Student on Student Lacrosse Murder at UVa

<p>The fact that people violate restraining orders, and that they are not 100% effective in protecting against harassment or even harm, does not mean that they are useless. In many cases – probably the vast majority of cases – restraining orders change the behavior of the person against whom they are issued, and also change the response of the police if they are called. </p>

<p>There is a chorus of posts above essentially saying that restraining orders aren’t perfect. I hope that does not make anyone think that they are a bad idea. They aren’t perfect, and women who get them need to take other steps to protect themselves as well – starting with limiting their contact with the harasser as much as they possibly can. But they are an important, valuable tool. It’s way too sad to speculate whether a restraining order might have made a difference in this case, but I wouldn’t want to leave that option untried in any future situation.</p>

<p>JHS, if I could “like” your post I would.</p>

<p>JHS, I agree with you about restraining orders. It will not stop a killer necessarily, but the vast majority of domestic abuse cases don’t involve murder and so the restraining order is a legal device that can be beneficial and also help with police response and court outcomes if it is violated.</p>

<p>JHS - I agree. I never meant to imply that one should not seek a restraining order.</p>

<p>Thanks for saying that, JHS. </p>

<p>Personally, I think this law needs to be changed. Would a restraining order have saved YL’s life? I don’t know. It might have, however. Several news outlets, including CBS, are now reporting that there was escalating violence by GH against YL in the days leading up to her death. Maybe if some action had been taken against him when he committed one of the earlier acts it would have kept the acts from escalating. Again, I don’t know. </p>

<p>But it does seem to me that Virginia needs to change the law and give romantic partners who do not live together the same protections as those given to those who do live together. And it needs to change its definition of stalking as well.</p>

<p>Agree that is is unbelievable that the same laws to protect spouses are not in place for those in relationships who are not married, when it comes to domestic abuse and restraining orders.</p>

<p>Why is this thread about spotting a murderer by his background or his appearance?</p>

<p>Oh wait, because clearly spotting the trouble signs has nothing to do with FRIENDS who stay quiet when they shouldn’t.</p>

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<p>I don’t think people smile for mugshots.</p>

<p>Yes, soozie, you’re right. Living here, whenever I see the name Peterson, I always assume Drew, even though the OP wrote Scott. But yes, I think Drew looks creepy. </p>

<p>And yes, their mug shots are always icky, but I’ve seen lots of video. That’s what I was referring to.</p>

<p>[Schools</a> Ignoring Student Violence Warning Signs? - The Early Show - CBS News](<a href=“http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/05/13/earlyshow/main6479853.shtml]Schools”>http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/05/13/earlyshow/main6479853.shtml)</p>

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<p>Can someone please enlighten me as to what’s involved in getting a restraining order. I always assumed that because it’s a court-related event, it would take days if not weeks to get it issued.</p>

<p>This would be a nightmare for schools to enforce. The only way I could see it possibly working would be with some kind of proximity detector. The only reasonable way to provide protection would be with a bodyguard or a weapon and both would be difficult on a college campus.</p>

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I have very limited first-hand knowledge, but I think you can get a temporary restraining order pretty quickly and then there is a court date a few weeks later for a more thorough determination of whether the RO is truly warranted.</p>

<p>*
Several news outlets, including CBS, are now reporting that there was escalating violence by GH against YL in the days leading up to her death. *</p>

<p>That means that either friends were aware of this or emails indicated such. Do we know what the source of this info is?</p>

<p>*This would be a nightmare for schools to enforce. The only way I could see it possibly working would be with some kind of proximity detector. The only reasonable way to provide protection would be with a bodyguard or a weapon and both would be difficult on a college campus. *</p>

<p>Exactly. IF there had been one, it would be hard to determine if George intentionally was trying to be near her, or if he accidentally came upon her on campus. He certainly would have known her class schedule that semester. They may have even had a class together (altho no one has said so.)</p>

<p>Robert Chambers (the Preppy Murderer) worked in my office one summer. He got the job through his Upper East Side connections. His eyes were like ice, even back then.</p>

<p>NOBODY SHOULD CONSIDER THIS LEGAL ADVICE. </p>

<p>First, Teri, what is required to get an order of protection varies from state to state. In at least some states, you can get a temporary order ex parte–meaning without the alleged abuser being notified. You do have to go before a judge who will ask questions. This happens the same day you go to court in most cases. If you sound at all legit, i.e., not insane, the judge signs the order. In NYC, the cops serve it on the alleged abuser. The order doesn’t take effect until the alleged abuser is served. If the victim has given enough info–abuser works here, lives here, etc., that happens pretty quickly. </p>

