<p>From Ms. Lammer, who says she was an athlete at Virginia:
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<p>So those guys can go off to another school to beat up more women? Way to show honor, Virginia. Jefferson would be proud.</p>
<p>There is an interesting piece in the SB Nation Blog with interesting comments which seems to understand it’s not just a ‘men’s lacrosse culture’ that has a problem treating people poorly; it can happen from the women’s programs, too.</p>
<p>It’s been going on a LONG TIME. And it’s all about choices (often ones people get away without consequence from). If Huegely is guilty of this crime I hope he pays dearly for his choice/s. This young lady should not die in vain, and improvements throughout all athletic programs should get an overhaul as a result of it.</p>
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<p>Very well said.</p>
<p>I find the defensiveness about UVA and LAX to be strange and disturbing. A woman was brutally murdered and despite what those of you who are waving your arms and yelling “nothing to see here!” want to believe, it did not happen in a vacuum. There is the larger culture to deal with and then there are the smaller cultures that made up this woman’s life and death.</p>
<p>Everything must be examined, including the campus, including the sport. The effort to pre-emptively declare that those eviroments had nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with this muder comes across as being more concerned with the reputation of a school and a sport than the death of a human being and preventing the next one.</p>
<p>Until we stop attempting to write each of these murders as “one person acting under his own free will”, then we are guarenteeing the next murder. This happened in my country, in my culture and, yes, there is a problem. </p>
<p>What is the priority here?</p>
<p>sadat,
The article you link to by Andrew Sharp makes no reference to women’s programs at all. He discusses men’s lacrosse culture in the Wash-DC area.</p>
<p>A statement from the article:</p>
<p>“How could someone like Yeardley Love get beaten to death? How can that happen, ever?”</p>
<p>“We’ll never fully understand it. But if I’m answering honestlyignoring the scores of decent people who risk indictment by associationGeorge Huguely’s lacrosse background was definitely part of it”</p>
<p>I think your continuous attempt to assert that women’s programs are responsible for the type of violence that took Ms. Love’s life are reprehensible. You should be ashamed of yourself.</p>
<p>If you want to discuss violence in women’s sports, start another thread.</p>
<p>*A friend of Huguely’s who played lacrosse with him in summer leagues told the Daily News that Huguely “partied really hard and when he was drunk or f----- up, he could be violent. He would get out of control.”</p>
<p>Huguely was described by the summer league teammate as “obsessive,” constantly texting and calling Love, to the point that people close to her worried about the relationship.</p>
<p>Pleasants said no protective order had been filed in the local magistrate’s office.</p>
<p>A former Virginia student who was friends with both Love and Huguely described a disturbing incident in which Huguely recently reportedly attacked Love, then had no recollection of it the next day, which precipitated their final breakup. “He was really messed up and punched a window of a car on the way over to her apartment that night,” the friend said, speaking on the condition of anonymity out of consideration for Love’s family. The friend said Huguely had been seen breaking bottles at another party before Love’s death and had told people he was going to her apartment to get Love back.</p>
<p>The New York Times also reported on Thursday that two Cavalier athletes had witnessed an altercation between Love and Huguely earlier this spring.</p>
<p>*</p>
<p>It’s crazy that his friends saw how he was behaving that night, and did nothing to stop him when he said he was going over to her home that night. The least they could have done is tip her off or call the police.</p>
<p>Where is the post/article that mentions that George had some kind of altercation with his father?</p>
<p>I wonder if he ever hit his mother or sister?</p>
<p>Yorky, I’ve never once done what you accuse me of. I’m merely pointing out that athletic programs of both genders tend to glorify athletes and enable them to avoid the consequences of their conduct - when many posters here think it’s just the men. </p>
<p>And I find your mischaracterization and lack of concern for it deplorable.</p>
<p>Re: post 564:
I’m not gettin’ it either. First sadathisstory gives a link to an article on mothers abusing children. That’s a problem, but unrelated to this incident. Then he posts a story about lacrosse culture that makes no reference to women’s programs. His agenda about women abusing or being violent against men in relationships is not supported by either article. Now, it is an issue, sure, but it is not related to the topic of this thread.</p>
<p>sadatthisstory (#566), you keep maintaining that people lack concern about women abusing men. I think that is a problem too…all violance and all relationship abuse is a problem…but the issue of women being violent against men in relationships is not related to THIS thread. Why not start a thread on your genuine concern? Not to mention, you said goodbye to this thread earlier today (you are free to post on this thread of course, but just saying).</p>
<p>Off the top of my head, I can think of a number of prominent male athletes who have attacked women. I can’t think of one prominent female athlete who has a attacked a man, or indeed a female intimate partner. I’m not saying such women don’t exist, but this sure seems like a problem that’s much more common among men.</p>
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<p>how does the saying go? Something like “admitting there is a problem is the first step to solving it”… I think that is close. Obviously the blue and orange community failed to stand up for each other in this instance. I don’t think there is anyway you can argue otherwise.</p>
<p>UVA is a superb place, no questions asked. I hope both teams win national titles this year. I will be rooting for them. But there are clearly some things that need to be addressed. I’m sure they will be, and UVA will be a better place because of it.</p>
<p>Compassion does not fix problems.</p>
<p>the following quote is from vistany. As you can see, the post is in complete violation of the TOS on this website.</p>
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<p>I didn’t make a joke. The text I quoted basically said that “she is dead, but at least her family gets a piece of paper to put on the wall.”</p>
