Student seeking parental advice about work-related issues

[HImom]

<p>From what you’re written, it sounds like your newly hired colleague does not have much actual experience. It sounds like she’s trying to apply things like databases from what she learned in class rather than that she has signficicantly more experience than you.</p>

<p>Agree with the haircut and dressing to look more mature. My niece is an attorney in a labor law firm. She can easily pass for a 12-year-old when she dresses casually (like for family gatherings) but she exudes confidence and dresses very professionally for work, including a stylish haircut, subtle makeup and smart, fashionable outfits. She is quiet and thoughtful, chosing her words carefully and speaks with conviction as appropriate. For quite a while she was the very youngest attorney in her firm but has a lot of major clients because she is greatly respected for her great work. My D has a similar issue–she really can easily pass as 12 years old (she just turned 22), but does project a great deal of confidence and can dress to look older and more mature, including light makeup that is barely detectable. So far, she has not complained of problems getting people to take her seriously.</p>

<p>It might be worthwhile considering taking a speech or drama course in improvisionation. Toastmasters is another way to get great public speaking experience and meet some very nice folks.</p>

<p>It is not unreasonable to prefer doctors who will answer questions and not be offended when you are trying to understand your condition(s) and treatment options rather than just accepting what the professional says “because s/he said so.” I personally prefer professionals that work WITH me rather than pontificating AT me; it takes a while to find the right team, but is worth it, IMHO.</p>

<p>Some people feel threatened when others ask questions, especially if they don’t have the answers or the tone may suggest that the questioner doesn’t trust the proposed action or course of action.</p>

<p>I agree that you should take your time in responding to the new hire and NOT respond emotionally. It is perfectly OK to say, “Hmmm, let me think about your suggestion/idea and get back to you.”</p>

<p>Good luck sorting this out!</p>

[cobrat]

<p>

@Himom

From what you’re written, it sounds like your newly hired colleague does not have much actual experience. It sounds like she’s trying to apply things like databases from what she learned in class rather than that she has signficicantly more experience than you.

</p>

<p>That’s what it sounded like to me too. Good point. </p>

<p>One additional possible reason for her acting the way she has is the real/imagined fear that you may be smart/perceptive enough to find out all of her shortcomings/inadequate experience which proves she’s mostly/completely unqualified for her position. </p>

<p>This fear isn’t as far-fetched as it sounds from one experience I had in one of my first jobs out of college as the youngest person in an IT group. Had a newly hired older foreign co-worker who was hired and fired within the week because a few other colleagues and I chanced upon a discovery which revealed he was completely unqualified for the position for which he was hired. Turns out he lied about everything on his resume.</p>

[MommaJ]

<p>I don’t disagree with any of the advice to adopt a more professional appearance (the ponytail must go!), but I think you have more work to do than that. If a negative work experience resulted in your abandoning the workplace for an entire year, I think you have some serious issues to work on that go beyond ADHD or auditory processing disorder. You seem to have a very high level of anxiety (your irrational worries about makeup and clothing are indicative of this, and make me wonder if your assessments of your workplace and colleagues are valid). Are you currently on meds for anxiety? Have you considered cognitive behavioral therapy, which is time-limited and can effectively target specific attitudes and behaviors that are problematic? I’m also guessing you have a spectrum disorder like non-verbal learning disability. The latter impedes effective social interaction and, when coupled with ADHD, can be truly toxic. My D has both NVLD and ADHD. When she was younger we used to say that her NVLD put the wrong words in her head, and the impulsivity aspect of her ADHD (which is the least impacted by stimulants, btw) assured that they would come blurting out of her mouth. Have you had a full neuro-psych evaluation to test for learning disabilities? Please explore all these areas, so that you can have a less stressful life.</p>

[anon1989]

<p>Thanks again for the very helpful replies. It’s been so nice for me to have honest input from so many about this situation :)</p>

<p>I don’t think I have significant doubts about my coworker’s previous experience, really, as she is knowledgeable about some things. It just feels like she is trying a bit too much to prove that she is more knowledgeable (or maybe just that I am not?), and that is mainly what I am having issues with, I think. </p>

<p>My PCP talked with me a lot about some of the feelings I had about work recently too and suggested cognitive therapy could be helpful, but I seem really hesitant to work with a therapist again. I thought of calling the counseling center multiple times last week, but I seem to have all sorts of excuses: it wasn’t helpful to me before, I am absolutely horrible at talking in that environment (feelings are not my strong point), I don’t have time, etc.</p>

