Student on Student Lacrosse Murder at UVa

<p>One detail that popped out at me as really strange was that the police confiscated a LETTER that Huegley had apparently written to Love. I mean, who among their generation, writes actual letters these days? Especially a man? It makes me very curious to know what he could have written.</p>

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<p>That is fair… I see this side of the situation too.</p>

<p>I am frustrated, because there were obviously chances to stop this from happening, but no one was willing to step in. And now someone is dead. Sure, it is nice that there is a degree… and the candlelight vigil was powerful and moving… and the facebook groups show support. But none of those bring people back to life.</p>

<p>I’m frustrated because I feel like the compassion and support that is there now, was not there when she was alive, when she could have really used it.</p>

<p>I will say that I am sorry for making people angry, that was not my intent, and I realize I came off kind of harsh. Possibly I was still in “angry response mode” from a thread on the W&M board, and I came here, and just had to post as I was reading because my mind was running… I will make an extra effort to keep things in check in this thread.</p>

<p>As I said in one of my followup posts… the UVA community is full of great people. And it will continue to be full of great people.</p>

<p>Thanks for that link, KandKsmom – that must be the attorney who was mentioned on the other message board. </p>

<p>I don’t know if/when Dean J will post here. </p>

<p>I bet she’s still reading, though. The comment to pass along these posts to UVA was wonderful. This is a good discussion, even if the “conjecture and speculation” may be upsetting to some at UVA.</p>

<p>[url=<a href=“http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/07/AR2010050704895.html?sid=ST2010050704068]washingtonpost.com[/url”>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/07/AR2010050704895.html?sid=ST2010050704068]washingtonpost.com[/url</a>]</p>

<p>“We can argue about gaps in the system, but one constituency very likely knew about Huguely’s behavior: his teammates and friends, the ones who watched him smash up windows and bottles and heard him rant about Love. Why didn’t they tackle him? Why didn’t they turn him in? Undoubtedly, many of the young men on the Virginia lacrosse team are fine human beings. I don’t mean to question their decency. I don’t mean to blame them. But I do mean to ask those who knew of Huguely’s behavior an important question. Why did they not treat Yeardley Love as their teammate, too? Where were her brothers? Why was she not deserving of the same loyalty as George Huguely? She played lacrosse. She wore a Virginia uniform. She was equally a champion. And yet because she played on the women’s team, she seems not to have been accorded the same protection that Huguely was.”</p>

<p>A young woman dead. I wonder if her family would have still wanted the men’s team to play in the NCAA tournament, if more details were known at the time the family was consulted? Did UVA rush to ask them before details would come out?</p>

<p>Oh, I know this isn’t important in the great scheme of things. I just think it’s disrespectful for the men’s team to play in the tournament. I’m looking for karma to play a big part in this year’s tournament…</p>

<p>Well…the pall bearers at her funeral were from the men’s lacrosse team, so I think that the family is not blaming all the team members. And I understand they were consulted before the decision was made to play. I don’t think it’s up to us to question their decision.</p>

<p>I wondered if some of the pallbearers were from the men’s team when I saw the photo of them leaving the church after the funeral. I’m not questioning the family’s decision that they made at the time they made it, just wondering if they would have made the same decision a few days later…</p>

<p>Thinking of Yeardley’s mother today and the hole in her heart that can never be repaired. I hope she can bear this sorrow that no mother should have to bear. Sad that her life with Yeardley was cut way too short. </p>

<p>Thinking of George’s mom today for having to bear this burden, a sense of shame on the part of her child, and the loss of the life with him that she once had and thought she had to look forward to.</p>

<p>*
I think it must be very difficult for athletes to report their teammates. There is so much pressure to be loyal and the consequences of being perceived disloyal are apparently something that most can’t deal with.*</p>

<p>This is likely true. There is a fear of retribution and how the “team” will be affected by the loss of the player. It’s similar to the wife who won’t have her H arrested for abuse because she doesn’t want him to lose his job as a result of the arrest.</p>

<p>Very similar to the sentiments I read in an opinion piece in the paper today, soozievt. </p>

<p>This will be a very difficult day for both of them.</p>

<p>I’ve been watching this thread since the beginning and I am hoping it continues to turn to the positive direction of discussion of the individual and organizational behaviors that caused all of these red flags to be missed – because events like this occur everywhere – colleges, workplaces, high schools. They don’t all end in this type of horrific tragedy, but some do.</p>

<p>All institutions have dark sides – UVA is not unique. You could probably <insert name=“” of=“” school=“”> and this could have happened anywhere. It’s become lurid newstainment because of other factors. I was glad someone brought up the Gettysburg student murder - because it may have been similar - hard to say.</insert></p>

