Student seeking parental advice about work-related issues

Parent Cafe
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<p>I hope that it is okay to post about this here – I’m hoping I might be able to get a bit of guidance on difficulties I’ve recently encountered with a job that is (relatively) new to me.</p>

<p>As a quick summary, I am 22 years old, but often get mistaken for being much younger. Most people seem to assume I am 15 or 16, and this does not normally bother me. What does make it somewhat awkward, however, is that I finished my undergraduate work a few years earlier than most, and began working full-time in my field immediately after graduating in early 2009.</p>

<p>At my first job, I experienced frequent comments about my age (not negative, necessarily, but a lot of references to being their “little prodigy” and such). It didn’t seem to interfere with my work much at first, but, as time went on, I started to take on more responsibilities, and it seemed to become a bigger issue when people seemed to disregard my opinions, ideas, etc.</p>

<p>At the time of my resignation last December, I was managing several large research databases; coordinating data collection, entry, etc; and the sole provider of technical support for issues experienced by our staff at six sites in our region. I worked very long hours (50-60+ hours/week) and observed several issues that I believed to be critically important. All of these concerns seemed to be dismissed when I brought them up, with comments that I was just “too young to understand” and such.</p>

<p>I was so rattled by that experience that I stopped working professionally for almost all of 2011, and was not entirely sure that I would ever even work again. To save money, I moved back in with my parents, and sold some of my belongings on Craig’s List. I spent much of the past year reading and researching subjects I’m interested in, working on electronics projects, and teaching myself new programming languages. I completed a few small web design projects, volunteered in a research lab, and took a 3-month long cross-country trip this summer, but had very little structure in my life. Finally, in November the lack of structure started to really get to me, and I decided to apply for an IT position at my alma mater. I didn’t really expect anything to come from it, but hoped that it would work out, as it appeared to be an easy job with awesome benefits (free access to electronic journals!!).</p>

<p>Somehow, I managed to get the job offer, and I started working in my new position about six weeks ago. To say I have enjoyed it would be an understatement. The job is much more intellectually stimulating than I expected it would be, my supervisor and HR manager are fantastic, and I love the workplace culture (research-oriented with a focus on innovation, creativity, etc.). I feel like I’m learning a ton, and can’t believe how quickly time seems to pass when I am working there (probably because I’m having fun!).</p>

<p>The only potential issue I have noticed so far is, once again, my age. I think that the consultative nature of my new job (where I’m constantly asked about my opinions, advice, etc.) is the main factor here and my younger-than-expected appearance could be causing issues? I feel like I can see skepticism in the faces of many people I have met so far, and I am self-conscious about that. I have been honestly surprised how many have asked about my age directly and have been tempted to ask them how old they are in return, but have held my tongue so far.</p>

<p>Even more significant than the awkwardness though are the interactions I’ve had recently with my workgroup. The first few weeks, I felt really respected – like my ideas were worth listening to, my input was valued, etc. But, the other new hire started a few weeks after I did, and I feel like things have really gone downhill for me since then. She certainly has more professional experience than I do in this field and my gut feeling is that she might be upset we were hired at the same level/position. So far, I feel like she has been very dismissive of my ideas, experience, opinions, etc. Since I don’t really have the confidence to defend myself, I often just agree that I’m probably wrong. What concerns me is that we have spent a lot of time investigating issues recently, only to find out that I actually was right initially for several of them, and this attitude of me not being right seems persistent, regardless.</p>

<p>I feel very upset with myself for allowing this to bother me so much. I am extremely sensitive, in general, and am almost certainly over-reacting, but I feel like there have been frequent comments from her that have really just rubbed me the wrong way. I don’t know how to deal with that, I guess?</p>

<p>The other day, I offered to build a quick database for something simple and she asked “Have you ever actually built a database? Like, sat down and planned it all out, and then built from scratch? I learned all about databases in an accounting class last year, so think it might be better if I did this one…” (Never mind the fact that my previous job involved building and maintaining multiple large-scale research databases, web-based databases for content management systems, etc.). Or, if I ask for her help on something, I feel like she makes a big deal out of it by saying things like “anon1989 asked me to help her with this, so I figured it would be really simple and easy to fix” (even though that hasn’t been the case, so far). And even her help is so over-simplified that I feel like she doesn’t expect me to understand any more than a little kid might.</p>

