Student on Student Lacrosse Murder at UVa

Parent Cafe
601

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<p>Everyone, men and women, have the absolute right to walk away from a relationship for any reason and not be abused, assaulted, murdered.</p>

<p>Accepting anything less as understandable in anyway is blaming the victim, it’s putting a stamp of approval on the idea of ownership of another human being and punishment if they want their freedom.</p>

<p>Hurt feelings, drained bank accounts, affairs, I don’t care what happened; no one has the right to stalk, harrass or otherwise hurt another human being. </p>

<p>There is a reason why it is legal to break off a relationship for any reason but it is illegal to use force or coersion to prevent them from doing so.</p>

<p>On this day, of all days, let’s honor this young woman’s memory by affirming her right, and anyone’s else right, to walk away from a relationship for any reason without fear.</p>

602

<p>sadatthisstory, I wasn’t going to address you, but I feel a little sorry for you. You seemed to have been burned in a relationship, but you come accross as blaming women or implying that some women have caused their own abuse. People shouldn’t be cruel to one another and ideally break ups should be dignified and kind, but feelings change and evolve. Saying I love you to someone is a gift not always a life time promise. There was a situation at my son’s HS where a boy shoved a girl, reactions to this varied. She supposedly slapped him or cheated on him. My son’s roomate thought the shove was maybe okay. Thank God my son went ballistic on his roomate, “so what if he thinks she is a b**<strong><em>, no excuse ever for hitting and or laying hands on a girl in anger. He is *</em></strong>ed at her, break up with her, she wants to break up with him. Man Up!” I was proud that my son felt that way and he is right. Real men don’t hit women, you don’t like someones behavior then move on. By the way, by the time he was through his roomate saw his point. S still refuses to talk to the guy who shoved the girl and he is not alone, many of his peers made it pretty clear what they thought of him.</p>

603

<p>I don’t have any anger issues (except being angry that a young woman is needlessly dead!!!). And, I’m discussing your own quotes…</p>

<p>*What if she’d made commitments to him, Cartera?</p>

<p>Many women figure they can just ditch men instead of working through problems in a relationship they’ve committed to when they just don’t feel like it anymore. </p>

<p>As far as any commitments she may have made to him which she may have felt obligated to, those bets were off when he assaulted her the very first time.*</p>

<p>What if she DID make commitments to him? WHAT IS YOUR POINT???</p>

<p>you made the point that women need to stop “ditching men” and instead “work through” their relationship problems. Attempting to “work through” their problems is likely what she tried - since their relationship was “on again and off again.” I don’t know if a clean break would have made a difference. He may have still been angry enough to do the same.</p>

604

<p>I’m seeing an alarming amount of misinformation on this thread about domestic violence. For anyone interested in finding out “why she stays” (I loathe that question…why isn’t the first question, “why is he abusive?”*) Lenore Walker’s research on the cycle of violence is a good place to start for some basic information.<br>
[Cycle</a> Of Violence - Domestic Violence](<a href=“http://www.domesticviolence.org/cycle-of-violence/]Cycle”>http://www.domesticviolence.org/cycle-of-violence/)</p>

<p>Having worked in the filed of DV intervention and prevention for many years, I can tell you that it is far more complicated to be in one of these relationship and to leave them than it appears to the outsider. </p>

<p>I absolutely agree with the idea that this should be part of public eduation. We romanticize abusive behavior far too often. For example, jealousy is not a sign of true love, it’s a controlling behavior. That someone wants to be with you all the time and know where you are all the time is seen as proof of their devotion when, in fact, it’s an isolation technique. </p>

<p>I could list ten books and twenty papers and write all day and night on this topic but the bottom line is that if we want to put a stop to this in our society, then educating ourselves on the research in the field is a great place to start.</p>

<p>*Yes, sometimes it is women who are abusive. I use the pronouns I do based on the statistical odds of the gender of victim/abuser. There is also DV is same-sex relationships. I do not believe that men are inherently abusive, I believe that we oftend do boys a great disservice in how to manage their feelings. Having said that, once a person is an older teen/adult, they are responsible for their actions. There is help out there for those who have anger problems and/or have become abusive.</p>

605

<p>acm, I agree with you and you should be proud of your son. I’ll add to that that no one should physically strike out at another human being. And being hit is not an excuse to hit back if getting away is an option. </p>