<p>I responded that the piece of paper will do her no good, and I do not think it will make the family feel any better, since they would’ve had a daughter and a piece of paper, but now they just have a piece of paper.</p>
<p>Do you have an issue with that? Man up and post that you think it is comforting to have a piece of paper instead of your daughter. If you don’t think that, then you are agreeing with what I said in my original post that you quoted.</p>
<p>Please get off your high horse and stop violating the terms you agreed to when making an account on this board. Your ad hominem attacks are unacceptable and a poor representative of you as a person. I have reported your post. Thank you.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, I’ve had experience with this…family member smacked in the face by her then BF (her father told her to get on a plane and get out. She left that night and never came back)…my roommate in NY ( BF was not allowed in our apartment. I was terrified of him…Ivy educated *******…they’re now married and he’s been arrested more than once…she stays with him for reasons I can’t fathom) and more recently a friend’s daughter at a very prestigious southern U…she got the HELL out of the relationship and never looked back. No dinners, no talking, no nothing. ) How many deaths and wake up calls do we need here? This has been going on for decades.</p>
<p>Soccerguy, don’t be too harsh on Dean J and the UVA community. They are dealing with a tragedy that has rocked them to the core. It is finals week and the students are already stressed. It is hard for them to focus on writing papers and studying. Dealing with the hordes of reporters and news crews that have descended on Charlottesville is adding to that stress. The coach of the men’s lacrosse team lost his father yesterday, in addition to losing one of his players who is accused of murder.</p>
<p>Compassion is indeed what is needed right now. There will be plenty of time to ask the hard questions later as more information becomes available.</p>
<p>DH and I had an argument night before last about this. He went to grad school at UVA and has been following it, as have I. He kept insisting that the UVA coaches, etc. would have no idea that this kid was trouble, and I insisted that I’m SURE everyone knew about him, because its a small world as people have noted in this thread. How could word not travel from W and L about that altercation in a heartbeat via texting, friends, etc? The kid was a loose cannon, a talented “student athlete” and let’s just look the other way cuz hey, he’s a great scorer!</p>
<p>I am putting on my flame retardant clothing as I write this, but UVA and other schools can do many things to try to prevent this type of sad event from reoccurring, it will be welcomed, but I don’t feel it will be enough. Intervention has to start way earlier than that. (and then it isn’t a guarantee-but at least attempt it) Kids from an early age need to witness their parents trying to resolve conflicts in a mature, respectful manner, and from the time when they are very young they need to know that mom and dad will punish them for their mistakes- they aren’t always Princes or Princesses. Children learn what they live. </p>
<p>In looking at the reports from this young man’s past, he experienced a divorce at age 10. I wonder, how much was he allowed to get away with and allowed to drink/party because his biological dad wasn’t living in the home and stepdad was there instead? How much bitterness and marital stress was in that household while he was in his pre-teenage years? </p>
<p>In the article from down in Florida, Huguely supposedly jumped off the boat after his dad told him he was taking him home; Huguely wanted to go back to the beach. Was that Dad or stepdad trying to intervene and corral him? I feel that with teenage boys, dads have a huge amount of influence. Maybe the breakdown of this family was just another factor that played into his eventual choices and behavior.</p>
<p>Very well said 12rmh18. My heart goes out to the whole UVA community as they deal with this tragedy and the profound sadness we are all feeling.</p>
<p>Think about back when we were in college, and how student on student violence happenned (I’m talking about short of murder. more like battering and date rape) We didn’t have names for it yet alone resources to help us figure out what to do. Our campus didn’t even have a shrink! We just returned from a midwestern LAC (college look-see) where there were posters up about “Don’t put up with assault! Call the hotline! Don’t be a victim!” etc. and it did get me thinking. I’m not blaming here, but I can’t help wondering why her friends didn’t pick up the phone and ?? call her mother or something? My husband did that in college when he realised that his GF was anorexic and was in denial. He didn’t know how to help her but tried that. She was put in residential treatment. I know domestic violence isn’t the same thing but why didn’t SOMEONE use a resource on campus for help? Maybe she thought she could deal with it herself? Embarrassment? Denial?</p>
<p>dke, as I mentioned upthread, perhaps colleges (even high schools) will add as part of orientation and other events, education about relationship abuse, just like they have required programs about drug and alcohol abuse. Awareness will help. Signs to look for. Actions one can take. The importance of helping friends and not keeping quiet. Etc.</p>
<p>That would be great, I agree. I’m just wondering where the common sense is. Why didn’t bells go off with someone, anyone, about the boy’s issues with booze and anger, or about the girl’s safety? It’s like they fell through the cracks.</p>
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The defensiveness about UVA and lacrosse is strange. The more that comes out, the more it seems that the NON-vacuum of this whole tragedy should have been noticed and acted upon. This boy had a history of out-of-control behavior. The team had to have known. He’d told at least one person he was going to Miss Love’s apartment to get her back the night of the murder. I wonder how that person feels now. Was it a fellow lacrosse teammate, a fellow DKE brother, another friend…shoebox posted about how UVA takes care of their own. In this case they sure did NOT. </p>
<p>Laura Christine Lammers showed great courage in writing that article about the violence towards women in sports at UVA. I’m sure the circled wagons didn’t like that one bit! </p>
<p>UVA is a great institution. This whole tragedy is exposing a dark side, though. I wonder what will change in the wake of this tragedy? Anything at all other than Casteen’s statement that police databases will now be checked? Do they dare change something about the very culture of the sport at UVA?</p>