Truth. I once spent a January in Vermont (doing dissertation research, so mostly inside), and it didn’t top 10 degrees the entire time. I’m used to cold climates, but that was when I learned that it was possible for one’s nose to freeze shut! 
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A student may not realize how hard it is to make the contribution delta. If you are serious about them paying, you need to show what that entails 12 week summers, x $ an hour, don’t forget SSI and Medicare tax that they don’t get back.
If you want to look at wealth, one way is to see how many get need aid.
At Carleton, 293 of 518 first years got an avg grant of $66.7k .
At Midd, 262 of 634 for an avg of $62.7k.
Vassar was 370 of 701 for an average of $67.2k.
People say kids at Midd may not show wealth and perhaps it’s true. But there’s a lot higher percentage of full pay kids there, well over half.
While niche isn’t scientific, 18% of the 34 surveyed called Midd elitist. Neither Carleton or Vassar had words tied to wealth in their top 3. Vassar and Carleton were more artsy (Bassar)/quirky as a stand out.
Maybe your student should ask to speak to a student at each this week as a validation.
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I don’t think we can ask him to pay the full 7k, but we would set some clear expectations. He already has a job and is earning and saving, so he’s doing ok.
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I dont think Midd is regarded as being intolerant of differing views.
Re the cold, my child attended college in Maine. Her two BFF’s were from Florida and Hawaii, so kids get used to it. All three of those colleges will be cold in winter and I am guessing he knows that.
I have no direct experience with Midd, but I think it is considered as slightly more sporty than the other two. If that matters to him. I really don’t think it has an elitist vibe.
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I will add that Middlebury’s new president is getting rave reviews from students, faculty, and alumni. He’s made some tough decisions (like sunsetting the Middlebury Institute in Monterey next year), and is focused on closing a small budget deficit that the college has carried for years.
Interestingly, Carleton’s president used to be provost at Middlebury, where she taught for 24 years.
And having a gut feeling that you belong somewhere is a good indicator that you probably do.
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There were times I felt out of place at college due to finances but hey, guess what- that’s also life in the workplace. My first job I was carefully timing it so I could eat breakfast AND lunch at the company cafeteria (heavily subsidized) while co-workers would be rolling in with take-out meals and going out to fun restaurants every day at lunch. My first job out of B-school (where the entire cohort was paid the same salary- so 70 people, all in the same theoretical income bracket– and I was making 3X what I’d made previously AND in a lower COL city) and I was driving an 11 year old junker and paying off my B-school loans while some were spending long weekends in exotic resorts.
I’m not preaching some puritan ethic- but the discipline of enjoying what I had and taking advantage of what I could afford has lasted my entire adulthood. Someone always has nicer toys, a bigger house, is hiring a decorator while you’re sitting on the floor putting together a dining table from Ikea. No matter how successful you are- someone always has more and that’s OK.
If your SON thinks it will be alienating to be at a college with financial aid surrounded by other kids who are full pay- I’d pay attention to that. But if he’s comfortable in his own skin, is happy to find affordable entertainment and not succumb to “Hey, let’s head to Aruba for spring break, aren’t you tired of the cold?” then I don’t think you need to worry about it.
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I am a mountain person myself so I totally get where your son is coming from. Vermont is a really special state. I live in the west now, but grew up going to Vermont a lot, as well as Maine. While the mountains may not be as big as the Rockies, I feel the people in Vermont are equally as outdoorsy and have a certain appealing “vibe” unlike most of the east coast.
Because of this, Middlebury attracts a certain kind of kid. In some ways the student body self selects for kids who really like the mountain environment and who might not mind roughing it a bit, whether it be participating in outdoor activities, or just living in a remote part of the country that is cold and snowy a lot of the year. Even in there is a lot of wealth at Middlebury, it isn’t going to be the flashy, night life seeking, spa-going, glamour type of wealth you might be envisioning. The town is really small too, so it’s not like kids are going to be ordering Uber Eats all the time.
All this to say, I wouldn’t let the worry about being around a lot of wealth play much in this decision.
I feel like if you can pull it off financially, and his heart is telling him Middlebury, trust his gut.
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We just got back from touring Middlebury, Bowdoin, Haverford, and Vassar with my son (outdoorsy, liberal, not from New England). We were on each campus for like 3 hours total, so this is just one random impression.
Middlebury: preppiest campus we visited. The dads on the tour wore blue blazers, navy blue half zips, polo, Patagonia. The I’m running for student govt posters all featured kids in blue blazers. Everyone presenting at the campus science fair was sporting, you guessed it, some combination of navy blue and khaki. Is your son ok w the cold? Because it was puffer weather in VT still. I think if you love the outdoors then you would love Midd. But if you are not outdoorsy it might not be your scene?
Mentioned on tour/info session: dining hall that looked like a ski lodge, students doing study abroad at St Andrews (“you can play golf there”), Oxford, Bordeaux. Even though there is no business major, we still place well for consulting and finance. Friend who did Feb start and spent fall term skiing in Aspen. Camping in the Adirondacks. The local ski hill where you can ski everyday in Jan. The on campus ski shop where you can get your skis tuned and waxed. It becomes a bike shop in spring. The Jan term course on colonialism that involved 2 weeks in VT, one week in Germany, one week in Namibia. Double majors in Econ and poli sci.
