Student seeking parental advice about work-related issues

anon1989 · January 15, 2012, 10:50pm

Well, to be honest, this is what I struggled most with during the year. One of my biggest fears is that I’ll ever inconvenience somebody else, or be a burden. I didn’t want to not work, necessarily, but I didn’t feel capable of working, if that makes sense. I felt like I might be competent enough in some respects (academically, cognitively), but was way too emotionally sensitive to handle things that could happen as a result of me working.

Basically, I have a tendency to be extremely interested in certain topics. I wouldn’t call them obsessions, but “special interests” or “passions” might be fitting. I usually jump in with both feet, immerse myself in the subject, and learn as much as I can. In the past, I’ve been lucky to have a lot of people mentor me, and they seem to be excited too. Unfortunately, I also have a tendency to lose interest completely unexpectedly. I never know when it will happen, but it does. I wake up one day, and I’m suddenly interested in something else – the subject that was absolutely enthralling before no longer holds my interest at all. As a result, I end up disappointing all of the people who supported me previously and they don’t seem to understand. They talk about all of the things “we were going to do”, and I end up hating myself for disappointing them.

So, my solution at the time, was just to sort of hide away from the world. I didn’t want people to support me, I didn’t want them to think I was capable of anything. I thought I’d maybe work on a few short-term projects, where I could be mostly anonymous. Nobody would have long-term expectations for me, and I’d avoid disappointing them. I thought that would be better.

Of course, it didn’t work too well. I was suicidal at points (mainly driven by fears of being a burden), and the job offers just made things worse. I had recruiters calling several times a week, and each call/email/invite triggered this paralyzing fear of disappointing people again. I applied to the job I have now because it looked like a basic, entry-level position where people wouldn’t have high expectations for me. It’s quickly turned into more, and I think that’s a good thing, but it’s obviously triggering some fears in me now.

Sorry for the long reply. Just wanted to give a bit of background. I assure you it wasn’t just me being an immature kid who decided they didn’t want to work, even though they were perfectly capable of doing so. I feel like my reasons were semi-valid, but I realize not all may feel similarly.

anon1989 · January 15, 2012, 11:00pm

I haven’t heard of Lois P Frankel’s site, but will have to check it out. Thanks for the suggestion!

At my last job, I actually had a coworker as a “personal shopper.” I have stayed in touch with her, so maybe could ask her to go with me again, or could also look into a real personal shopping service like at Nordstrom’s. I tend to prefer thrift stores because I am extremely frugal/cheap, but if it’s better quality stuff that will actually fit and look nice, then I think I can justify it. :)

I will skip the fake glasses. My eyes are very good, luckily, and I certainly don’t want to invite more ridicule for trying to look more mature.

I wore slacks to work the first day, but after my HR manager said the dress code was very informal and most of them wore jeans, I switched back to jeans. I don’t really care that much either way, so this should be an easy fix!

I definitely do need to work on the auditory processing / communication, neurocognitive stuff, but am not quite sure who to go to for that. My PCP suggested two clinics, but unfortunately, neither are in-network for my insurance. The real bummer is that they are in-network for the insurance I just opted-out of through work. I’ll have to wait until next January (2013), if I want to switch to that insurance… I was hoping to delay the assessment until then, but it sounds like something I might need to do sooner rather than later?

I’ve also looked into Toastmasters and there are lots of groups here, so I am in luck Will check out the Dale Carnegie website too!

singersmom · January 15, 2012, 11:13pm

anon1989 - some thrift shops may carry designer clothes. This type of shop might be a better bet. Find a good tailor. Look for a good dry cleaner with tailoring services or for an Alterations Express. You don’t want to wear a jacket that has too long sleeves - you’ll look like you are playing dress up.

Stay away from the funky, I want to look different clothes. You need a basic wardrobe. Outside of work you can dress your basis wardrobe with signature jewelry, scarves, etc.