<p>We’ve taught our son these things in all his relationships and even with people he doesn’t know; never, ever escalate a violent situation if it is at all possible. </p>

<p>If someone he doesn’t know takes a swing at him in a bar or on the street, he is to walk away. Hitting back may be legally justified, but when the person he just hit pulls out a knife or gun, the law will not protect him in that moment. My husband is a US Marine. He’s taught him some basic self defense but as a very last resort. My husband truly regrets the fights he got into as a teen. He got very lucky and he knows that now. A life can end so fast, it’s far too high a price to pay to indulge ego or pride.</p>

606

<p>S feels violence is only justified in defense of another. He is an athlete and thinks that should teach you control, not be used as an excuse to be “out of control”. Of course he is a rower, not a sport known for agression.</p>

607

<p>anothercrazymom , I wish there were more kids like your son and that he had been friends with or could have influenced George Huguely.</p>

608

<p>Here’s the definition of commitment, Mom2: [Commitment</a> | Define Commitment at Dictionary.com](<a href=“http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/commitment]Commitment”>Commitment Definition & Meaning | Dictionary.com)</p>

<p>What if she made commitments to him? - is a valid question, not because it would necessarily make ‘her’ to bound to the commitment. </p>

<p>I have no idea (in this case, I’m speaking hypothetically) and it’s none of my business. I’m asking WHAT IF, in this case only in the sense that… It may have entered into her thinking on how/if to proceed in the relationship. </p>

<p>You seem to think (again, not referring to this specific relationship) that people should be able to drop out of a relationship they’ve made commitments to ‘for very minor reasons’. How liberating, and immature. Keeping your word and working through problems that happen in ALL RELATIONSHIPS just isn’t necessary? My gal has had a rough time lately so I think I’ll split with the waitress I’ve had my eye on. (rolleyes) - and men pull this crap at least as often as women but I don’t date men. </p>

<p>I’m not talking about the relationship between these two people (especially because I have no earthly idea about it), and I already stated an assault would alleviate a person from a commitment RIGHT THEN (which you seemed to gloss over on in your lecture - I love it when Moms talk to everybody like kids). There are other things, in my view which I am entitled to in entering a relationship, that could suffice for ending a committed relationship abruptly (often depending on what was agreed to in the commitment), such as infidelity, developing a drug problem, getting arrested, stealing, constantly over-spending, any kind of abuse which doesn’t include mere disagreements but more like things such as obsessive/jealousy, controlling behavior and so on, even birth control, etc… etc… (again, these things are typically negotiated between the two people in the relationship - heck, some people like to be ‘swingers’, or whatever). POINT IS: what is agreed to ought be respected even during the ‘lulls’ in a relationship, and if just can’t be for whatever OTHER reason than immediate DEAL BREAKERS, a decent (you seem to have a hard time with that word) break-up is warranted (I’ve had many decent partings of the way so I know the difference). </p>

<p>I wouldn’t make these kind of commitments fully until about the 6 month stage, depending on how it was developing, except for the monogamy one and all the decency that comes with it (but that’s just me, some people make them much sooner than that and some much later than that). If I make a commitment to a woman I feel I am obligated to Honor it come Hell or High Water - I know I’m in the minority.</p>

609

<p>Why do some females think they have a right to use physical violence on a male and then hide behind their gender for protection from retaliation? The rule is: No one has the right to strike another person except in defense. Don’t slap me and I won’t slap you.</p>

610

<p>toblin: I agree, anyone who is physically ar emotionally abused needs to get out of the relationship. Just because a woman is less likely to inflict serious harm does not excuse it.</p>

611

<p>I hate to be the bearer of sad news, Toblin, but I suggest you don’t strike a woman even in self-defense; you’ll wind up going to jail for it. I know I wouldn’t do it, I might push her to get myself out of the way if she was coming at me with a knife - but I’m a rather big fellow and if I hit a woman I’d likely hurt her. But I definitely know what you mean if you’re saying that a woman can take this to mean she can assault away… (you’d be surprised)</p>

612

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<p>So what I’m reading here is, as long as they ‘agreed’ that violence and abuse was OK in their commitment, then it should be respected? I do understand that you’re saying it would be a deal breaker for you, but as long as a couple has entered a commitment in agreement, whatever they choose (you used swinging as an example) should be respected?</p>