<p>After writing this all out, I’m realizing now that it must seem very petty. It’s only been a few weeks, and I’m hopeful things will settle down as we get more comfortable working with each other… But, at the same time, I’m worried that if this is truly age-related than it likely won’t get better? We’ll always be a few decades apart in age no matter how long we work together, so it seems like I would have to focus on changing something other than my age, like my confidence, credibility, etc.? Or, maybe I just need to find a way to be less over-sensitive? I am not really sure how best to handle this…</p>

<p>Summary: Sorry this got so long! I am just hoping for ideas about how I can stop people from focusing so much on my age/appearance at work, I think. I guess I am just hopeful there is something I can do to gain more credibility and/or respect, so that people don’t seem to automatically assume I am “too young” to understand and/or be right about some things?</p>

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<p>It is not petty (although in 25 years you will be thrilled that you look younger). I too graduated early…oh the stories I could tell!</p>

<p>Get yourself the the highest end beauty shop in your vicinity. Explain the issue and have a more mature hairstyle. (You would be amazed how many women wear the same style that they wore at sixteen.</p>

<p>Then go to Vogue magazine or any high end magazine and do research on sophisticated clothing. You don’t have to go to Bergdorf’s to get the dresses/slacks/jackets. You don’t, and shouldn’t, wear a costume. But looking more mature will help.</p>

<p>Please note: I do NOT mean be dowdy, blah, in ugly colors.</p>

<p>I also remember that a steely stare, sans nasty language, helped to silence those, “Oh, little sweetheart…” comments.</p>

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<p>Are you a guy or a young lady, OP? Ellebud’s advice on more professional looks still stands even if you are a guy.</p>

<p>Oops, I noticed you used “her”, so you are a lady. Sorry for not reading carefully.</p>

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<p>Have someone neutral listen to the way you speak. Sometimes young people end sentences by letting their voice rise like a question. Do you add the word “like” to your sentences or speak quietly or quickly? Some of these things can make you seem younger. If this might be an issue, consider joining Toastmasters. They do an excellent job polishing your presentation skills.</p>

<p>Also, if you are a woman, do you wear makeup? I know not everyone likes makeup, but it makes you look older and more polished.</p>

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<p>^ ^</p>

<p>IMO, a large part of it is also your self-admitted tendency to “not stand for yourself” and go along with the older colleague’s assessment that you’re wrong even when you’re right. </p>

<p>IME, that’s a great way to lose respect and be regarded as a doormat whose opinions, experiences, and talents are summarily dismissed by others…much more so than one’s actual/perceived age. Saw this in several undergrad classes and in the working world. </p>

<p>I myself am often mistaken as a fresh college graduate or sometimes even a junior/senior in college…even though I’m actually around a decade older than that so I’ve experienced some of that. One thing which helped is not only exuding confidence with older colleagues/supervisors…but also knowing how to stand one’s ground in a respectful manner when necessary. </p>

<p>I’ll admit this is easier for me to do considering my inclination to be a gadfly and double-down on those exerting mindless entitled attitudes like the ones held by your older colleague.</p>

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<p>Definitely dress “older”. Dress like your boss’s boss. If a guy, buy your stuff at Brooks Brothers, for example. If most of the young 'uns in your department wear jeans, wear khakis. If they wear short sleeves, wear long.</p>

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<p>Wow, thank you for the very quick and helpful advice! </p>

<p>I think I definitely will schedule an appointment for a haircut very soon. I have a great hairstylist (at a pretty trendy salon downtown) who has been cutting my hair for a few years now, but tried to avoid getting haircuts too often last year, since I wasn’t sure about things financially. I did get my hair cut very short last April, but have not done anything since then. I got a lot of compliments both when it was short and grown-out, but it is definitely sort of shaggy now. Most days, I wear it in a simple ponytail, which is, more or less, the way I’ve worn it since I was about 12. Could definitely be part of the problem! </p>