I did send you a PM with the names of some good professionals in my area. I also made suggestions in post #39 about how to find a good professional if you live elsewhere.

Check back with your PCP and inform them you need a clinic that is in-network for your insurance. They can look for another clinic for you. I suggest you do the assessment sooner than later.

Double check with HR and see when you can switch to the other plan. You might be able to redo your paperwork since you just started. It does not hurt to ask.

Again I suggest looking into IT groups and joining LinkedIn.

anon1989 · January 15, 2012, 11:27pm

Thanks singersmom! I actually just was referred to the same neurology clinic, I believe, so it is comforting to hear good things about providers there. I’m really hopeful it will help :)

Unfortunately, I had only until 1/6/12 to change health insurance coverage, and opted to stay on my parent’s plan + FSA instead of dual-coverage. I have a few questions about benefits still though, so will double-check with the benefits group at work.

My PCP has already done a lot of research into clinics, so I am hesitant to ask her to do even more work. The therapist I saw before was a neuropsych, I believe, so I wonder if she’d be able to do some of the testing? I feel like she is not completely non-bias though because she is pretty insistent that I have Asperger’s (due to only really working with me before I was on meds, which is when my behavior definitely appears to be more ASD-like). But, on meds, all psychs swear I don’t fit ASD diagnosis because I have “too much insight”, eye contact/intonation/non-verbals normal, etc. I think that’s why my PCP wants me to get another opinion, even though I have had a lot already…

There are also plenty of IT groups here that I could join – the only issue will be fitting in the time, I think, but that would be nice. Also on LinkedIn, but considering closing my account if I can’t find a way to limit the contact from recruiters.

singersmom · January 15, 2012, 11:35pm

Make your LinkedIn profile private. When you are looking for a job you can make it public so the recruiters can find you.

IT groups meet at lunch or in the evening. You will find many people who you “click” with.

Make time for yourself. It may sound selfish, but you need some me time.

singersmom · January 16, 2012, 12:18pm

I did re read your posts. You do have a lot going on. You are working (part time?); taking bio engineering classes (graduate school?) and dealing with the after effects of an allergic reaction to an drug that caused swelling of the brain. At first your symptoms were thought to be psychosomatic probably due to your prior eating disorder and LD diagnosis.

As for LinkedIn and meetup I withdraw my previous suggestion as I did not realize you are taking classes and working at the same time. It is OK to stay on LinkedIn - many students do and you can use it as a place to update your resume and accomplishments.

Instead of IT societies I suggest you find a campus organization that piques your interest and make a commitment to that organization. I do not know if your school has bio/engineering fraternities/organizations, but those are good places to meet others with the same interests and engage in social and other activities.

You might also look for a campus organization that is mind/body oriented like tai chi or something similar. There are many who believe tai chi and similar disciplines help with focus. You could also try a DVD - the library may even have one you can borrow to see if you care for it.

It sounds like your job is on campus; your classes are on campus and if you find a campus organization that interests then it will be easier for your time management.

musicprnt · January 16, 2012, 1:23pm

I have no training in issues around cogniitive disorders and the like, but the things you describe from what I know could be signs of someone with something like high functioning aspergers (having known some people with that, it looks very similar), the frustration when someone doesn’t agree with your conclusions, for example, is something I have seen. I think dismissing anyone for being ‘too young’ is quite frankly rude and stupid, if someone younger comes to me with something they think is important, I hear them out, and if I disagree I explain why, but there are still a lot of jerks out there of all ages who think they have divine wisdom or something. I have been known to say something like “I can understand where you are coming from, but experience has shown me that X is more likely the case here” and explain why…big difference.

That said, leaving out any neurological/cognitive issues, from reading your posts the biggest thing I see is lack of confidence and also taking far too much of your self esteem from what people tell you, it is what they call an external locus of control. It is one thing to respect what people tell you and take it into account (for example, someone tells you you are acting like a jerk after seeing the way you dealt with someone) and taking measure of self worth entirely from what others seem to be telling you. While it is a wise person who listens and looks around, the problem is there are more then a few people out there who build their self esteem by knocking other people, the girl you share an office with may be an example of that (I won’t say she is, I don’t know any details…). You are obviously self conscious about your age and I think that is causing you to feel uncertain, among other things, and you are going to need to get over that.