<p>We might begin to learn more about Yeardley in the coming weeks, and what she did and tried to do about her own situation – but where she was organizationally thwarted, or possibly even discouraged from handling things the right way. Or – we may never know because of either the circling of wagons, or guilt of individuals that should have stepped in more strongly. I hope this comes out and is examined in detail. She may have informed her family, I am sure some of her friends knew, they may have encouraged her to take certain actions – and did that happen? Or was she just very private? Was she heading toward a restraining order, did she or others try to get the school to help? And restraining orders don’t help as we know, but at least they are an additional legal record of a major problem. Was he stalking her in recent weeks – and what can the school or law enforcement do about stalking? I have heard anecdotally from other girls on other campuses being stalked that they are terrorized and that they get no help from the schools. She may have personally done everything right in her power to rectify this.</p>

<p>I did not know Yeardley personally. But, I am very familiar with the high school she attended – I probably have 15 female relatives who go currently or have gone there…some are my first degree relatives. The young women, particularly the scholar athletes - would likely be obedient, rule following, and somewhat sheltered. They were so busy in high school studying and playing, they had very, very little time for boys. They’ve likely played lax since age 5. If you don’t play between the ages of 5 and 10 in Baltimore, you won’t be good enough to move ahead. I have been in awe of the accomplishments of the scholar athletes at this school (and the other girls too!). Some could choose Ivy League schools, but they choose UVA…4-5 every year - stellar kids.</p>

<p>Her high school provided guidance on all kinds of things…including deep open thoughtful discussions about good relationships, looking out for one another, abuse of women – you name it, if it was a social issue – they covered it at some point. The high school is a bit old school – if you don’t wear your name tag, you get a detention. If you are disrespectful and called out for it, you’d be encouraged to provide a sincere apology. Some of the media were characterizing the high school as ‘elite’ – it is only somewhat – it has a wide variety of young women that hail from all over the Baltimore metro area. </p>

<p>Yeardley lost her father at age 15…it’s hard to say what advice or strength of response could come from Mom or sister, or if she told them what was going on. Would a father have helped step in strongly and say take legal action? Say to her…move to another apartment for now?</p>

<p>This poor girl was in a microcosm…every where she went, there he was. At a party, at a game, they had mutual friends. Anyone who has gone to a college in a small town, or a small college knows how hard this can be to deal with if you need to make a change in friendships.</p>

<p>Is there a secret UVA sub-code of athlete honor that Yeardley was subject to? Don’t tell? Don’t make a big deal out of this? Why make waves…you’re all about to graduate? Don’t follow the rules of society and common sense…follow our secret rules…</p>

<p>The honor codes and legal infractions may need to be tightly linked. Speeding tickets are one thing…rabid, raging, drunken violence is another. A linkage of these things might have gotten the kid ejected from school – and maybe out of her life. Enforcing this linkage would be a huge burden on colleges and universities. But it would give leverage to the colleges to get bad apples out of their communities. </p>

<p>We know from reading these threads that institutions – once kids are off campus and not in dorms - lose control to the local law enforcement – which could be Barney Fife-like. We know that when kids are on campus, things are “handled” – frequently in a very WRONG way – by errant/inexperienced RAs, poor and ineffective problem escalation, and by campus police who are probably encouraged to hide serious crimes. Girls who are being stalked by mentally ill guys don’t have a lot of options. They probably want to try to lay low and graduate, and then become geographically inaccessible to their stalker.</p>

<p>I was also glad MD Mom brought up the St. Paul’s scandal from 2001. This is the lacrosse culture we know here in our collective community memory. My anecdotal experiences include multiple date rapes of friends by lax players - and being discouraged to tell because families were powerful and would ruin your reputation. Girls also sometimes raise these guys to cult status and compete for their attention. I have a family member who is finally divorced from her former all-american lax star abusive husband. The son’s apple is not falling far from the tree either.</p>

<p>On a positive note…I think we might not be dealing with Barney Fife in Charlottesville. C-ville Police Chief Tim Longo is formerly of the Baltimore City Police Department…and he he appears to be interested in upholding justice and investigating and prosecuting crimes against women…even ones from 1984.</p>

<p>[The</a> letter - Dateline NBC- msnbc.com](<a href=“http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12876396/]The”>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12876396/)</p>

<p>spicegurl–thank you for providing your own personal perspective, it is helpful to hear. your point about Yeardley having been in a microcosm is a poignant one. and I imagine Yeardley to have been a very strong young woman to lose her dad at such a difficult age and yet manage to continue to excel, and move forward in her life. this is a young woman any parent would be proud of. It is so sad to imagine what Yeardley’s mom, sister and family are going through. This family already went through such a sad loss with the death of Yeardley’s father, and this time in their family should have been all about promise, and future and pride is now again all about grief and death. </p>

<p>I just read through your link, and I agree Police Chief Tim Longo seems to be a voice of sincerity in dealing with crimes against women. I hope all colleges are taking notice and thinking seriously about ways they need to address these issues on their campuses.</p>

