I’ve been following this board and am thankful for all the valuable information and insights. I have a 2025 track daughter who is interested in NESCACs, Ivys and a couple Patriot League programs. She is getting good interest from NESCACs, more lukewarm from the Ivy/Patriot League D1s. She is on the bubble of recruiting times for the Ivys but hits most “team/walk-on” standards. Decent student - 3.75 GPA unweighted with 1450 SAT from a high academic private school in the northeast. Can anyone shed light on timing? She would prefer a D1 but may get a NESCAC offer or two before she can wait it out on the D1s which may be later. Has anyone been in a similar situation and how did you handle? Thank you.
Why does she prefer D1?
Timing can vary by school for sure. I would encourage her to continue communicating with coaches. I would be honest with them though and not verbally commit to a NESCAC if she is not 100% certain that’s her preference. Reneging for a better offer does happen of course but not ideal.
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Thank you for your fast response. Her goal has always been D1 as long as the academics are also strong. She prefers to be at the back of the pack at a D1 with the goal of working her way up with the quality competition.
Has she looked at the team times though? There are certainly some D3 teams that are faster than some D1 teams…my point being there is overlap in talent across divisions. Thoughts @politeperson?
IMO students should choose the school that fits them best if they don’t have the athletic piece…and I do realize that’s not always possible to know. A high proportion of college athletes do not compete for four years.
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With the academic stats you shared, absent some huge achievement in an EC, it is unlikely that your D will gain admission at an Ivy without recruiting support. Unless her times improve dramatically, it is also unlikely she will be offered D1 if she is currently on the bubble.
As far as timing is concerned, NESCAC’s cannot offer official full support until after pre-reads are done in the summer before senior year. The timing/process discussion should be between your D and the coaches that have interest.
School fit should be your D’s top priority, and participation in intercollegiate sports should be part of the equation. For one of my kids, starting immediately on a NESCAC team as well as going to a smaller more intimate school, drove her decision. S was recruited by a number of selective D3’s, including NESCACs, but after his visits, he decided that he wanted a larger school experience and went to an Ivy without being a recruit but enjoyed his sports at a Club level.
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Thank you for your reply. Yes, I understand she will need recruiting support. She has the standards at some Ivys but not all. My understanding from reading these boards and others who have shared personal experiences, it that if she can pass a pre-read at a NESCAC then she should be able to pass a pre-read at a couple of Ivys. She knows pre-reads will not be until July but a few coaches have asked for materials and have given her good feedback that they believe a pre-read will be positive given if she remains a high recruit for them.
Understand though that coaches, including at Ivies, offer pre-reads to more than the number of students that they can support, often multiples, based upon their history with yields on athletes they offer support who then turn them down.
In our experience, there is usually a very clear message even before pre-reads that your kid is a top recruit or someone further down the list or not on the list at all.
Best of luck to your D.
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She’ll have no problems with the pre-reads at Ivies if it gets to that.
As far as timing, I’d really ask the coaches about their timelines and when they make those decisions. What she should be listening for in the response is not a general rule but how they’re responding to her asking the question. She’ll be able to infer some things from that about the likely level of interest and how long she might have to wait.
I used to be pretty confident saying Ivies are making the bulk of these decisions over the summer and into the fall for men, and only after an OV in most cases. Recruiting classes for women have tended to coalesce a bit earlier because the growth curve is often flatter late in HS. My impression is that a lot of this is shifting earlier but it’s somewhat program dependent. Maybe others with athletes in these programs or more recent experience can help with a typical timeline. I’m guessing Harvard, Princeton, and probably Penn already have their priorities largely figured out for women.
As for lukewarm interest, sometimes lukewarm can get hot pretty fast and it’s just a function of attention/bandwidth. Many of the D1 programs are at regionals this week, then nationals, time off, getting back to the office and focusing on recruiting.
As far as D1 vs. D3, I wouldn’t divide things up that way. Compare Colgate to Williams for example. Colgate’s fastest 1500 would be 6th fastest at Williams. Different story at Harvard though.
What I’d focus on is whether there’s a training group that fits and enough range on the top end to allow for the kind of working up the ladder you mention (and which I agree is important).
Another thing to keep in mind is that in college not everyone gets to compete. A lower level recruit at an Ivy might not get many chances and might be attending the conference meet as a spectator. This depends on the specific program though. Brown is different than Princeton or Penn.
I definitely wouldn’t encourage an athlete who could compete at the conference level at an Ivy to go to a NESCAC as it’d get pretty lonely during workouts. But for someone who would be on the bubble to compete consistently at an Ivy vs. a regular meet schedule and probably conference competitor at a D3 I’d probably prefer the latter if the school fit was right. It really just depends what she wants.
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My kid was recruited for T&F by the Ivy’s and other top D1s. They committed and received a Likely Letter and ran T&F at a top Ivy program.