All of us were young once, starting jobs right out of college, and in many cases we probably know less about we were doing then you do with what you are doing. I went right out with my CS degree and was thrown into the middle of large scale trading systems for a major stock exchange, and take it from me, what I learned in college was a micro fraction of what I needed to learn there. It is scary as hell, it is why I always try to make it a point to mentor young colleagues and also try to help build their confidence, because that is the key to a lot of things in the work world (and life). I was fortunate, the people around me were great mentors but they also didn’t baby me, I started taking on major responsibility within 6 months of working there, because that is the way the senior people did things, and it was a great learning experience.

Some general pieces of advice, that I hope will help (some of which I am sure others have said)

-Women, especially young women, have a tendency as another poster said to end a declarative sentence raising their tone at the end, which sounds like a question rather then saying “this is what I believe” (and older woman who grew up down south said that was actually quite common where she grew up, for both men and women:). If you say “I think this is a problem” in a steady tone, it comes off as sounding like you really know what you are talking about, whereas if you say “I think this is a PROB-lem” (trying to reproduce the lilt in a voice is not easy) it comes off as “I think this is a problem (?)”, it sounds hesitant. When making a statement, try to avoid doing that with your voice, make it more assertive. Dale Carnegie and other people writing books on similar themes will say the same thing, that people read body language and voice as much as the words, and IMO that is true.

-Yep, there are some people who look at someone who is young and say “what do they know”, but a lot of people don’t, they are smart enough to realize that people younger then themselves may have a different view, different experience and listen to what they say, as long as they come off as speaking with confidence.

Little anecdote from my own humble beginnings. I was the lead analyst on a pretty nasty project that I was thrown on about 6 month after I joined the company right after school (fortunately I was also assigned a senior team member to report to who taught me so much and also ran interference for me when needed)…we had a really rough project cycle, it was one of the famous ‘will take 6 week projects’, that was way late, and that stretched an entire summer for my part. Anyway, we were going into a second product test with the users, the first one had been a disaster, and I wanted to make sure that the ops people controlled the test to keep things going, so I was sticking to the operations area. The VP my area reported to wanted me to go check on some piece of obscure communications equipment (supposedly could record data communications, hah) in the coms area, and I didn’t want to. I ended up face to face with the VP, telling him why I needed to stay; I lost the argument (my boss thought I was going to get my tookus thrown off the site), but the vp told my boss to tell me that he (the vp) appreciated me arguing with him when I thought I was right even though he was a vp…not saying you need to get red in the face like I was, but strength of conviction goes a long way towards gaining respect…doesn’t mean you always will win, or in fact always will be right, but people remember those who are willing to express their ideas and give the good fight, but then graciously retreat when told to (not saying I graciously retreated in my story!).

-Is there anyone more senior you are friendly with, feel confident talking to? One of the most valuable things to have are mentors, both formal and informal, I had a large group of them, still do after 25+ years…it might be especially cool if you could find both male and female mentors as a young woman, I think they both can give you valuable, unique perspectives on things.

-You may need more then one type of therapist/counselor (again, just my opinion). Someone can help you with any cognitive issues you have, other things, but one thing a therapist/counselor can do for you is help you get to the place where you figure out why you lack confidence and help you build it. A therapist I used for several years said with what she called “'my girls” that her goal was to have someone come out at the end of their time together with an exterior of velvet and a skeleton of titanium steel:)…the other thing is that you need to find someone you are comfortable with, can work with, trust, it is a very individual experience. If one therapist doesn’t work, try another one, until you feel you have found what you need.

