atlantic](<a href=“UVA Men's Lacrosse Should Sit Out the Dance - The Atlantic”>UVA Men's Lacrosse Should Sit Out the Dance - The Atlantic)</p>

<p>I know the media is digging for anything and everything right now, but the evidence that this kid had red flag after red flag keeps presenting itself. I know hindsight is 20/20, but many people in his world dropped the ball. In sports, teammates can get into heated battles in practice, and occasionally it results in physical confrontations, but to have one player go into another teammate’s room and beats him up so bad the victim has to wear sunglasses to hide the bruises? In the article the former teammate says it was “like a brotherly fight” and each talked to their coach as they prepared for their big game with Syracuse.</p>

<p>It is interesting, I guess the “punishment” wasn’t too bad for George in this altercation either. He played in the game:</p>

<p><a href=“http://suathletics.syr.edu/sports/2009/2/27/MLAX_0227090908.aspx?id=6313[/url]”>http://suathletics.syr.edu/sports/2009/2/27/MLAX_0227090908.aspx?id=6313&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>If these reports have any degree of truth to them at all, they are showing him to be a ticking bomb just waiting to explode.</p>

<p>Great link, cartera45. Thanks.</p>

<p>Although I originally didn’t have an opinion, now I think that the high road would be for the UVA men’s lacrosse team to bow out of the NCAA tournament. </p>

<p>Of course it doesn’t appear that the team has always traveled the high road in the past, so who’s expecting it now? (And hey hey HEY now there’s a national championship they could win!!!) Some of those young men should have spoken out about their teammate. Perhaps the coach should have alerted someone in administration about Huguely’s repeated out of control actions.</p>

<p>(I wonder if they would have bowed out if they weren’t ranked #1. I also wonder if Miss Love’s family would still want the men’s team to play if they knew what they know now…)</p>

<p>Coach Starsia’s father died this morning so a very difficult time for him too.</p>

<p>Someone claiming to be a former female athlete at UVa says that there had been other instances of violence in “romantic” relationships among UVa athletes which were kept quiet:</p>

<p>[UVa</a>. murder sheds light on assault by athletes - Washington Times](<a href=“http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/may/07/uva-murder-sheds-light-on-assault-by-athletes/]UVa”>UVa. murder sheds light on assault by athletes - Washington Times)</p>

<p>There are many ways to speculate as to the hows, whys and whens of this.</p>

<p>If you or your child have ever been in involved in upper level sports, there is a very specific elitist “Lord of the Flies” survival of the fittest mindset. Colleges look the other way ALL the time with top athletes and their behavior. But although rarely required to face the consequences of their acts does that empower the “special” athlete to ignore that those consequences do/can exist. Are they just given a free pass to do as they please or do they not have some responsibility for themselves.</p>

<p>As a society we routinely look the other way at the transgressions of sports figures. They seem to just operate by a separate set of rules, there is no question about it. But is the sports page not filled with those brought to justice that somewhere it should seep in that there are consequences to your actions.</p>

<p>Here you have a young man, clearly of a privileged background with a history of violence and bad behavior that went ignored, went unchecked because come Saturdays he was a star for UVA. But so is he excused from personal responsibility because those around him failed to act for him. At 22 doesn’t HE know right from wrong. Are others required to make him act appropriately at that age. He’s 22, not 2.</p>

<p>He attacked a police officer in the past. Had an altercation with his father. He does not bother to care about consequences as he has never been made to face them. But not caring and not knowing are too different things. Cetainly he knows, but apparently doesn’t care.</p>

<p>You put him up against this poor victim, a seemingly strong, independent female that was pretty clearly telling him no, she was not seeing him anymore and this boy doesn’t like hearing “no”, doesn’t accept “no” those are the choices he makes and so he threw the ultimate temper tantrum, broke into this woman’s home (a felony) beat her to death with his bare hands and stole her computer (another felonious act). </p>

<p>Once confronted by the police his complete and total arrogance and chosen disregard that he could ever face consequences due to his unchecked notion of self-importance, leads him to immediately confess and why not, there is no conception on his part that he can ever be held accountable because he never has been held accountable, he always works things to get his way, the choice he always makes. He’s a star, he’s “royalty” and he skates on to the next escapade in his mind because he chooses not to accept anything else as a possibility. HE makes that choice in assessing his risks, i.e. he can get away with what he wants. HE execercises that freedom of choice.</p>

<p>With all this said, are all these other people and institutions to blame, are they enablers or is the concept of personal responsibility just simply lost in today’s world. What I see is a spoiled rotten brat, an elitist little pig but one old enough to know right from wrong and he chose wrong, but he and he alone, fully armed with the knowledge of right and wrong, made his choice and he must face the consequences of his actions without excuse, without deep analysis of what brought him to this. </p>

<p>At 22 years old, whether from the depths of the worst ghetto or the heights of the most elite of communities you know right from wrong regardless of all these other factors and you make the choice as to how you wish to act by weighing the risks of your acts. He made his choice. Confronted with not getting his way, he was willing to do whatever it took to get his way even if it meant beating this poor young woman to death. Getting his way was more important than any consequence he might face. He made his choice and there is no excuse for him not paying the price.</p>

<p>Well said, bullwinkle. “He made his choice and there is no excuse for him not paying the price.”</p>