<p>The defense forensic expert says that gun was against TM’s clothing but TM’s clothing was two to four inches away from his skin. This expert has extensive credentials. </p>
<p>This supports defense claim that TM was leaning forward over GZ.</p>
<p>tom1944–I think I read in the Florida statutes or regulations concerning concealed carry that it was a criminal offense to “flash” the weapon or verbally reveal that you are carrying other than to a police officer.</p>
<p>I think (but I’m not positive) that if you have a concealed carry permit in Florida you cannot say “stay where you are, I’m armed” without breaking the law. So, to me, it is prudent to assume a carry by the other person.</p>
<p>Consolation, I completely agree with you. But then, it seems odd to me that a black man could call the police about a DV situation as manager of a building and have the police question HIM as to why he is there. It seems odd to me that my city had “sundown laws” as recently as the 1960’s imposing a curfew of sorts on African Americans and certain parts of the city-police had the legal right to stop and perhaps arrest any black person north of a certain landmark, and some of whom admit that they still stop such people just in case. It seems odd to me that my white son, who is a blue collar worker and can look kind of scruffy can go anywhere he chooses but by D’s black BF is questioned and followed when HE goes out.</p>
<p>But that’s just me.</p>
<p>Sadly, it’s not just you, sseamom.</p>
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<p>Because someone was threatening him with a gun and saying he was going to shoot it?</p>
<p>“The defense forensic expert says that gun was against TM’s clothing but TM’s clothing was two to four inches away from his skin. This expert has extensive credentials. This supports defense claim that TM was leaning forward over GZ.”</p>
<p>Depending on how the person on top was positioned, it might better support the prosecution’s claim. Still irrelevant IMO. Wrestling is not a legitimate motive for homicide. (Ref: Lack of GZ’s DNA on TM’s hands … no indication of fisticuffs on TM’s knuckles.)</p>
<p>Forensic expert says abrasion on TM’s finger is consistent with hitting a hard surface such as concrete. He says may or may not see bruising on TM’s hands from punching because can punch someone and get bruises or not get them. Can depend on if hit hard surface or soft one (Prior witness described GZ as soft). Only way to tell for sure is some procedure I couldn’t figure out but it wasn’t done.</p>
<p>Sally, you’re suggesting that GZ not only gunned down TM in cold blood, but he taunted him before he shot him? And TM screamed while being taunted? Seriously?</p>
<p>^ razor - Last time I’ll mention it, promise … there was no GZ DNA on TM’s hands. Did the defense forensic expert say it was possible to batter an adult to death with one’s hands and not pick up any DNA? A smoker leaves DNA on smoked cigarette butts … but TM can pummel GZ and pick up none?</p>
<p>And an abrasion that is possible from hitting concrete is not proof he hit GZ. His hand could have hit the concrete if he was tackled or GZ tackled him and they were wrestling.</p>
<p>Paid well enough, he can say anything.</p>
<p>Forensic expert says injuries in back of GZ’s head consistent with hitting concrete.</p>
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I don’t think he’s discussed DNA yet and don’t know if he wiill. But does it really matter? Will you believe him anyway?</p>
<p>I have to come back with a problem with the law. To me the gun owner is responsible for the proper use of his weapon. I also would discount any testimony of the person that lived and rely on physical evidence. To use deadly force you would need to show me physical evidence that deadly force was being used against you. To me GZ knows that and that is why he said TM was trying to get the gun.</p>
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<p>I have not heard him talk about this yet. Probably the prosecution will address this on cross.</p>
<p>I hope they ask if the head abrasion could have happened if GZ and TM scuffled and both hit the ground. I do not think their is any doubt they wrestled or came in contact. Does the abrasion prove TM bashed GZ’s head or could it happened another way?</p>
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<p>Ah, the battle of the experts issue! We had an expert always used by the prosecution in capital murder cases. He became known as “Dr. Death.” </p>
<p>[Effect</a> of “Dr. Death” and his testimony lingers - Houston Chronicle](<a href=“http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Effect-of-Dr-Death-and-his-testimony-lingers-1960299.php]Effect”>http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Effect-of-Dr-Death-and-his-testimony-lingers-1960299.php)</p>
<p>“I don’t think he’s discussed DNA yet and don’t know if he wiill. But does it really matter? Will you believe him anyway?”</p>
<p>A fair point Bov … and the answer is “No.” But it doesn’t really matter what I think … except to my compatriots here on CC of course.</p>
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<p>Not quite, sschickens. The following is MY OPINION.</p>
<p>I think GZ went out that night looking for a problem to solve–and that “problem” was TM, who as far as we know was doing nothing objectionable besides WWB (walking while black). GZ seems to have had grandiose ideas about his potential hero status in the neighborhood. Maybe that’s why he had a loaded gun in his car “on his way to Target” (which I believe was actually an excuse to try to see where TM had gone). He didn’t have a wallet or money with him, which makes the Target trip hard to believe. GZ was frustrated with the “a**holes who always get away” and pursued TM after being told not to by the dispatcher and in direct violation of all his Neighborhood Watch training. He never identified himself to TM or tried to find out in a calm way where he was going. I personally think he was a hothead, a frustrated and not very bright young man who couldn’t even graduate from community college with a degree in criminal justice. I think he lied about why he got out of the car (really? the NW guy doesn’t know the street names in a neighborhood with only three streets?). I think his inconsistencies and lies are exactly why he won’t testify (and yes, I understand it is his right not to).</p>
<p>Once the physical confrontation began (and we don’t know who initiated the contact), there was tussling, both people may have been on top at different times, and there was screaming. It sounded like desperate pleading to me, and like the voice of a young man. I also think the length of time the screaming continued suggests someone threatening someone with the absolute knowledge that they could end the struggle at any moment–and to me the gun is the only weapon available that could have done that.</p>
<p>If anyone IS interested in the science aspect, google “trace” or “touch dna” for a discussion of the quantity necessary to make any determination, the effectiveness of collection methods, etc.</p>
<p>It isn’t exactly what the TV series indicate.</p>
<p>Forensic expert says there is evidence of at least six impacts on GZ’s head. This expert is very credible. </p>
<p>I have to wonder how is GZ paying these experts and lawyers, etc. He has no job and no money and I know the experts are extremely expensive. The forensic expert’s credentials are pretty impressive.</p>