Did my son see his people on campus (thrift store, curly hair, alternative t-shirt folks)? Yes. Did he love the nearby rivers , mountains, streams? Definitely. Also liked the emphasis on study abroad and languages
But it would be more difficult to get to for sure, in terms of flying in. Also harder to get to a major city. Montreal a 2 hr drive, Boston a 3 hr drive, not drives you want to do for many months of the year. As the parent of another kid at a different college who either has to take a non-direct flight to nearby airport or has a 3 hour schlep from major city to her campus, this is a consideration. My daughter has had flights canceled more than once because of weather and that is really no fun
Vassar:
Mentioned on the tour: class that involved studying invasive species at the Vassar reserve, another where they talked about the American prison system and met w local incarcerated individuals
Focus on community engaged learning. Internships you can do at the local hospital, local affordable housing grassroots organizations. 40% of students study abroad: sites mentioned were Argentina, Kenya, Tokyo, Australia
Some people can’t stand Poughkeepsie. I will say that it would be a) easier to travel to and b) considerably warmer during the winter compared to either VT or MN. Commuter train to Grand Central is like $20, runs every hour, 1.5 hours. You still have to take the Air Train out to JFK ( another hour, roughly) and this does involve walking, transferring, lugging a suitcase but it is not super difficult. Is proximity to NYC a plus or minus for your kid?
There is nature nearby aplenty-- hiking in the mountains, places to explore in the Hudson Valley, driving distance for the weekend to the Berkshires, VT, decent skiing even closer. But you are most certainly not right in the middle of nature as you would be in Middlebury. There is a Vassar reserve and when we were there they were advertising a group bike ride through the reserve, with stops to see the goats.
In short, Vassar seemed like it was not hurting for resources, like all of these schools, but not quite as preppy as Middlebury. Somewhat more artsy, emphasis on social issues but again I am wary of overgeneralizing a whole campus based on the two tour guides we happened to get that day
In terms of the wealth thing: I think in some ways all the campuses we saw were pretty similar. All had overrepresentation of students from NYC, DC, Boston, SF, LA. Some were more nerdy, some more outdoorsy, some were smaller or bigger but really they all felt like variations on a theme. Everyone seemed pretty happy, not too stressed, all looked like great places to get an education
Is it weird to send your kid to a place where they will meet people of the .01%? Um, yes. True story: a friend of mine had a kid who called her up 3 weeks in her first year at a college in New England and asked, “Mommy, do I have a trust fund?” To which my friend replied, “You have the opposite of a trust fund. It’s called a ‘student loan’” lol
But your kid will figure it out and will find his people at any of these schools. There will be rich kids and middle class kids and kids on full financial aid packages at all of these places—
The way I see it they will hopefully also meet cool artists and musicians and science nerds as well as people from different backgrounds.
In terms of financial aid: have you tried contacting school X and saying you are our first choice, but school Y gave us a better package, any chance you might be able to match that? Here is their offer. Worst thing that can happen is that they say no, but we did this with kid #1 and got a match one day later. We then followed up with an email-- is this guaranteed for 4 years? and got that pinned down as well. If the school knows they are competing with another one, they might just find some more resources, which would at least take that out of the equation.
Good luck! These are all such great schools!!!
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You’ll have to figure out the finances, and it couldn’t hurt to ask Midd if they can close the gap a bit.
These three schools are equals in terms of quality and reputation, so there is no bad choice.
I hear your concern about wealthy classmates at Midd, and if you’ve lived this yourself, I also understand why you are trying to steer your kid clear of it. With that said, your son will have no/low cost ways to enjoy the outdoors, and ime, there will be kids who delight in introducing him to new experiences. He will at times have to navigate wealth differences, whether it’s going out to eat or spring break plans, but he won’t be the only one taking a pass. LACs, as you know, tend to be low cost environments just because there aren’t a lot of ways to spend $. He may also have friends who invite him on their tab. (My college roommate was from a very well-to-do family who included me in their family ski vacations not just during college but for decades after!) College is a great time to try out a different region (which they’ll all be.) Hit the summer sales for winter clothing for any of these!
There’s also no assurance that he won’t end up with wealthy friends at any of the other schools. Friendships at this age are about shared interests and good company.
If you can swing it financially, I’d let him pick.
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I’m glad to hear the new president is well liked. I do think this stuff matters. Personally, I think I would not be worried about fit if he had visited when school was in session. He met what, 2 students? It wasn’t a clear picture. He met plenty of kids at Carleton and felt certain of the personality fit.
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I think a good point has been raised that the town itself isn’t much of a place to spend money. This does kind of help. Actually, Vassar could be more of an issue this way because it’s pretty easy to go into NYC, and money sure is easy to spend there.