-I noticed you worried that you were overtaxing your pcp/overburdening them, please don’t feel that way, they are there to help you and it sounds like they really want to help you. I felt the same way when working with my therapist, I used to keep things from her, not tell her things, not wanting to ‘dump everything on her’, and she said first of all I wasn’t ever a burden, I wasn’t that type of person, and secondly that that was her job and if she couldn’t take clients who needed her like that she shouldn’t be in the profession. Yeah, there are people who take up too much bandwidth, but believe me, they will tell you if they feel you are abusing them or wanting too much, and it usually is a point well away from what you think.

I wish you well, I know how hard it is to be young and starting out but understand that at least some of what you face will disappear pretty rapidly, you haven’t worked that long yet and you will prob find that as time goes on, your age stops meaning much once people see what you can do:)

anon1989 · January 16, 2012, 5:46pm

Thanks again for all of the great ideas, stories, and advice. Very helpful to me!

I am definitely pretty busy now (although I have the day off today :)). I usually catch an early bus (6-6:30am) and am at my desk by 7am or so. There’s always plenty of work to keep me more than busy during the day. I’ve started attending lectures during lunch, but on other days, will just walk around for an hour or so, getting a daily dose of vitamin D and a little more exercise! On early days, I am home as early as 5:30pm or 6, but on days that I have research/school/appointments I rarely am home before 9 or 9:30pm. From there, I often just touch base with family, and try to fall asleep asap.

I would like a bit more time sometimes to work on things at home, but I suppose that’s what the weekends are for! My other commitments (laundry, friends, mentoring, message boards, etc.) do seem to fit in okay on weekends, so I think it is working out for the time being. Hardest part for me is limiting other things I would like to do – I’ve been invited to join another racing team, for instance, and would like to play soccer, or take more classes, but am trying to be cautious about overloading myself now. There’s also “less fun” things like therapy and appointments that I’ve put off for a while now, that I probably should try to fit in, somewhere…

I think the hardest part for me right now is that I mistakenly assumed all of the issues I had around “being young” would disappear once I was finally at least a normal age for the job. I thought, somehow, that turning 22 would fix everything, and, now, I’m finally realizing that it’s about so much more than my chronological age. People will judge a lot by the way that I present myself, whether I want to accept that or not.

It’s finally starting to make more sense to me and I guess I am sort of excited about that now. I don’t think I ever really understood the emphasis on appearance that so many others seemed to have, but maybe I’m finally starting to get it now. I think I used to assume that it was just something people did when they didn’t feel good enough as they were, but I didn’t believe that it ultimately changed much. I thought I’d be better off not “wasting” any energy on improving my appearance – to me, I thought it would be better to focus on things that were more internal.

But, I think I’m kind of starting to see it more from an engineering or design perspective now. I could put a bunch of effort into making a really awesome product, but if it looks bad, it’s very unlikely people will even stop to notice it. I don’t think it’s that different with people, really, and putting more effort into my appearance definitely seems worthwhile when I think about it this way. I don’t think I need to look fantastic, but I can at least fix the easy things, so that I appear a bit more professional and worth attention too.

The other issue I’m encountering now is realizing that I can be a worthwhile, successful person, even if I’m closer to a normal age. So much of my identity to this point has been wrapped up in being young. Even though I didn’t go around proclaiming my age to everybody who asked, they often placed a lot of emphasis on it. Performance reviews are full of stuff like “performs at a level that belies her young age” and the compliments I received often were focused on my age too. I didn’t always mind it. I liked having an excuse of sorts, at times, and giving that up is a bit scary to me too. Clearly I would have had to change sometime, it would have been a bit strange to still be known as a “whiz kid” or their “little prodigy” at 42, but it’s just a bit sooner than I expected, maybe.

anon1989 · January 16, 2012, 6:15pm

Yes, I think I can see this too. The cognitive rigidity was one of the main reasons I suspected I was somewhere on the spectrum around 18 or 19, and it was a big problem for me then. I was much more stubborn in the way that I saw things, back then, but I have found that proper nutrition has helped me immensely in this regard. Since I’ve read some articles about cognitive rigidity developing as a response to starvation in anorexics, I have thought that might be a more likely explanation (especially because it seemed to have improved so much with proper nutrition, in my case).