<p>I keep thinking if I could just get the neurological stuff figured out, I would be so much better off. I really seemed to be a different person when I was taking the stimulant regularly – anxiety disappeared, I was much more composed, confident, and put together.</p>

<p>Then, with the brain swelling a few months ago, my heart rate and blood pressure spiked up, I developed weird neuro. symptoms, and the stimulant affected me very differently. I had to practically beg for a lower dose, as the usual one became way too sedating. The lower dose is not as bad, but not as good either. It’s the only thing I’m taking for my anxiety right now, and it seems to help somewhat. But blood pressure and heart rate are still way up (from 110/70, 80bpm to 130/90, 120bpm). </p>

<p>My suspicion is that the brain swelling resulted in nerve compression near the rostral ventrolateral medulla, and that has caused my sympathetic nervous symptom to be way more active than normal. If that’s the case, I think it would explain the neuro symptoms, hr, bp, and even why the stimulant isn’t helping any more, but I don’t know… I’ll probably end up keeping my guesses to myself and just see what the neurologist says.</p>

<p>My PCP has also looked into a few clinics where I could go to be tested, and encouraged me to do so, but I’m hesitant about that, as well. I had some psych testing done last year, and I was absolutely horrible at a lot of the impulse control tests. I don’t really want to repeat those, unless there’s some way I can improve my performance beforehand (practice? caffeine?). I did have an IEP in elementary school and early intervention for a language delay before that, but I don’t know if I was tested for learning disabilities. My Mom has dyslexia (and ADHD, imo, but that’s not been diagnosed/treated), and my brother has been diagnosed with eye tracking problems + Asperger’s. I wasn’t diagnosed with much until I started therapy in college. I think OCD, depression, generalized anxiety, ED-NOS, PDD-NOS, Asperger’s, and ADHD have all been diagnosed, but it’s just a collection of labels at this point, and no consensus on a primary diagnosis.</p>

<p>My life is pretty good right now, even with these (minor) issues at work. I have fun at my job, am enjoying my bioeng. classes, and even get together with friends sometimes. I miss exercising as much as I used to, but am still pretty happy with the way that things are right now, for the most part :)</p>

[oldfort]

<p>I am getting the impression you need to feel like you are right and do not like it when other people challenge you because it means they do not respect you. This is what you wrote:
First job

observed several issues that I believed to be critically important. All of these concerns seemed to be dismissed when I brought them up, with comments that I was just “too young to understand” and such.

Second job

The first few weeks, I felt really respected – like my ideas were worth listening to, my input was valued, etc.

About the new hire and your colleagues response to you

I feel like she has been very dismissive of my ideas, experience, opinions, etc…What concerns me is that we have spent a lot of time investigating issues recently, only to find out that I actually was right initially for several of them, and this attitude of me not being right seems persistent, regardless.

</p>

<p>I hope I am not taking what you wrote out of context. As a reader of your first post, it is the impression I got. </p>

<p>Someone very close to me also had a tendency of feeling being disrespected whenever someone disagreed with him. He always felt when he spoke or had a view, then he must be right. It caused him a lot of angst in life. </p>

<p>In the corporate environment, it is good to give your opinion, but even when you are absolutely right you need to give other people a chance to come around on their own. It doesn’t mean you are wrong or they are disrespectfu of you. I have a mentor who used to tell me that I need to slow down and try to build consensus, it is not about being right all the time.</p>

[Hugcheck]

<p>When your nemesis errrr colleague asked you if you had ever built a database, that was your opportunity to list your experience for her. If you do not tell people what your experience is, then they will judge you by how you look and speak. Speak up and sprinkle into your conversation some anecdotes about all the wonderful things you have done in the past. You don’t have to be obnoxious about it, but do make sure to let the people around you know what your basic competencies are. They are not mind readers and they have their own deep insecurities, too. So be kind, be firm, stand up for what you believe to be true. If in a meeting someone puts down your idea, this is not the time to think to yourself, ahh, they might be right and what if i’m wrong then i’ll look like a jerk. This is the time to state your idea again clearly in another way. You can use the phrase, “Let me describe this another way.” If you want to be a bit more forceful toward someone who is taking a superior posture you can say, “Let me say this again another way so that you can perhaps understand it better.” Letting your friend, err, coworker know you are irritated by her posture via your calm stare, communication of your qualifications, and a few choice snarky retorts when the opportunity arises will help communicate. And def. lose the ponytail!</p>

<p>You can also use humor saying something like, "I may look like a third grader but actually I have x years’ experience and did xyz with databases and have traveled to pqr and back again. I got my B.S. in (appropriately impressive topic) at age 19 so yeah, I can understand why you OLD PEOPLE (no don’t put that in sorry) might not get who I really am.</p>