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Yeah, but it’s just far enough that people aren’t going to NYC all the time. My sense is that 1-2x per semester is not unusual, but it takes a lot of time and money to get there more often than that, unless a student has family there (or is tagging along with a friend who does). I think that maybe sometimes classes or clubs organize NYC trips, too, but that’s only every once in awhile.
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Great reply–thank you. Re financial aid, we actually already appealed at Midd and they did improve the package, but I suspect that’s as far as it goes.
We didn’t mind Poughkeepsie at all. Proximity to NYC is a mild plus, and we have family within a 2-hr drive of Vassar, which is nice. Overall I feel Vassar is the best “compromise” match in many ways.
Your description of Midd isn’t helping too much, though! My son recently had his IB diploma pinning and we couldn’t find a pair of dress pants in his drawer, lol.
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Thank you for responding to my post.
I have enjoyed reading this thread.
The display of wealth at Middlebury College is real and can be a valid concern for some.
As this question remains unanswered in significant part, and as concern for display of wealth may be a valid concern for your son, and since COA is a matter of worry, and because your son had a positive visit while school was in session, Carleton College may be the best and safest option.
Again, Carleton College may be the best option.
@Parentof2023 : Loved reading your post. Brought back many memories. Thank you for sharing !
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Indeed. My D was invited to friend’s summer homes a few times. We own one house, but she came back from those trips having had a great time. What she didn’t feel was self-conscious that she hung out with a friend whose family was wealthier than her own.
My friend’s son is currently at a well known LAC out west. The friend took him and others to a beach front Hawaiian home on their private jet. The outcome was that they all had a great time.
If your son gets to have any experiences like that, it’s a bonus and a fun memory from college years.
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And I had the opposite experience. Invited many times to travel, friend’s second home in exotic locations, etc. but I had already committed to my HS job the weeks that I’d be back in town to take extra shifts. Even a “free trip” has costs (if you’re counting on the cash you’d be earning over winter break) but friends were very gracious and kind about the invitations and making clear that there would be no cash outlay. I did not find the experiences off-putting when I had to say “Thanks SO much, what a great invitation, I won’t be able to join you”.
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I’m enjoying this thread very much, possibly because I have no dog in this race. Though I’ve heard a lot about all three colleges over the space of the past 50 years, I’ve never set foot on any of them. So, every conversation adds to a preconception I already have. What stands out for me this time around?
- This thread deepens my understanding that the primary differences between SLACs are around the edges; all of them depend on high tuition to some extent and no one attends them without significant resources (either private or institutional.) What this means in practical terms is that you will find people from similar economic circumstances as yourself. You will have roommates; you will have lab partners; you will make friends with people in your suite, the suite upstairs, the suite downstairs. You will find your peep.
- This thread further cements my impression that what we often wind up discussing is something very vague; something people have come to refer to as “vibe”. It’s the “I can see myself here!” epiphany which is basically another way of saying the place is a reflection of how your kid sees themselves. What adults tend to forget is just how fungible all of that is between the ages of 18 and 28.
- Middlebury is demonstrably more preppy than even some of its athletic conference rivals. That impression hasn’t been dispelled by this thread. But that’s just a matter of vibe.
- I am familiar with the Hudson Valley; places like Cold Spring, Breakneck Ridge, Storm King Mountain are easy commutes for many NYC residents s. I’m assuming they are for Vassar students, too. But again, no one thinks of “outdoorsy” as Vassar College’s “vibe”.
- Personally, the comment that resonated the most with me was @MWolf’s,
“It (Middlebury) is also pretty isolated, and the vast majority of the people that a student will interact with are the other students at the college.”
I was a city kid who took a summer job at another rural NESCAC and I really felt like I needed to see a different face after just a few weeks, even if it was just a bus driver or cashier in a store. YMMV.
True, but Burlington,Vermont is just about 35 miles away if one needs a break from campus life. The drive is nice & easy.
Burlington is a great place for college students to visit as it is home to the University of Vermont.
In short, the concept of isolation/being isolated means different things to different individuals. To me, being on a campus with 2,700 intelligent, motivated peers from around the country in a quaint town with a great city just 45 minutes drive away is not isolation.
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This description of Middlebury rings true to me, but also there are definitely pockets of different communities at Midd. Since OP’s son was admitted that means Midd can see him as part of the community and succeeding there. We are from New England and have many Midd alum and current students in our circle. Kids we know there love it, including non-trust funders. Downhill skiing culture is a big thing at Midd. But one can easily avoid it if they wish to. It’s also true there is very little to spend money on at Midd and a student can learn to downhill skill for relatively little money there. New England is nothing if not flooded with extra ski equipment and outdoor clothing and he’d blend in perfectly outfitted that way. Nobody is flashy fancy on the slopes at the bowl or Mad River Glen. The vibes are decidedly “I’ve repaired my perfectly fine (30+ year old) ski pants with duct tape as any wise person would also do.” Good luck to OP’s son as he makes his decision! These are all great schools.
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Circling back to what I believe is the bottom line: these are all great schools. The OP’s son has a preference for one of them. Let him choose!
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