<p>In NY, both family court and criminal court issue them. My understanding is that it’s easier to get one from family court. Dating someone is sufficient to enable you to go to family court. There’s no criminal charge involved. If you claim someone else is bothering you, e.g., your landlord or your neighbor who dislikes your dog, then you have to go to criminal court, where it is harder to get an order.</p>

<p>Im many states there is a hearing to determine whether the order should be left in effect and whether it should be modified. Again, here in NYC, most family court judges will leave them in effect, though some modifications may be allowed. </p>

<p>One situation in which protective orders are effective is that in which the abused person wants to move out to a safe location. You’ve got time to get out of Dodge–to pack up your stuff and have it loaded into a U-Haul or moving van. Some judges will include other people in the order. The alleged abuser can’t contact the alleged victim’s roommate, relatives, or employer, for example. (So, if the abused has gotten a new job, the abuser can’t legally show up at her old place of work and ask folks if they know where she is working now.) They too can call the cops and have him arrested if he shows up if they are covered by the protective order. </p>

<p>Second, IMO, protective orders can help even on college campuses. A student abuser can be prohibited from emailing, texting, calling, etc. the alleged abused. He can be prohibited from entering her apartment building or dorm or sorority house. He can be prohibited from entering the premises of any work-study job she has. He can be told he can’t go within 100 yards of her. In GH’s case, he might have been ordered to stay away from the lacrosse field when the women’s team was practicing or playing. (He could ask the judge to modify the order if they were in the same class or in some other special circumstances. However, these would probably be circumstances in which OTHER PEOPLE WOULD BE PRESENT. ) </p>

<p>I haven’t seen any reports that said GH threatened YL in a classroom. Each event seems to have happened when he had been drinking heavily. Maybe if there had been a restraining order and GH said–as he reportedly did–that he was going to YL’s apartment to get her back, one of his buddies would have said “You know you don’t want to do that George; you’ll end up in jail for violating the order” and at least TRIED to talk him out of it. Maybe someone would have even picked up the phone and alerted the cops, so that they could have picked him up the moment he walked into YL’s apartment building.</p>

<p>Yes, lots of speculation, I admit. However, one thing is sure–IF A PROTECTIVE ORDER HAD BEEN IN EFFECT the UVa and Charlottesville cops would have been keeping an eye on GH. At least two sources say that there was an altercation at the Boylan Heights burger bar between YL and GH. One source says it was earlier the same night she died. Other sources say it was Saturday night. In either case, if someone had called the cops and there was a PO, GH would have been picked up and would not have spent all day Sunday drinking, as the press reports say he did.</p>

<p>I’m not saying a PO would have saved YL’s life–just that POs should be available as an option that might help.</p>

<p>*Maybe if there had been a restraining order and GH said–as he reportedly did–that he was going to YL’s apartment to get her back, one of his buddies would have said “You know you don’t want to do that George; you’ll end up in jail for violating the order” and at least TRIED to talk him out of it. *</p>

<p>That’s only if he told his friends about the restraining order. If there had been a RO, he would likely have not told anyone. Of course, Yeardley and friends could have told people, but only if Yeardley shared the info.</p>

<p>BTW…I can’t help but think that if Yeardley had tried to get a restraining order, Geo’s daddy’s money would have come in with lawyers fighting such an order because of how it might have negatively affected his team status.</p>

<p>It’s possible that if Yeardley had taken out a restraining order on GH, her friends would have been on higher alert and less likely to stick their heads in the sand. I wonder if Yeardley might not have felt that she would be ostracized for “making a big deal” out of it if she had though. There is a lot of social pressure (even, or especially from, other girls) to “not make a scene”. Girls need to get angry and stop blaming themselves!</p>

<p>On the subject of colleges supporting girls who report physical abuse, it’s been my experience that they can be very lame indeed. A lot of times it ends up in “he said, she said” situations and they claim to have their hands tied. Maybe. Seems to me that they’re doing the same thing that friends who look away do – they’re afraid to take a stand.</p>

<p>As I said before, it’s really sad and pointless to speculate that something as simple as a restraining order would have saved two lives here. Maybe yes, maybe no.</p>

<p>Maybe if George’s daddy’s money and lawyers had come into play, that would have been a positive thing. Perhaps they could have beaten back the restraining order – although that’s not so easy in the places I’ve lived, which don’t include Virginia. But in the process they would have become thoroughly familiar with the conduct that formed the basis for the order in the first place, and the parents might well have done something to address that, too. Nobody wants their son labeled an abuser, but nobody wants their son to BE an abuser either, or to wind up in prison for, at a bare minimum, years and years. </p>

<p>If it had been my son, I would have fought the order, and told him in no uncertain terms that if he so much as looked at the girl he would be withdrawing from the university immediately. And I would put in place some mechanism to ensure that I would find out about it if he did. Also, no more alcohol.</p>