[oldfort]

<p>I do not think snarky retorts would be helpful.</p>

[Hugcheck]

<p>I see your point, Oldfort. Perhaps snarky was a bad choice of words. Should never be done in public. But one on one, it would not hurt to let the person know she is being irritating. Not by being rude, but by saying something that communicates. We teach in everything we do. This young woman teaches her coworker what is acceptable and what is not in each interaction they have together. She could even quietly pull the coworker aside and have a private convo communicating her experience and expertise. </p>

<p>I love the line in the movie Men in Black where Will Smith’s character (J? T?) is trying to get everyone’s attention and he finally yells, “Hey … OLD PEOPLE!” Great moment!</p>

[oldfort]

<p>Here is a good book to read:
<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-Influence-People/dp/1439167346[/url]”>http://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-Influence-People/dp/1439167346&lt;/a&gt;
Dale Carnegie, “How to Win Friends and Influence People.”</p>

<p>He used to give seminars, and many successful people have attended his classes.</p>

[cobrat]

<p>

@oldfort

I hope I am not taking what you wrote out of context. As a reader of your first post, it is the impression I got. </p>

<p>Someone very close to me also had a tendency of feeling being disrespected whenever someone disagreed with him. He always felt when he spoke or had a view, then he must be right. It caused him a lot of angst in life. </p>

<p>In the corporate environment, it is good to give your opinion, but even when you are absolutely right you need to give other people a chance to come around on their own. It doesn’t mean you are wrong or they are disrespectfu of you. I have a mentor who used to tell me that I need to slow down and try to build consensus, it is not about being right all the time.

</p>

<p>I’m not really sure it’s so much about the OP needing to be right all the time as the fact older colleagues are disagreeing with her by using disrespectful and IMHO…patronizing language like “You’re too young to understand.” </p>

<p>If anything, my reading of her is that she has a tendency to apologize too easily when challenged by others…even when she knew she was right. IME, apologizing at the drop of the hat when anyone disagrees with you at length without allowing enough room for careful consideration provided by comments like “Let me think about it and I’ll get back to you” as a previous commenter noted is a great way to lose respect and to be pegged as “immature”, “inexperienced”, and unfortunately for some…not worth treating with even the most minimum of basic courtesies. </p>

<p>At the very least, I personally don’t find comments like “You’re too young to understand” to be indicative of the older person according the most basic professional courtesies that a professional…or any reasonable person would extend to others. </p>

<p>It isn’t too different from a younger colleague telling older colleagues…especially those lower on the hierarchy “You’re too old to understand”. I’ve had several instances I and other colleagues had to remind younger team members about the rank disrespectfulness of such comments. </p>

<p>Not are such comments unnecessarily disrespectful…they obscure the real issues which need to be discussed/critiqued. Her colleagues need to disagree with/critique the specific issues with her work product/experience/maturity…not use ad hominems.</p>

[anon1989]

<p>

observed several issues that I believed to be critically important. All of these concerns seemed to be dismissed when I brought them up, with comments that I was just “too young to understand” and such.

I didn’t go into detail about the issues I observed during the first job because my post was getting a bit too long, but I do believe that many would agree the issues were serious. As the data manager for the study, I felt it was important to tell the PIs that many of the subjects were completing all of their outcome assessments before they even started treatment (due to scheduling issues). I explained that I was concerned it would be an issue because we’d not have any post-treatment data for those subjects, and this would make it very difficult to form conclusions about the treatment efficacy. I was assured that it was all not a problem because they had a “really good” statistician who would handle it, and that I was just “too young to understand” the statistics involved. I have only taken a few statistics classes, so I might not have had the background necessary to understand all of the statistical analysis plans, but I do know it’s hard to draw conclusions when you don’t have any data about how the treatment affected the subjects!</p>

<p>Other issues I noticed involved several HIPAA violations and other concerns as far as data security and integrity. I really do think most would agree they were important, but I felt powerless in trying to explain that to others.</p>

<p>

When your nemesis errrr colleague asked you if you had ever built a database, that was your opportunity to list your experience for her.

Oh, I’m sorry I was unclear. I did tell my coworker about some of my past experience with regard to database management. She still wanted to do it herself, so I suggested she work on that database, and I would work on a database for another thing. It just bugged me that even after I explained my past experience, she seemed to disregard it, I guess.</p>

<p>

Someone very close to me also had a tendency of feeling being disrespected whenever someone disagreed with him. He always felt when he spoke or had a view, then he must be right. It caused him a lot of angst in life.

