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<p>I think that campus culture needs to change. It needs to become so that not only is it socially acceptable, but also socially desirable for students to seek help, or to seek help for a roommate or friend.</p>
<p>This is a generation that has the mantra “Get outa my biz”. I don’t find it the least bit surprising that no one did anything about this young man’s violent behavior and alcohol induced rages. They did not have the ability to look ahead and see what tragic consequences could result. I’ve seen this over and over again, including in the situation I noted above with the athletes who beat up the guy outside a bar. No one was the least bit surprised, but the attitude was “What was I supposed to do about it?”</p>
<p>I like the direction the thread is going on this page. I would like to acknowledge a great post by KandK’sMom which is insightful into the rhizoid of this young man’s pathology (although I think his mother may have something to do with it, too). Sorry, there I go again. </p>
<p>I think what can happen is that we socialize up into a world where… we bring any dysfunction we gained from our families of origin (plus we’re not mature and wise to the ways of the world yet). Add alcohol+, initial sexual encounters/lack of experience – AND a culture that figures it KEWL to treat people, including the opposite sex, as disposable toys for one’s own gratification – and you certainly have the recipe for Trouble. When a guy or gal gets treated that way he/she is more apt, I feel, to pass that behavior on than if it hadn’t happened. It’s the ‘you don’t dump me, I dump you’ syndrome. It’s really about not getting hurt but it often leads to people getting hurt. </p>
<p>As far as any commitments she may have made to him which she may have felt obligated to, those bets were off when he assaulted her the very first time. And it seemed like she was trapped inside the microcosmic culture between the two lacrosse teams and didn’t want to ‘get him in trouble’ - and it was so close to them parting ways as Graduating Seniors, she likely just hoped she could get beyond the next few weeks and not mess up his chances at playing in the tourney or graduating. His friends who knew about it really should have stepped up (or in, however you call it) but they, too, are young and likely didn’t presume he could go this far (we’re all shocked about it). I can’t really say I blame them, I blame the person who did it. </p>
<p>Sooz, I appreciate your comments about ‘healthy relationship courses’ (I forget how you put it) maybe even starting in High School. I feel that would be a Big Step in the right direction. I’m not interested in blaming women; I think men are a much larger part of the problem. 3 women are killed in this country PER DAY by their current or former ‘partners’. It’s TRAGIC, it’s epidemic, and it’s just GOT TO STOP.</p>
<p>I"m not sure if men are the larger part of the problem or not. I’m not blaming this girl, but it takes two to tango. I know my POV isn’t PC, but women who meet, date for a long time (sometimes) before marrying men with these behaviors at some point have to take a look at their choices. They’re not forced to be with these men in the first place and the men don’t turn violent all of a sudden in all cases. There are warning signs and for some reason women often look the other way. “I understand him like no one else does. I can fix him” whatever. Its about choices and judgement IMHO. No flames, please but somebody’s got to say it.</p>
<p>*What if she’d made commitments to him, Cartera?</p>
<p>Many women figure they can just ditch men instead of working through problems in a relationship they’ve committed to when they just don’t feel like it anymore. In marriage they can soak you dry in this system. Until some women start understanding that’s not a healthy approach, this kind of thing will continue. *</p>
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As far as any commitments she may have made to him which she may have felt obligated to, those bets were off when he assaulted her the very first time.*</p>
<p>Someone who is merely dating or is even engaged can still morally and ethically break a “commitment” without the need for abuse to be involved. You seem to be suggesting in the above quotes that only once abuse entered the relationship that she had the right to break off the relationship. That is crazy.</p>
<p>What kind of commitment are you suggesting that she might have made to him that she can only leave if he abuses her???</p>
<p>Yes, people who are married should have more than just some minor reason to break a marriage, but people who are dating can break a relationship over the most minor reasons and they have the right to do so.</p>
<p>^^this young woman broke up with this young man because of his abuse. she recognized she needed to get away from him.</p>
<p>today is her funeral, may she rest in peace and may we all learn not to blame the victim.</p>
<p>Of course they have the right to do so, MOM2, but they need to do so in a decent way, cognizant of the commitments they may have made which they now want to sever.</p>