I definitely do think that I place too much emphasis on what people tell me, and it is something I’d like to change. I think, for the most part, I don’t really trust my own opinions and perceptions that much, and that’s probably a big part of the issues I’m having now. I think I can see that it is probably hard for others to trust my own ideas and opinions when I can’t even trust them myself!

The ironic part is that, in my previous position, I did get to a point where I was very comfortable speaking my mind. I had a lot of opportunities to be involved in the initial, planning phases and would tell them quite honestly where I saw problems. I think it might almost have been to the point of me being arrogant, because I often had no problem pointing out issues that I saw, even when the person I was speaking to was more experienced than I was. It sort of reminded me of your anecdote, musicprnt, because I received praise for “speaking my mind” too, and pointing out things that others might not have.

Even though I had a lot of confidence in that position and enjoyed it a lot, I ultimately ended up burning out. My transition to a different research area was very rocky to say the least. I didn’t have much confidence by the time I started working with the new group, and only lasted about six months there or so. It felt like I started to get more confidence in bringing up the issues I noticed (mentioned elsewhere on this thread, I believe), but was ultimately discouraged by the comments about me being too young.

Somehow, I ended up here. I was fairly confident the first few weeks, and I think a large part of that was a result of the encouragement I received from supervisors. After my new colleague started, I seemed to become a lot more anxious about saying anything, because I feared any mistakes I made would be capitalized on and emphasized.

I think it’s interesting that there are a few meetings I attend each week, which she does not, and I definitely seem more confident in those. I’ve received a lot of positive feedback from that group, and I think that I am much less afraid of making mistakes in that setting.

It probably also helps that my HR manager is often at those meetings too. She has been extremely supportive so far, and even took me out to coffee last week to touch base about how the job was going so far. Since, the job has been pretty awesome so far, I had mostly positive things to say, but did mention that it had been a little difficult being young. She mentioned that it’s hard for her too, sometimes, but she hopes that as people get to know me, and I get a bit more confident, it will work itself out. I am hopeful that will be the case too! And, the new, gradual changes I hope to make will hopefully help too :)

cobrat · January 16, 2012, 9:47pm

We all have self-doubts and feeling unsure about ourselves at various times in our lives…that’s a part of the human condition.

However, if it is overwhelming and pervasive to the point you have a hard time keeping that part of yourself close to your chest outside of close family/friends…that’s an issue you need to tackle ASAP.

Rightly or wrongly, people prefer the leadership and advice from those who exude great confidence…even if their modes of leadership and advice are mostly/completely off-kilter.

anon1989 · January 16, 2012, 11:50pm

That makes a lot of sense! Amazing how powerful something relatively simple (like confidence) can be. I hope that Toastmasters can help me a little with that :)

I also downloaded 7 Habits of Highly Effective People to my Kindle today (free through the Amazon Lending Library!). Hopefully, that will help as well…

singersmom · January 17, 2012, 11:03am

anon1989 - a good example is to look at photos of Bill Gates. If you compare photos of him in the early Microsoft days to the photos of him today there is a radical difference. Of course, his “look” also changed once he became involved with Melinda. All of the original Microsofties changed their look as the company grew.

Steve Jobs is another good example of someone who changed their look as their career progressed.

You do not have to be radical about your changes - perhaps black jeans instead of blue jeans. A cardigan instead of a hoodie. Black or brown leather shoes instead of flip flops or athletic shoes. Look at what others in your office wear. You have mentioned someone from HR several times - how does that person dress? You can slowly upgrade your wardrobe so you do not go from wearing blue jeans to wearing designer slacks overnight.