I think I can see a bit more how my previous posts gave you that impression, but, to be honest, I really do not care about being right. I know that I’ve been wrong about many different things so far, just like everybody else in the world. I appreciate people pointing this out to me and I do think I usually am pretty open to listening to their perspectives because it’s very possible that they see things differently than me. The main issue I have, however, is that I feel like I’m not being provided a fair opportunity to share my own perspective too. I think that a lot of people disregard what I have to say because I really do look a bit too young, and that bothers me.</p>

<p>Thanks also for the book suggestion! I have heard of it before, but have not gotten a chance to read it yet. It sounds like it could be helpful to me.</p>

[anon1989]

<p>Sorry, cobrat, looks like we crossposted again! I think we were thinking along similar lines though…</p>

<p>

If anything, my reading of her is that she has a tendency to apologize too easily when challenged by others…even when she knew she was right. IME, apologizing at the drop of the hat when anyone disagrees with you at length without allowing enough room for careful consideration provided by comments like “Let me think about it and I’ll get back to you” as a previous commenter noted is a great way to lose respect and to be pegged as “immature”, “inexperienced”, and unfortunately for some…not worth treating with even the most minimum of basic courtesies.

This is, indeed, exactly how I usually respond. I guess I didn’t realize it could lead others to lose respect for me – I just assumed that by avoiding arguing, I was being a nicer person to work with. I feel like apologies are really easy for me, and I don’t have a problem apologizing, even when I don’t believe I’m wrong. Sometimes I’ll say things like “I’m sorry you felt <em>__” without saying specifically "I’m sorry I </em> " because then I can focus on what I really do feel sorry about (i.e. somebody feeling less than optimal as a result of my actions), without having to apologize for something I don’t agree with. I don’t know if that’s manipulative or what, but if an apology is all it takes to make a situation better, than I usually do that.</p>

[oldfort]

<p>I would like to point out that cobrat is not a parent, if that matters. As some parents have pointed out, this maybe beyond work related issue.</p>

[cobrat]

<p>

I just assumed that by avoiding arguing, I was being a nicer person to work with. I feel like apologies are really easy for me,

</p>

<p>You are…but there is such a thing as being “too nice”…especially when it is unwarranted or done too often. IME, people who are “too nice” may be well-liked, but they aren’t respected and worse…are often overlooked, taken advantage of, and targeted for bullying by jerky colleagues/supervisors. </p>

<p>However, one can stand one’s ground without necessarily being argumentative to the perceptions of most reasonably minded people. </p>

<p>Goes back to my previous comment about learning to modulate one’s reactions to others’ disagreement/challenges between the extremes of being too apologetic at the drop of the hat on the one side…and on the other extreme…acting with an arrogant “F&^k you!” attitude. Neither tends to be very effective in most cases.</p>

<p>

I would like to point out that cobrat is not a parent, if that matters. As some parents have pointed out, this maybe beyond work related issue.

</p>

<p>I may not be a parent, but my comments are based on my own observations and experiences regarding similar experiences in both the classroom and the workplace. </p>

<p>I’m also a bit concerned because the OP is reminding me so much of highly intelligent/experienced/capable classmates/co-workers who were intimidated into silence by classmates/colleagues/supervisors who were merely better extroverts or worse…bullies who got off on humiliating/belitting those they perceived as “weaker” or “lesser” than themselves. </p>

<p>If that’s the case, advising further accommodation tactics (Being nicer to colleague making patronizing/belittling comments) may be counterproductive and if anything…could invite further patronizing/belittling comments. Especially if one looks far younger than their age.</p>

[anon1989]

<p>Thanks again for all of the helpful replies! I really appreciate the advice and hope to be able to make some positive changes soon. </p>

<p>I’ve scheduled a haircut appointment next week, in hopes that I can cut off the ponytail and go with a more mature haircut (while still being low-maintenance, hopefully). I don’t know that I’m ready to start wearing makeup regularly yet, but maybe I can start practicing on weekends, and go from there when I’m comfortable? I’m also considering fake non-corrective glasses, but not sure if that’s a stupid idea?</p>

<p>I’ll also definitely go shopping for a few new outfits, at least. I have been wearing jeans most days and that probably is not helping with how people see me. I have some nicer shirts and slacks, but they are not great, either (most are still too big for me, bought with the hope that I’d “grow into them” eventually).</p>

<p>I expect the harder changes for me will be communication-wise. Finding that balance between being nice and being a doormat, not too passive, but not also overpowering and/or arrogant. I’m guessing therapy would help with this, but not sure I’m ready yet. Will likely depend on how much of the neuro. stuff I can get back to normal – if I’m unsuccessful with that, then I’d probably be much more apt to start working with a therapist again…</p>

<p>Thanks again for all of the honest input, critique, and advice here. I appreciate it :)</p>

[mathmom]

<p>

and was not entirely sure that I would ever even work again.

