<p>@cosmicfish kudos to you </p>
<p>“I believe choices such as tattoos, colored hair, fake boobies etc say something about “character”. It doesn’t necessarily say something BAD about that character. That’s up to the beholder to decide. I certainly think my willingness to ink myself with something meaningful to me says something about my character- perhaps it is simply that doing that is more important to me than what others might think or what might be a career consequence. I greatly value fitness and health, and I will make a judgment about character if someone is obese and does not take care of his or her health.”</p>
<p>Right. And when someone upthread described a woman with implants, tight cheetah print pants, long nails out to there, and so forth … we all had a common reaction - which was a judgment. That she could have been the nicest and kindest person on the planet, but what she wore sent signals about who she was that were none-too-flattering. And I doubt you’d hire her for a receptionist job, at least not without a makeover. Maybe those signals were inaccurate, but they send signals. </p>
<p>Have you ever seen people with super-long nails – the kind that are so long that they impede being able to button clothing, etc.? Don’t you make a judgment on that? </p>
<p>I think <em>small</em>, more unobtrusive tattoos (like the rose on the ankle type of thing) have morphed more into “eh, oh, well, so common these days, personal taste” than years ago … Just like, for example, a guy wearing an earring was a big deal 20 years ago but not today … - but I’m not sure that larger, more visible, sleeve-or-similar type tattoos are there yet. </p>
<p>@Pizzagirl </p>
<p>Her pants weren’t cheetah…her tattoos were cheetah print on her waist/flank area. Along with the stamp on the lumbar region and the tear drops on her cheeks. And paws on her breasts…Just a bit much if you ask me…along with everything else she had going on…how was I able to see all of this? Because of her low slung, cleavage popping crop top. She also had tattoos in the lower region, but you get the drift…</p>
<p>Couldn’t she have toned it down for her DDs report card night? Just a little? She must have known that she was a conversation starter. No way on this green earth that she didn’t. </p>
<p>Well, ok. Is there anyone here who does <em>not</em> have a judgmental reaction to “cheetah print tattoos on waist, tramp stamp below, paws on breasts, and evidence of tattoos in lower region”? Because I call b.s. to the notion that some people are sooooooo enlightened they wouldn’t pass judgment. </p>
<p>To cosmicfish’s question above – “Does my having tattoos harm you in any way? Does it mean that I am incapable of being intelligent, or polite, or professional?” Certainly this woman’s tattoos don’t physically harm anybody, but yeah, it’s pretty much a red flag that she’s not professional, and <em>probably</em> not too intelligent or polite either. </p>
<p>Of course, before someone jumps the shark, no one is equating rose-on-the-ankle or half-moon-on-the-wrist with this.</p>
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<p>Terrific distinction. And depending on context, someone’s taste can be indicative of character. (And no, this isn’t saying everyone needs to walk around looking like clones and never show any hint of individuality or that there’s no room for personal expression, so don’t go there.) The woman referred to upthread who showed up at a school gathering dressed like that – that IS an indication of poor character. Same if she showed up at a funeral like that, or a job interview. Maybe at a nightclub it’s not a character indication.</p>
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<p>Oh yes, there is plenty of contradiction in your position. You expect people to not act on their opinion all the while reserving for yourself the right to judge their actions. Like it or not, but that is pretty much the narrative of overly obnoxious people who expect everyone else to accept their choices and lifestyle. </p>
<p>You are entirely right that you have the freedom to CHOOSE the way you present yourself, and be as creative as you want in terms of name, appearances, and image. The right you DO NOT HAVE is to expect that everyone will accept those choices and “overlook” them in professional settings, or even social settings. Of course, I suspect that the with the obvious obnoxiousness of the attitude comes the perennial “discrimination” card. </p>
<p>In the end, despite your claims to the contrary, you are just as judgemental as the ones who … cannot overlook the bodily desecrations. </p>
<p>Turn the tables around. If you were in a position to hire someone, and the preppy-looking Ivy League grad when asked what he thinks of managing punks and tattooed people answers that he does not like them a bit but might be able to work with them as long as they “behave” with clients … would you hire him if EVERYTHING else was superlative? Any chance you might think the Lil Rob Lowe does not fit your company environment? </p>
<p>“I think there is an important distinction between “tattoos” and “people with tattoos.” I don’t like tattoos, but I like plenty of people who have them - just isn’t a choice I’d make for me and myself. I don’t like SUVs either and wouldn’t ever buy one, but plenty of my friends have them and that’s fine. People with tattoos are, well, you know, people - some are good and some are bad. I don’t have to like their tattoos. Just like they don’t have to like my ring or necklace or handbag or shoes or haircut.”</p>
<p>this^ yes</p>
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The only actions I am judging are those actions taken to hurt people. If you can tell me who I am hurting, I will accept your judgments. And I do expect people to act on their opinions, because people are flawed, not perfect. But I see no reason to praise someone for harming someone else because they look different or because they made choices that in no way harmed anyone. I still do not see any contradiction here - perhaps someone else needs to explain it to me.</p>