<p>I am hesitant about the makeup, but might just need to get over it? I tend to worry a lot about becoming dependent on things, and I think that, as weird as it sounds, I’m worried about becoming “dependent on makeup.” I worry that if I were to start wearing it, it would be a real commitment, and that if I decided to skip it sometime, I would have to answer questions from people about why I looked unwell, different, tired, etc. Even if comments from others were not an issue, I guess I worry that I, personally, would feel even more insecure about my looks? </p>

<p>I think I also have been hesitant to wear nicer clothes, makeup, etc. because I feel incredibly self-conscious about those sorts of things, in general. I worry I wouldn’t do it correctly and people would notice – maybe they wouldn’t say anything directly, but I worry they would sort of be humored by my attempts, and wonder why I was even trying. I think it feels safer to me to just not even try at all. I just pretend that it doesn’t bother me, that I don’t care about how I look, and that appearance shouldn’t matter because I should have more important things to focus on. </p>

<p>I definitely do speak quickly. I started taking a stimulant last year, which has helped to calm me down a little and improved my speech, but it has not been working as well recently. I had a bad reaction (brain swelling) in response to an antibiotic a few months ago and it seemed to really change the affect that the stimulant has had on me, among other things. I am more scattered, energetic, anxious, etc. and that could also be affecting others’ opinions of my maturity, competency, etc., I suppose. I have been looking for a neurologist recently to help me sort things out medication-wise, but did not think about something like Toastmasters. It would be great if the practice there could help me to be more articulate, calm, confident, etc.</p>

<p>Thanks again for the great suggestions! Sorry also that my original post was a bit ambiguous – I am a female :)</p>

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<p>^ ^ </p>

<p>I’d try developing and practicing your ability to exude confidence and standing your ground…especially not admitting you’re wrong when you’re not before you change your external appearance. </p>

<p>That will get you much further in the long-term than merely changing your external appearance.</p>

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<p>Looks like I cross posted with a few other posters – sorry about that!</p>

<p>I tend to think a huge part of this could be confidence-related too. I worried a lot about my lack of experience in this field when I was offered the job. I was afraid that I had somehow misrepresented my abilities, been too confident during the interviews, etc. After I started working, I started to gain back a bit of my confidence. I realized that I wasn’t expected to know everything, I was capable of filling in gaps in my knowledge when necessary (I am pretty adept at teaching myself new technologies and concepts), and I had some strengths that others did not (several years of research experience, lots of genuine curiosity and enthusiasm). </p>

<p>I was feeling good about things until I started working more with my new colleague. I feel completely intimidated at this point and am not sure how to build my confidence back up. I worry so much that I’m not using the correct terminology, and/or will just generally say something stupid in her presence, because I know, if I do, then she will overemphasize that by lecturing me at length about it. I have been studying at home and working long hours, so that I can feel a bit more confident about things again, but I know that I will not be able to replace 15-20 years of experience in a short time period of self-study.</p>

<p>I don’t even know how much of my anxiety is rational at this point though. I feel like if I look at it objectively, I’ve probably been right about things more often than she has, at this point, so it doesn’t make sense for me to keep assuming she will always be right and I’ll always be wrong. It feels that way to me, but reality is probably that we will probably both be right or wrong about various things, and it doesn’t matter too much if the issue gets solved.</p>

<p>I just wish I was better at dealing with this!</p>

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<p>Is there anything I could do specifically, cobrat, that you think might help me to be more confident? I’ve been focusing on learning more content-wise, but maybe I should instead be focusing on strategies as far as improving communication, confidence, etc.?</p>

<p>I was horrible at communicating with people effectively for most of my life. Significant language delay in early childhood, speech therapy all through elementary school, and very shy in high school and college. Finally became better about it in my previous job – possibly even a bit too stubborn as far as arguing my point (very hard not to do this, if I knew was right). Stimulant medications helped a ton for me to balance my communications with others (so I wasn’t just blabbering on about what I was interested in, stayed engaged in conversations with them, etc.). </p>