<p>There is already lots of talk about avoiding another “Andrew Alston” situation in Albemarle County. Convicted as a 3rd year, he spent less than 3 years in jail on a manslaughter conviction. If Huguely’s defense team can get a manslaughter conviction - and that is clearly where they are headed - then he could be back to business as usual in a few years. Anything can happen in Albemarle County.</p>

<p>I don’t see how this would end up with a manslaughter conviction for Hugueley. With all the apparent evidence against Hugueley and with a sympathetic victim, no way a jury would let him off that easy. And why would the DA plea-bargain down to manslaughter, with so much (apparent) evidence?</p>

<p>I certainly <em>hope</em> no DA and no jury would be swayed by the bogus argument that killing someone is pardonable if the murderer gets drunk first… as if somehow getting drunk isn’t the inevitable result of voluntarily drinking.</p>

<p>It’s not the drunk aspect of it that could make it manslaughter. Manslaughter is commonly referred to as crime of passion. There is usually an element of provocation, but provocation does not mean the victim provoked the killer. It can mean the person became so enraged that there was no time for reflection. He can claim that he went to the house to try to get her back with no intention of hurting her. He will argue that she didn’t fear for her life because the door was unlocked. He became enraged, lost control and attacked her. When he left, he didn’t know she was dead and he was so out of his mind with rage that he didn’t even realize how seriously she was hurt. He may say that he didn’t know she was dead until the police told him. Problems for him are taking the computer, not calling 911 and cleaning up afterward. I assume that is why they took the shower curtain and items from the bathroom. </p>

<p>I never practiced in Virginia nor did I ever practice criminal law, but I do not believe they’ll get murder 1 in this case. The prosecution will be lucky to get 2nd degree and the defense wants involuntary manslaughter but will be happy with voluntary. The max sentence for voluntary manslaughter in Virginia, I believe, is 10 years.</p>

<p>There have been many types of voluntary manslaughter. These have not been differentiated here as they are so closely related or indistinguishable that many US jurisdictions do not differentiate between them.[1] The following are some examples of defences which may be raised to mitigate murder to voluntary manslaughter:</p>

<pre><code>* Provocation: A killing which occurs after provocation by an event which would cause a reasonable person to lose self-control.

  • Imperfect self-defense: allowed only in a limited number of jurisdictions in the United States. Self-defence is a complete defence to murder. However, a person who acted in self defence with an honest but unreasonable belief that deadly force was necessary to do so could still be convicted of voluntary manslaughter or deliberate homicide committed without criminal malice. Malice is found if a person killed intentionally and without legal excuse or mitigation.
  • Diminished capacity is a defence which serves to negate the mental state of “malice”. If a jurisdiction recognizes that a person can kill with justification, but also without any evil intent, that jurisdiction is free to define the crime as something less than murder. It is not present in all US jurisdictions. In many, a mental defect, or even mental illness, will not reduce the seriousness of the offence whatsoever. However, if a US state legislature so promulgates, a diminished mental state may be used as a justification for the finding of a lesser crime. This is distinguished from the complete defence of Insanity.
    </code></pre>

<p>(WikiPedia)</p>

<p>Cartera, he allegedly wrote threatening letters and emails to her. That suggests it wasn’t a spur of the moment crime.</p>

<p>Cardinal Fang - all of that will come into play. I’m not arguing that it should be manslaughter. I don’t think it will be first degree. He will be presented by the defense as salvageable - with the means and support of family to turn his life around. He will look like a completely different man in the court room - short hair, slimmed down, well dressed, clear eyed and, no doubt, contrite. His past behavior doesn’t come in without a fight. The defense may ask for a change of venue but that can always be risky - as we saw in the OJ trial. That was one of worst decisions the prosecution made in that case.</p>

<p>So if you beat your girlfriend to death, after previously attacking her and after sending her threatening messages, but you’re rich and your family can afford a good lawyer, you’re “salvageable” and you get off with ten years?</p>

<p>Won’t his other acts of aggression toward Yeardley come into play? He alledgedy wrote emails and texts threating to kill her. She was locked in her room and he kicked in the door to get to her. According to his affidavit he beat her head against the wall for 3 minutes. Have you seen pictures of these two together? She looks like a mouse next to him.</p>

<p>How about his other bad acts like beating up a sleeping teammate who walked Yeardley home and gave her a kiss goodnight? Isn’t this relevent to his obsession with her? It all shows a pattern and how he got to the point of killing her.</p>

<p>I have heard people saying George is going to get an “OJ defence”, and I believed it, but that was before I read about Alston. Now I’m worried George’s big money family are going to get him off.</p>

<p>We have seen that you can kill your brother and get away with it if your parents are well-connected. Stuff happens. I do not think that this will be first degree murder. It might even be a plea-bargain. It depends on the local prosecutors and courts.</p>