And who exactly were you planning to have pay the bills?</p>

<p>This just rubbed me the wrong way, but it looks like your subsequent posts don’t sound so immature and you are getting plenty of good advice.</p>

[singersmom]

<p>anon1989 - Take a look at Lois P. Frankel’s website. There is a free career resources tab on the right hand side. Also take a look at the bookstore section.</p>

<p>Frankel makes some good points such as Stop apologizing; Don’t ask permission; Don’t put your opinions in the form of questions, etc. Another issue is that very often women’s voices tend to reach a higher pitch at the end of a sentence which turns the sentence into a question.</p>

<p>Look into using a personal shopping service at one of the local department stores to buy clothes. They can help you put together a wardrobe. Just call and ask if they have a personal shopping service. I know Nordstrom has such a department and they can work within your budget so long as you let them know you do have a budget and what it is. Remember quality vs. quantity is what you are looking for.</p>

<p>You might spend some time “scripting” conversations. How to respond in a professional manner; practicing not using “slang” expressions, not laughing or giggling in awkward situations, etc. Frankel suggests counting to three before responding.</p>

<p>Try to catch yourself saying, “I’m sorry.” And stop saying it.</p>

<p>Look for a personal coach to work with. Is there someone in your department who might make a good mentor?</p>

<p>You are obviously a bright young woman and you are making the same mistakes many young women make. Good luck to you.</p>

[cobrat]

<p>

I’m also considering fake non-corrective glasses, but not sure if that’s a stupid idea?

</p>

<p>Not necessary…and doing so may invite more ridicule if others find out you’re doing that to “appear mature” as I’ve seen similar reactions from classmates/colleagues with pre-teens/adolescents or those who appear as such wearing makeup or growing a mustache/beard. </p>

<p>Not saying it’s right…just reporting one of the less savory aspects of human nature. </p>

<p>

I’ll also definitely go shopping for a few new outfits, at least. I have been wearing jeans most days and that probably is not helping with how people see me. I have some nicer shirts and slacks, but they are not great, either (most are still too big for me, bought with the hope that I’d “grow into them” eventually).

</p>

<p>One question that wasn’t brought up earlier…what’s the dress code in your former/current workplaces? If it is anything other than a casual internet startup type environment…JEANS ARE ALMOST NEVER APPROPRIATE*. IME, business casual is the bare minimum in most corporate type environments.</p>

<p>Not sure about the rest…as long as you’re dressing in the same types of clothing your colleagues and supervisors are wearing and they’re clean and in good repair…you should be fine. </p>

<p>Even given all that, if you don’t get to the bottom of your auditory processing/communication issues, no amount of “maturing up” your appearance is going to help in the long term. </p>

<p>In some cases…focusing mostly/exclusively on that aspect will actually highlight others’ perceptions of immaturity and lacking in confidence.</p>

<ul>
<li>Except on certain occasions such as “casual fridays”.</li>
</ul>

[singersmom]

<p>I would also advise against the “fake” glasses. Now, if you get an eye exam and need a slight correction than go for it.</p>

<p>I have sent you a private message with the name of a neurologist and a neurocognitive assessment specialist. If they do not live in your area look for some one who is. In larger metropolitan areas there are often local magazines that have best doctors lists. Angie’s List also has reviews of doctors. Many medical insurance providers also have forums in which to recommend doctors.</p>

<p>I believe you should get a firm grip on your neurocognitive issues (if any) before you look for a therapist. Whoever does your assessment might be able to recommend someone.</p>

<p>I agree with the Toastmasters recommendation. Take a look at the dalecarnegie website. They offer seminars and there might be one available in your area.</p>

<p>I would also look into any IT groups in your area. These are often found on meetup. Set up a linkedin account. Most IT professionals are heavy subscribers to this service. You can use the free service; you don’t have to upgrade to the paid level.</p>

[HImom]

<p>I believe, especially if you look young, it is good to SLIGHTLY overdress (wear clothing similar in formalty to your supervisor rather than the student interns or peers). Unless EVERYONE in the office is wearing jeans and slightly oversized clothing, that is NOT a flattering look for anyone and I would strongly recommend you update your wardrobe AND work on any neurocognitive issues. Those two things should be very helpful to you. Good luck!</p>