<p>But, it doesn’t seem to be working anymore. I feel like I get nervous when I’m met with her skepticism, I end up rambling on about things because I’m nervous, and I eventually end up just sort of ending the conversation awkwardly with “I guess you’re right. Sorry!”</p>

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<p>Anon, it looks like you need to keep an eye on this other girl at work. She certainly seems to be on the attack, and may be trying to prop herself up by putting you down. There are definitely people like this in every workplace, who are insecure and probably nervous about other people’s capabilities and ideas. It is ridiculous for her to say things like

. </p>

<p>And I have encountered this type of scenario too, where someone will LOUDLY announce that they are helping someone else.

. You need to be careful around her, because if she is like this to your face, she could be talking about you behind your back, about how much SHE is helping YOU.</p>

<p>Do you work as a team or each independently? Stop apologizing to her, she does not sound like she’s up to any good. AND, you need to speak up and sound more confident and self-assured. Rehearse and role-play these conversations at home.</p>

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<p>Anon, I am an adult but I have a colleague who sounds like your problem person. When I am in meetings with her, before hand I remind myself to pause before responding to/reacting to anything she says. Sometimes, if she challenges something I’ve said, I’ll pause, wait a moment, then respond calmly reasserting whatever I said to provoke her, but offer to provide additional information/do additional research if necessary.</p>

<p>I also have always looked young for my age, although now that I’m middle age it doesn’t bother me as much!</p>

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<p>The Toastmasters suggestion is a good one you may want to seriously consider. Other options are having trusted friends/parents/etc act as people to practice debate/public speaking abilities and to encourage you to STAND YOUR GROUND. </p>

<p>While I had no problems with standing my ground in classroom and workplace settings…the gadfly aspect of my personality does admittedly help here, I did have confidence issues with public speaking…especially giving lectures to a large group of people. I hated in-class presentations and the first ones I did were dreadful…especially the one where I was giving a report in front of 300+ students at a summer stats course on how governments manipulate the use of statistics to fit their agendas. </p>

<p>One way I got over those fears was to take a chance and participate in a rock n’roll(or any musical genre you like) karaoke night at a bar with an actual live backing band. </p>

<p>Doing that a few times not only built up my confidence in performing in front of 50+ random people…it was a critical factor in allowing me to substitute teach two sections of a community college history course for a friend who had a family issue to attend to. Each of the two sections was an hour each and had 50-70 students. </p>

<p>Ended up pulling it off without any apparent mishaps, a few students from each class came up to shake my hand, and according to the friend…his students apparently liked my lecturing/discussion style. </p>

<p>Another thing is that while it is ok to feel insecure or lacking in confidence in something and to try to improve oneself to minimize those factors…one shouldn’t reveal those emotions to anyone outside of those trusted friends/parents/relatives. Those are some of the emotions I try to hide as best as I can in the work/classroom environments. </p>

<p>One should certainly never reveal it to those who are overly critical and have entitled attitudes like that colleague. Not only is that detrimental to you and will make you more vulnerable to their attack…it is also, to be quite frank, none of their damned business. </p>

<p>The idea is to figure out how to modulate your communication style/mannerisms so you’re somewhere in between exuding someone who’s excessively apologetic and lacking confidence and one loudly exuding an arrogant “F%^k you!” attitude to everyone. </p>

<p>It is something we’ve all had to figure out throughout our lives according to the needs/requirements of different areas of our lives. You’re not alone. :)</p>

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I think you also need to try to examine how you come across to the others. Sometimes the young newbie comes across as being arrogant and not respecting the experience or wisdom of people who have been doing the same job a lot longer. Even if you are not aware of how you sound, the other person may find you kind of an upstart. Particularly if you smirk or gloat to yourself when you end up “right” and she is “wrong”. </p>

<p>Try to review some of the occurences as an objective observer might see them.</p>