<p>Oy vey</p>

613

<p>You are really grasping at straws, Terriwit.</p>

<p>Commitments can, often are, re-negotiated - for various reasons. But violence wouldn’t be one, and if you read that into my post I suggest some reading comprehension courses.</p>

614

<p>sadatthathistory, I don’t think that relationships that are not marriage have the same level of commitment about which you speak. The idea of marriage is a commitment and prior to that, it is OK to get out of a relationship even if for a change of heart or more minor reasons than egregious things. I agree a civil breakup is preferable. My daughter, who is now 21, has been in a few young relationships, and she (her choice) has broken up with these guys every time in a decent fashion (no fight or anything) and in fact, is still very good friends with these guys. She decided she didn’t want to stay in the relationship and she is not committed to do so as she is not married to them. I think pre-marriage, simply changing your mind and wanting to move on is fine because that is the time to decide if it is going to be a long term commitment or not.</p>

615

<p>People should be able to drop out of relationships for any reason at all, including very minor reasons or no reason at all. </p>

<p>That I believe that in no way tells you my person feelings about committment or my actions. </p>

<p>Both partners must be free to leave at any time, for any reason. Anything less than that is a violation of their rights as an individual. That’s not immaturity, in fact, it takes a lot of maturity to fully understand and accept that you own no one, you are entitled to no ones affection. </p>

<p>All we can do in this lifetime is resolve to honor our committments. We have no control, nor should we have any control, over how other people chose to honor theirs and that includes our most intimate partner. </p>

<p>To argue otherwise is to open the door for “punishment” for the one who left.</p>

616

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<p>Why does that change post-marriage? There are built in legal, and perhaps religious, ramifications for ending a marriage but beyond that it’s no one elses business. Efforts to keep marriages together when one person wants out, for whatever reaons, are, at best, misguided and have too often been used as justification for primarily women to endure a life they do not want.</p>

617

<p>sadatthisstory, feelings change, people change! No one, and I mean no one is required to stay in a relationship that makes them unhappy regardless of the reason! Just because someone loved you last week, last month or last year doesn’t mean they must love you forever. It does not take abuse to make someone fall out of love! Good Lord! Grow up! Why would you even want to be with someone who has lost that spark she had for you. It’s sad, mourn the end of the relationship and find a way to move on. Relaese the bitterness! It seems to be ruining your life, or at the very least messing you up.</p>

618

<p>pug…regarding 616…yes, I agree that someone can get out of a marriage for any reason. But with marriage, i think there is a level of commitment to try to work it out as one has supposedly committed for life. They are free to still leave the marriage, of course, if they still choose. But pre-marriage, there is less of a commitment or promise to stay together forever. It is a time to try out a relationship and if that person is not the one, to move on. I don’t feel my daughter has a long term commitment with her boyfriend. She has a commitment DURING the relationship, however long it lasts, to not see anyone else and so on. But she has made no commitment for any length of time. I was bringing this up because sadathisstory brings up a college aged kid and how unless the partner does something that is a deal breaker, is supposed to commit. And I don’t agree with that. A young unmarried person dates someone and may decide to move on as this is not the person they wish to spend a long term commitment with. That is the nature of “dating”. Marriage brings a level of commitment, in my view, and so moving on should not be taken as lightly and attempts to work out differences, etc. should be a commitment before parting ways.</p>

619

<p>I have explicitly told my kids that break-ups are a normal part of the cycle of a relationship until you (hopefully, if desired) find the person to which you are ready to make a life-time commitment. People change, feelings change, new facets of one’s personality and values emerge … especially when one is a young adult. You have a right to break up and your gf or bf has a right to break up with you. Period. </p>

<p>I think another important point is to listen closely to what an abused person is saying or not saying. Yeardley’s uncle said she once shared with him that George was “aggressive.” I wonder if he now wishes that he had followed up on that statement with her… that may have been her way of reaching out, even if it was understated.</p>

620

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<p>No, I’m just reflecting back what you have stated are your own insights. You are the one who brought commitments into this thread. Now you’re saying that re-negotiation is allowed. If you’re allowing re-negotiation, then why do you still insist that it’s significant that we don’t know what commitment she made to this relationship that might have led him to feel as if he had the entitlement to abuse her? </p>

<p>And I resent your implication that I need a reading comprehension course.</p>