<p>MOWC, if what you say is true (which it probably is) this is very scary indeed. We’re back to the days of Kitty Genovese. Whatever happenned to “It Takes A Village”?</p>
<p>I’m afraid we never quite left the days of Kitty Genovese. I think I recently read of an attack in NYC where people just walked on by.</p>
<p>What happenned to female empowerment on campus? Is that gone? I guess having gone to a womens college and having Gloria Steinem always drumming into us that we could run the world is passe…I liked that culture better than what I’m reading here…not getting involved…nobody’s business, etc. This is so sad.</p>
<p>A few years back when I posted about D1 maybe stalked by a young man, there were quite a few posters who thought I was over reacting (and I could have very well been). </p>
<p>D1 started dating a young man over a summer. He graduated from a HYPS, a promising job at a top tier IB firm, and he was an athlete (don’t remember the sport). At first he was very nice and polite. He took D1 to all the nicest restaurants in NYC. But D1 just never felt comfortable with him (he had the nicest manners, but every once in a while some nastiness would come out). She broke it off after he was too persistent and verbally abusive one night. He then continued to contact her, oscillated between sweet and hostile with his messages. It was so bad one night D1 came into our room middle of the night crying.</p>
<p>I was concerned enough that I read up on stalking and posted on CC. There were few parents on CC who’s been through similar experience with their daughters that I got some good advice from. I was told not to have D1 change her phone #, which is what most people would want to do. If it’s changed, then the stalker would just find a way of getting the new number or find other ways of communication. By keeping the old number, it is a good way of monitoring frequency of calls and what the stalker is up to. It is best not to answer the phone or to have any contact. I also made D1’s school aware of the situation. We were lucky that this young man stopped contacting D1 after few months. It could very well have been nothing (over reaction on our part), or maybe he just found a new target because D1 never responded.</p>
<p>I do agree that we all should be aware of domestic/date violence. Young people need to be educated about it and not take it lightly.</p>
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<p>This is exactly the talk that discourages women from getting help and it has to stop. It’s not wrong to educate women on making good choices, but after they have made a bad one, they cannot feel guilt or shame or they will not come forward. They then may try to fix things and get injured or killed in the effort. </p>
<p>Sometimes the violence really does come out of nowhere. Friends may have known. Family may have known, but when a girl (woman) meets a boy (man) everyone is on best behavior and let me tell you that best behavior can last longer than you might think. Losing a job may bring it out. Drinking may bring it out. The little bickering that develops in a lot of relationships may bring it out. When you meet someone at college, there may not be any friends or family around to even warn you.</p>
<p>Edited to add. Sometimes a switch flips when a woman tries to leave a man - or when a man tries to leave a woman. Looking back, there may have been very subtle signs, but who is going to think that someone being disappointed when you go out with friends is going to turn full fledged stalker when you try to break it off?</p>
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<p>My son experienced a divorce beginning at age 10; it wasn’t finalized until he was 14. (Not to mention experiencing one parent’s gender change after that, and dealing with his own coming-out process.) There’s no question that he was very angry for a number of years (even though he didn’t admit it), especially in his early teens, and it was a struggle for him to learn (with the help of therapy) to manage that anger and not explode with it against his parents. He even hit me a few times, and did the same to my ex. (Of course, he was too little then to do any harm.)</p>
<p>But he’s grown up to become a wonderful young man at 20, and so far as I know, he hasn’t abused, let alone killed, anyone. He’s never struck me as someone with any sense of entitlement (if anything, he goes too far in the other direction – I think he takes after me that way!), and he’s told me that his friends see him as the one who always seems happy, no matter how much stress he’s under. Quite a change.</p>
<p>Is there any actual evidence – as opposed to speculation – that children whose parents divorce at a young age are more prone to committing domestic violence later in life? I’ve certainly never heard anything to that effect.</p>