I urge you again to look at Lois Frankel’s books - they are aimed at working women.

musicprnt · January 17, 2012, 1:12pm

One comment from your last post, often being confident can border at times on coming off as arrogant, and that is something I would recommend watching for as well. For example, you mentioned that there have been times when you saw issues with things and felt like it wasn’t heard. In a situation like that, sometimes the reason people dismiss it isn’t because they feel the person doesn’t know but rather are reacting in the way it is said (and obviously, I don’t know you or the situation, so this is strictly an observation that may or may not help.

For example,let’s say you are in a meeting, and the discussion is the design of a new database schema, and you see something that is a flaw. There are ways to point it out that can be perceived wrong and better ways to do it IME, let me give you an example:

“Your database schema as designed won’t work well, the way you have the two tables joined, it will cause the system to run as slow as molasses in January under load”. While the intent is obviously to point out a potential issue, this can come off as someone a)trying to make a point at someone else’s expense or b)said in a way that makes the person seem like they are full of themselves…why? because it is a direct assertion, and the way it is said, whatever the intent, it makes it seem like the whole thing if junk.

Better way:

“I have a question about the schema, where you have table A and Table B joined like that, if there are a lot of concurrent transactions hitting both tables at the same time, could that cause a performance issue?”. The intent is the same, to raise a potential problem, but in the first case you are asserting the design is wrong, in the second you are allowing the person to feel like it is someone simply trying to help make the thing as good as possible,and raising the question gives the person the chance to look at what you are saying and answer it. In doing so, too, they can’t just dismiss it, if you raise a question if they just say it isn’t a problem and not explain it, they look like a jerk, not you…kind of double benefit:). You are being assertive enough to spot a potential issue but you also are showing respect for the person…

Another way (works better one on one) is the blanket a question/criticism with positives “Hey, X, I looked at the database Schema and I think it is really doable. I have a question (blah blah blah)…that is all I saw, though, I think the rest is solid”. It raises the concerns, but also shows respect for the work the person made on it (code reviews are often quite dicey, people generally take pride in that they write).

As far as the way you present yourself, I agree totally. If your concern is being treated as a kid because of looking young, if you wear a pair of beat up jeans, a hoodie sweatshirt and a pair of sneakers, the things kids wear in high school and college, how are peopel going to take that? I am speaking as someone sartorial challenged, so I am kind of the pot calling the kettle black. While dress codes in IT aren’t exactly a banker at Goldman Sachs it still can say a lot about how you are perceived. You don’t need to wear power suits or designer fashions, a stylish pair of black jeans and a nice sweater with a pair of decent shoes or boots (no Doc Maartens!) can go a long way. Likewise, having your hair neatly taken care of, your nails neat (you don’t need to have long, polished nails, just taken care of,not ragged) shows someone taking care of themself, rather then a perpetual college student look.

And it isn’t just about how other people see you, there is a lot of truth that the way we present ourselves also feeds out self confidence. When I was working on a novel, where the main character was a woman, written from her perspective, my wife gave me hell about the way I had her doing things, and one of the things is that women dress, not only to impress others (especially other women), but also to make themselves feel more confident/better about themselves, that knowing they present themselves in a certain way makes a big difference in their confidence (and yes, the same can hold true for men, in different ways IME). I know even in my own lack of splendor that I feel better when I try to take care of myself, eating right, exercising and otherwise trying to look a bit less like a slob:).

sylvan8798 · January 17, 2012, 1:29pm

Occasions such as this provide you the opportunity to do a postmortem to see ways you might have reacted differently. For example, after you first mentioned the SSL possibility, and your colleague rejected it, you might have said something like: “I can check into it and rule it out for sure in about 10 minutes (or whatever). I’ve seen the SSL exception cause some strange things to happen.”

If it was something that wasn’t going to eat up a bunch of time, the boss might have been reassured to see the team taking a thorough approach to troubleshooting the problem.

anon1989 · January 18, 2012, 3:19am

I sure was thinking about this thread a lot at work today! Thank you so much for the help and advice :)

I dressed up just a bit more than usual today and did feel a little better about myself from that already, I think. My hair was still a mess, I’m sure, and likely will be for the next week or two (until I finally have time to get it cut). I really like the idea of black (or at least very dark) jeans instead of my usual lighter colored ones, and plan to look for a pair or two of those online.