<p>Agree with the need to adopt a more mature and polished look - gradually, not overnight.</p>

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<p>Thanks again for the continued replies!</p>

<p>I share an office with the other girl at work, and we have worked together a bit (when I was helping her get set-up at first), but, for the most part, we have been working independently on similar issues. I hope it will get to a point where we’re both able to ask the other for advice/input if stuck, but I’m a little shy about that right now (and I think she is too, to be honest).</p>

<p>We each are working on larger-scale individual projects too – I think she’s working with a few people to organize the equipment inventory, and I’ve been working with the web dev group and a strategic planning group to develop/test/refine new online tools. </p>

<p>I am guessing that as time goes on, she will end up with the majority of the routine, detail-oriented assignments (ordering, configuring, and installing new hardware, software, peripherals) and I will end up with more of the less-routine, analytic stuff (troubleshooting, process improvement and automation, web dev). Just a guess based on our strengths and interests though… we’re both still pretty new!</p>

<p>I think she really is a nice person, but just a bit nervous about how things will work out. I know already that she is bothered by some of the things I do too (working too much, taking classes, being sort of scattered), so maybe that is part of why she is being a bit aggressive too?</p>

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<p>I’m not sure that’s the case judging by the OP’s writing style and choice of words. If anything, she’s reminding me of some undergrads I’ve seen at several other universities who were so lacking in confidence that they were easily intimidated into silence by more confident extroverted students. </p>

<p>Moreover, it has been my experience that just as often as there’s a young newbie being an “upstart”…there’s also older colleagues/supervisors who are projecting/imagining it because they are exhibiting a variant of “get off my lawnism” or a variant of “I’m always more experienced/correct/better than you because I’ve existed longer than you”…especially when they are wrong or fear being shown up precisely because the younger colleague does best them in all those areas.</p>

<p>Just as there are children, adolescents, and young adults much more mature/experienced/knowledgeable than their years would indicate…there are also plenty of older adults/seniors who are deficient in all of those areas for one reason or another. </p>

<p>It is the latter who tends to “imagine” a younger colleague being a “young arrogant upstart”.</p>

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<p>While your older colleague may be feeling those things…they are her problems to deal with…not yours. Especially when she seems to want to use older age as a cudgel against you. </p>

<p>You’ve got enough on your plate…</p>

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<p>I can’t imagine ever having the confidence to be up on stage for karaoke or a rock and roll band, but maybe I can work up to it :slight_smile: </p>

<p>Even though I am pretty shy, I really enjoy getting to deliver presentations to an audience. The opportunity to plan it all out ahead of time and practice as much as I need to seems to make all the difference to me, and I feel like I get a bit of an adrenaline rush from it.</p>

<p>The impromptu, unscripted speaking is what I really struggle with though. I feel like a gigantic, bumbling idiot most of the time. I just can’t seem to balance the speaking and listening required for naturally-paced, relaxed and balanced conversations. I think it could be related to some auditory processing deficits because I also can not seem to remember anything people tell me verbally (if I don’t write it down). But, obviously, writing everything down and reading it back won’t help my conversational skills, so maybe I just need to keep practicing or seek out some other strategies…</p>

<p>I can understand that it would annoy people if I were truly gloating or smirking about being “right” about things, but I really don’t think I am that way, if I consider it objectively. </p>

<p>The most recent (semi-mundane) example I can think of is an issue we had with a copier yesterday. Lots of doctors were complaining, and everybody was working to get it fixed. I asked right away if it could be related to the SSL exception and my boss seemed to consider it, but my colleague said right away that it couldn’t possibly be it because it was an authentication issue and not a connectivity issue, in a sort of condescending tone. We spent all day trying to test other ideas, and, finally my boss emailed to check about the SSL exception in the afternoon. Once we renewed it, the printer was back in service, and I don’t think that I smirked or gloated, but did say “Oh, cool!” when I saw that it worked.</p>