<p>There could be some validity to the notion that you never REALLY get to know somebody until you break up with them (or it starts going South fast). I hope that isn’t true, but in some cases I think it is. If you really dig back through the entire relationship often you will see the signs had been there… but I don’t know if you could spot a murderer (unless they start threatening to kill you, I guess, but I doubt you’re going to spot that early on unless your dating an inmate or ex-con).</p>
<p>I wonder if the fact that Yeardley was an tremendously tough lacrosse player may have also played into the situation and caused her to downplay or not fully disclose Huguely’s abuse. Women athletes, especially at that level, have to be extremely strong willed and powerful in both their mental and physical makeups. I will bet she viewed herself (and was) as being proud, tough and strong enough female (athlete) that could stand up to him and his tirades. Maybe she did not ask for help because it would seem that to her, as an athlete, she would seem weak and would be giving into him. I wish with all of my heart that she had the foresight earlier to see what he was ultimately capable of. </p>
<p>The only consoling thought I have right now is that she is with her dad in Heaven. He died a few years ago.</p>
<p>Most of the hurt in relationships is caused by the inability to know what the other person is thinking. If someone entering a toxic relationship knew that the other person’s idea of commitment was to do what they say, when they say it, no questions asked, these control freaks would never have partners to abuse, stalk, or kill. They would be shunned on sight. Unfortunately, like most people, they like to be around other people, so they learn to hide their controlling tendencies until the potential partner has been suckered into caring. Once the hitting or emotional blackmail starts, it is far past time to leave. This is one reason why the current hook-up culture at many colleges is too stupid to believe. Intimacy before knowledge about character guarantees that someone sensitive will get hurt in the process. Many kids go to college feeling entitled to physically enjoy young, intelligent, healthy partners with as little emotional (and much less financial) investment as an escort service would require. The control freaks actually do care (for the wrong reasons), so they can seem appealing to those with a more romantic attitude. Navigation between the control freaks and the porn shop customers for someone seeking a genuine relationship is a hazardous business for young kids. Someone should teach a class in high school on avoiding both sets of losers since it is quite obviously important to young adult health and happiness.</p>
<p>DonnaL, I wasn’t trying to imply that all divorces are detrimental to the development of children/teens. I have divorce in my family also and like yours, the kids have turned out great. But it takes a family effort, and often times professional intervention like you undertook, to ensure that a situation like a divorce is something everyone can deal with.</p>
<p>There are just as many messed up kids that come from families whose parents stay together and should go their separate ways because the relationship is so volatile. I was just speculating about this family’s background and the possibility that Huguely may have been affected negatively by events that happened during his formative years. Maybe they didn’t get help for him if he needed it and his anger issues didn’t go away. My post was purely conjecture and speculation, nothing more. I am sure they are all dealing with a lot of introspection now.</p>
<p>*Of course they have the right to do so, MOM2, but they need to do so in a decent way, cognizant of the commitments they may have made which they now want to sever. *</p>
<p>First of all, you have no idea of how she broke up with him. </p>
<p>Secondly… yes, everyone should be “decent” when they break up, but even when people don’t break up in a so-called decent way, that doesn’t give the other the right to be abusive. (BTW…many breakups occur during an argument - so no one is being decent at that time)</p>
<p>I’m still confused about what “commitments” you think they had to each other? They weren’t engaged. </p>
<p>You seem to be assuming that this last night was the first time that she saw his anger. It wasn’t. After the first event, she owed him nothing…not even a “decent breakup.”</p>
<p>I wasn’t trying to imply that all divorces are detrimental to the development of children/teens. I have divorce in my family also and like yours, the kids have turned out great. But it takes a family effort, and often times professional intervention like you undertook, to ensure that a situation like a divorce is something everyone can deal with.</p>
<p>Trauma in families can manifest differently in each child. Also, the way the parents behave before, during, and after the divorce can also have a major impact. If the parents were volatile during the marriage or after, the children will be affected differently than those who witnessed civil behavior.</p>
<p>It’s you who’s doing the assuming, MOM2 - twice now. </p>
<p>Of course I have no idea what kind of commitments these two people had - likely only they do. You seem to have some anger issues of your own.</p>