I think that buying new pants and shoes will be pretty easy, and I’m almost looking forward to it (more clothes = don’t have to do laundry as frequently!). Just a bit nervous about buying tops – I don’t think I could ever be one of those people that wears accessories like scarves and such (I have a feeling I would lose within the first hour of wearing – I’m not very good at keeping track of stuff like that).

Also a bit unsure of what’s professional and what’s not with those. I’m extremely conservative, so don’t think it’s an issue of clothes not covering enough, but more that some of the tops I have are sort of form-fitting and it seems like most people wear button-down shirts and polos that are not as clingy? I can’t really tell if it’s a professional type thing, or just that most of my coworkers are male. I guess I probably should just research online somewhere (or maybe spring for the personal shopper idea)… a pretty stupid/naive question on my part, I know. Lois P Frankel’s books might help too?

I did pay a lot more attention to my voice today, and the way that I was saying things. I noticed when I was very unsure about something my voice was sort of lacking in body/air/effort, if that makes sense. I don’t think I’m explaining very well, but I noticed it sort of tapering off towards the end of statements, and it was both quieter and flatter in tone? Also noticed the higher pitched intonation when I was just guessing about things and/or joking around… I also have a tendency to giggle too much, I think, and probably should be more serious about things.

I didn’t make much progress in asserting myself today, but I am okay with that – can’t fix everything in one day My office-mate actually was really nice to me today too, for the most part. I think I might have misinterpreted last week (probably also just generally too sensitive so prone to misinterpreting things).

Still no news on the referral for auditory processing / Asperger’s stuff. I go back and forth a lot about Asperger’s dx b/c I still really don’t think it fits. I seem to have the knowledge and ability to be socially capable / “normal” when I need to be, but don’t always make myself focus on that because it takes so much energy already to just get what people are saying (not to mention, trying to organize my own thoughts at same time). Similar with ADHD symptoms, I think, where I can stop myself from fidgeting if I need to, but don’t use up energy trying to stay still if it’s not super important to do so. I feel like if I didn’t have so much trouble understanding people verbally, I’d have more to devote to being “normal” in other respects, and probably not have as many of the problems I do now… I like to think that, at least, I guess, but who knows… just wish I could be a bit more patient about it all!

sylvan8798 · January 18, 2012, 7:22am

Girl don’t you live where you can get to a mall? Fit is important and you need to be able to try things on. Don’t start on how you hate to shop - the makeover demands personal attention.

If you don’t go for a personal shopper, you can get help at places like Ann Taylor, J. Crew, Macy’s, or J.C. Penneys. Even Express, although they may be a little to revealing for your tastes. Google “business casual” for some ideas on putting things together.

As for accessories, keep it simple. Keep shoes comfortable, but learn to wear something besides sneakers.

oldfort · January 18, 2012, 8:12am

Pinstripe shirts are good for work. You could dress it up or down. You could have a blazer at work to put on if you need to go to a more formeeting. Flat shoes (with a little heel) are good for casual work environment.

Pinstripe shirsts could be made from traditional cotton (Brooks Brother) or nicer material like silk.

I have been shopping for D1’s work wardrobe. She is first year at work, but her work environment is more formal.

singersmom · January 18, 2012, 10:41am

Polos and pinstripes are known as the preppy look. You can search on line for more information about this type of look. You state that most of the guys wear this look. How about the women like the HR employee you have mentioned? Take a look at what the women in your office wear.

As far as your form fitting tops check out the neckline, too. Make certain they are not too low especially if you are leaning over or someone is standing at your shoulder. If you like your tops although they are form fitting, but not revealing you can wear a cardigan or blazer over them.