NESCACS were not of interest for them so no first hand T&F NESCAC recruiting experience, though I am familiar with NESCAC recruiting for other sports from my other kids. If NESCACS were of interest I am fairly sure they would have gotten support.
I think we all understand that it depends on the school, which can vary greatly though in “general”, to be recruited to a top Ivy program, you have to be a very strong recruited athlete, that is athletically, where as NESCAC or D3s not quite as much athletically.
The Ivy’s only get so many LLs for T&F, so from what you described it sounds like they would have to get admitted on their own without support and may still be welcomed on the team.
For timing, we had interest going into Jr. year and it really picked up mid summer before Sr year. Official visits in the fall, decision to commit in the fall.
If they are high enough on the coaches list, a NESCAC coach may be willing to wait to see if they get into an Ivy, though you would have to discuss this with them.
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Thank you. This is super helpful and much appreciated.
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I will just add that it’s important to get clarification on this ahead of time. We know an athlete with this situation, with published walk on times, but the reality was the team was at capacity with faster athletes. It all worked out though because they walked on another sport where they quickly developed as a top player.
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With T&F, it’s also important to look at how many athletes a team usually carries at your events. Many schools recruit multiple distance and sprinters per year, but maybe bring in only 1-2 jumpers or throwers.
Regarding timing, coach support with admissions is usually given for ED/REA applications. Some coaches will still give support in RD, but would prefer to lock in recruits for ED. ED applications are usually due November 1 so prepare to have made a decision by then if given multiple offers. Pre-reads would be this summer followed by OVs in the early fall.
Good luck!
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This was our route, but having said that, stats and ECs were there, which made us and college counselor ok with that choice. The other part was being genuinely willing to “play down” (ie be a true impact player) at an otherwise great fit school where so coach was likely to offer support late in the game.
We just went through this, so feel free to PM me for a longer conversation. Daughter is now a senior and looked at NESCACs, IVYs, Patriot, plus Rice, Northwestern, JHU, CMS, and PP.
Timing: if she’s a top recruit for NESCACs, you should be prepared to make a commitment in early July. Last year was slightly easier b/c NESCAC pushed it back to August, which put it closer to the timing we saw with Ivys. PP and CMS were very early last year. Patriot league went into the fall, as did Rice. Northwestern was mid-summer.
Some questions: distance or sprints? It seems she is hoping for D1 even though, perhaps, some D3s could be more competitive than D1 for her. Does she know this? It’s ok if that’s her choice (a teammate of my daughters was determined to “go D1” even though the D1 she found the most traction with was less competitive (and less academically regarded) than several D3s. Just make sure she’s closing the doors on D3s knowing all this info.
We were told, and found it to be true, that Ivys want truly excellent athletes who are very good students. NESCAC is the opposite - truly excellent students who are very good athletes. So, generally, if you can pass a NESCAC preread, you should be fine academically at (nearly) any D1. The bigger question for Ivys is how excellent an athlete is she.
Truly, feel free to PM me. I found some private conversations with members here immensely helpful when I didn’t want to clog up the board with tons of little questions. Now I’m happy to pay it forward.
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My daughter went through the recruiting process for XC/Track last fall. This board was very helpful so I would love to pay it forward if you have any direct questions! She looked at D1 as well as the NESCACs and found her place. Don’t get overwhelmed by the process! My daughter learned so much through recruiting. She became more confident speaking with adults and truly surprised herself when it came down to what she wanted as a student-athlete. The school itself was very important to her. She had an offer from what she thought was her top pick and in the end - went in a different direction after doing official visits and looking more closely at schools. Again - feel free to reach out if you have any questions. I am happy to help!
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Agree 100%!
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Thank you! Sorry for being MIA on this thread that I started. Yes, she really wants D1 but I do worry about the timing and that she may have to give up a D3 offer to try to wait for a D1 and then could be left with nothing come mid fall. She is distance.
Not in every sport, but generally D3 recruiting is behind D1. There is always a little shuffling that happens both with the athletes who do very well during the state championships as juniors and the coaches who are finalizing their lists, but there are many who are locked in early in junior year.
I don’t think she’ll be missing a chance at a D3 while waiting for D1 schools. If she has a lot of interest from D1 coaches, she’ll feel more comfortable waiting. If not too much interest, she may want to move on to D3.
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If
If she’s potentially a D1 caliber runner, I think most D3 schools would be willing to wait. Most schools bring in multiple distance runners every recruiting cycle so they could potentially hold a spot for her. If an D3 offer comes, be upfront about the situation and ask if you can have an extended decision timeframe.
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It depends on the D1 and D3 we are talking about. Ivies will recruit first. It’s ok to ask the coach where they are with their rosters.
We didn’t string coaches along and were fairly transparent with where we were and when we felt we could make a decision (after last OV). For the most part this worked well. Having said that, we were not holding out for a pipe dream and by the end of the summer we had a pretty decent idea of where we stood with the coaches. Ultimately, there were two offers that did not materialize but all the others that we thought would, did.
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