<p>I do feel that I can have a bit too many ideas sometimes, and purposefully tried not to say too much the first few weeks, so that I didn’t seem like some new person waltzing into the place with the idea that she would change it all to work best for her. I ended up really regretting that decision later though, after I decided to wait on proposing a few ideas I had during a meeting I was really enjoying. I ended up not getting to attend the next one, and then at the one after that, I finally felt comfortable enough to bring it up when the time was right, and the ideas seemed to go over really well. I felt bad that I hadn’t said anything earlier and had kept to myself for weeks…</p>

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<p>What you may want to try to do is not to continue with your conversation with her when you don’t agree with her or when you feel like you are getting upset. You could say to her, “Thank you for your suggestion, I will think about it.” Walk away from her, go back to your desk and think about what she has said. Once you know what you want to say to her, then go back to her or send her a follow-up email. The main thing is to try to stay calm no matter what.</p>

<p>If you don’t mind me saying so, I think your “immaturity” is showing through by feeling that people must respect you and think you are always right. I am 50 something with 30 years of work experience, and people still questioning me sometimes. It is what happens at work, everyone is going to have their own opinion on how something should be done, you may not agree with them, but you need to listen to what they have to say. If you are able to work with others (by calmly exchanging ideas with them), and not get flustered when other people disagree with you, then maybe people would think you are older too.</p>

<p>I also agree with other people’s suggestion about dressing older, more mature hair cut and makeup. I spend 5 minutes on my makeup every morning. I have a haircut which is easy to take of, but it is very professional. Go to a department store makeup counter, have someone show you how to apply makeup. For your age, if you have nice skin, less is more, just a bit of eye liner, blush and light lipsticks.</p>

<p>You sound like a smart person, don’t give up, it sounds like a good job for you.</p>

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<p>Are you working with a professional therapist/life coach to work on strategies to minimize and/or work around those auditory processing issues? If not, that is something you may also want to consider.</p>

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I don’t mind your comment, but am a bit confused about it. Can you help me understand what I wrote to make you think that I feel that way? I think that it is a bit illogical to think that one person will always be right about things, and it’s that attitude specifically that bothers me about the coworker. I feel like she has more experience, and I respect that, but I also feel like I have some experience that she does not (and vice versa), so it’s possible for me to be right about certain things too. I guess I just feel like I’d like it to feel a bit more equal – maybe a mutual understanding that we’re both competent, smart people with different experience and skills, and neither of us should always be assumed to be right. </p>

<p>I do think I need to be a bit better about stopping myself from rambling. One of the things I am not very good at is impulse control (i.e. blurting things out in less than tactful ways, being overly emotional/immature, etc.), and I do need to work on it. It’s another one of the things that the stimulant used to really help me with (not so much anymore)…</p>

<p>I haven’t sought out help specifically for the potential auditory processing issues yet, but have been considering it. I did have about 3 years of weekly therapy for an eating disorder, anxiety, and depression, but stopped last year. Saw a few more psychiatrists in an attempt to sort out things diagnostically (i.e. therapist claims I have Asperger’s/HFA, but since social and sensory deficits disappear with stimulants all psychs have said ADHD instead). My PCP is wonderful (one of the few people who encourages me to ask questions!), but requiring I see a psych for any psychotropic meds. So, I’ve got a referral to a behavioral neurologist, and am hopeful she might help clear up diagnostic confusion, or at least have treatment recommendations as far as reversing the neuro. issues from the antibiotic reaction, impulsivity, auditory processing, etc. Just trying to be patient while all the paperwork works its way through the system!</p>

<p>Part of the issue I’ve had with finding doctors to work with recently is that I do ask a lot of questions. I don’t take advice and/or direction blindly very well at all, and so if I don’t understand things, I usually will try to find the answer myself or ask them directly. Some professionals (my PCP, nutritionist, sports med. doc, etc.) seem to really like that I’m curious and others (psychiatrists, mainly, in my experience) seem to hate it. They seem to think I’m not respecting their experience, knowledge, etc., but I often do respect them a lot. I just am curious too, and want to understand things. It’s possible that maybe my colleague is more like the doctors that would rather I follow her without questions (because she has more experience)?</p>