I second sylvan’s recommendations on the stores. I would also look at Ann Taylor Loft and Banana Republic. When you go shopping make certain the clothes you buy are right for you. Don’t just ask the sales person. Make certain you look at yourself in the full length mirror. Remember the sales person is there to make sales. That is their job. You can even ask other customers what they think - I would not ask someone your own age - I would ask someone a little older.

Since you mentioned taking classes you must have a student ID. I know J. Crew gives a 15% discount to students. You also mentioned you work at your alma mater. If you have an employee ID J. Crew also has an educator’s discount. So, you win either way.

Don’t be afraid to ask for a student or educator’s discount at the other stores. 15% is 15%!

Macy’s also has personal shoppers. Macy’s also has a lot of presales. So, if you buy something at Macy’s ask if it is a presale day. You usually have to ask to get the presale discount. The only drawback is that you have to wait until the day of the actual sale to go back and pick up your purchases. However, money saved is more money in your pocket.

Make certain the clothes you buy are right for you. Make certain you know the return period if you just cannot bring yourself to wear them. Returns are usually 30 to 90 days. You do not want to have clothes hanging in your closet that you do not wear.

Good for you changing your look. I was glad to read you paid attention to your conversational voice. It is difficult to be self aware, but is necessary for you right now.

Ha! I just searched for career clothes and found a website thegrindstone dot com. There is a hilarious article about how leggings are not pants. One of the suggestions is to dress 10 years older than you are. The article is in the career management section and the title is Bullish: 3 Career Mistakes Young Women Make. Looks like it might have some other useful information also. You should take a look.

Thanks, anon1989, if it was not for you I would not have found this website!

anon1989 · January 18, 2012, 11:36pm

I think you might know me too well already I really have a hard time shopping in the mall, but might just have to get over it and go this weekend. In the past, I had friends at work who started off picking things out for me online, and then after it all arrived, we took a trip back to the mall to return some of the things I didn’t like and pick out more. We went to a ton of stores, although I only remember a few (Nordstrom, Eddie Bauer, Kohls, REI, others too I’m sure). I just have a hard time justifying the prices, crowds, etc…

I do think I need to toss the sneakers. They’re actually sort of falling apart now and should have been thrown away long ago. I have plenty of other pairs, but just like the sneakers. Good to know that I can run to catch the bus if I need to, without worrying about breaking an ankle in heels, or something…

I think I could definitely go for more pinstripe shirts. I didn’t realize that was what they were called, but I have one in particular that I really like. Wrinkle-free and actually looks good on me – I think I wear it every time I have to “dress up” and also goes well with jeans, slacks, etc. I am going to try to find a few more like that, but have to buy in-person (I have sensory issues… don’t like fabrics to be “scratchy” or velvety, and prefer thermals or elastic/spandex, oddly enough). My coworker dresses similarly (pinstripe shirt with khakis, slacks, etc.), so I think it will be okay.

Finally, a piece of fashion advice that I actually already knew :)

Good to know about the student and employee discounts! I don’t think I’ve shopped at JCrew before, but have been to Macy’s. The presales idea sounds interesting. Thanks!

singersmom · January 19, 2012, 12:40am

anon1989 - take a look at Clarks Shoes. Yes, you can run to catch the bus in their shoes.

Another good place - DSW shoes. For instance Rocket Dog has “sneaker” type shoes that are ballet flats. Good prices, too. They also carry Clarks.

Walking Company is also good.

Take a look at Dansko, Naot, etc. They may be a little more expensive, but are good, supportive shoes that you can run in. Nordstrom carries Dansko.

The last thing you want to do is “blow out” your arch running to catch the bus in bad shoes.

Here is a tip for good shoes that will not fall apart. Put the shoe between your hands and try to bend the toe to the heel. If you can do that they are not supportive and you won’t be able to run in them. Next hold the toe box with one hand the heel with the other. Try twisting the toe box one way and the heel the other.

Student seeking parental advice about work-related issues

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