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I am not asking anyone to overlook anything - I am asking for the respectful behavior that I think everyone is entitled to. I am not asking that in a professional setting anyone ignore the fact that I have tattoos, or be happy that I have them, or anything of that nature. I am asking that they do not change the way they interact with me as a professional based on the fact that I have tattoos, and I am not sure why that is a problematic thing to ask for. As for social settings, if you have a problem with my having tattoos then I cannot see why this would come up - we certainly would not be interacting very often if you see the tattooed as being repugnant.</p>
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First, I would probably not say “punks” - why would I use a prejudicial word in an interview? Second, it would depend a lot on HOW superlative, because he just admitted that he will probably have problems with his coworkers. If he had said “I might be able to work with women, so long as they do not dress or act like women” I would have problems as well. If he had said “I don’t like tattoos, but I will work with anyone who acts in a professional manner” I would have no problems with him. It was the “might” combined with the “behave” that is problematic, because it suggests that he not only expects his prospective coworker to misbehave but is unsure of his ability to work with them even if he doesn’t. Why would I hire that? If I was hiring someone with tattoos and they responded that way about people without tattoos, I would not hire that person either!</p>
<p>As a side note, Rob Lowe has at least one tattoo. So whoever this is, it isn’t Lil Rob Lowe.</p>
<p>The neighborhood you live in, your house, furniture, paint colors, cars, hair styles, hair color, clothing, piercings, makeup, job… Most everything is a temporary choice, one that may have been well considered, researched, thought about ahead of time, and can be changed.</p>
<p>Tattoos, implants, plastic surgery are pretty darned permanent, and as a reflection of character, say much more by simple virtue of their permanence. </p>
<p>A middle aged guy who researches, obsesses over, dreams of, and finally buys a flashy sports car is asking for attention, but sheesh, it’s just sort of cute (or sad) and a temporary thing. In a few years he’ll get tired of the car or realize it is terrible on ice or that it is h*** to climb in and out of, and buy something else. And a few years later the car becomes THE joke at Thanksgiving, and his kids poke fun about Dad’s Menopause Car for years. </p>
<p>But a tattoo is forever. Can you ever get enough emotional distance to admit it (or its size or its location) was an unfortunate choice? Are you ever able to laugh at it? </p>
<p>Having said that, I have some pieces of art and furniture that hold great personal meaning for me. Items that I have loved for 50 plus years, that I grew up with, that I inherited, and that, however the winds of change blow, will always be important and a part of my home and life. I bought a few pieces of art that will always hang in whatever home I own. If they were tattoos, I would proudly love them forever. </p>
<p>But I’ve also bought a lot of junk through the years, things that seemed lovely at the time, and finally went to the charity truck. Sometimes it takes ten or twenty years to recognize a classic/forever piece vs. a mauve nightmare. </p>
<p>What if the mauve nighmare was a tattoo?</p>
<p>I see no contradiction in your position, cosmic. It is one I agree with. </p>
<p>Unfortunately, eastcoastcrazy, you lost me there. </p>
<p>Is regret an end all be all? Are you not able to regret a facet of a decision but yet still overall enjoy it? I know some people with tattoos appreciate the fact that they’re able to look back at their tattoo and think of where they were mentally, physically, or emotionally at that moment. </p>
<p>So what I’m saying is not that I judge your pink ankle rose tattoo. I don’t know what it means to you. But I could never get a tatoo, because in the back of my mind I would wonder if, twenty years from now, it would be my permanent Menopause Car or Mauve Nightmare.</p>
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I am not sure - there are definitely lines that should not be crossed bringing sexuality into a school event, but I missed the original post and am having a hard time visualizing this. Regardless, the issue for me is not the implants or tattoos, but rather the sheer amount of skin being shown at what should be a relatively restrained event.</p>
<p>So let me ask this: If she lacked the tattoos, would her attire have been considered acceptable at a school event? Or was she doing her best Daisy Duke impression? If I showed up at school with a pair of tight leather pants and a bowtie, I do not think that my tattoos would really be the problem.</p>
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Why? Given your comments, you haven’t seen her or anyone like her in a professional environment, so why should you assume how professional she is? And why are you assuming she isn’t intelligent or polite? Did you talk to her?</p>
<p>This is beginning to sound like the dress code for parents thread. I think the problem there was that posters who couldn’t visualize it wanted to give the alleged offenders the benefit of the doubt. </p>
<p>“As a side note, Rob Lowe has at least one tattoo. So whoever this is, it isn’t Lil Rob Lowe.”</p>
<p>To co-opt the old saying about crackers, I don’t think I’d kick Rob Lowe out of bed for having a tattoo. See, I’m open-minded.</p>
<p>“So let me ask this: If she lacked the tattoos, would her attire have been considered acceptable at a school event? Or was she doing her best Daisy Duke impression? If I showed up at school with a pair of tight leather pants and a bowtie, I do not think that my tattoos would really be the problem.”</p>
<p>Well, who are you to be so judgmental about the Daisy Duke look? I thought you were all about the person, not their outward appearance. Isn’t that a little … judgmental?</p>
<p>“Why? Given your comments, you haven’t seen her or anyone like her in a professional environment, so why should you assume how professional she is? And why are you assuming she isn’t intelligent or polite? Did you talk to her?”</p>
<p>If she shows up to answer the want-ad for my receptionist job in that same get-up, I don’t grant her an interview. I don’t care if she hands me her resume and it says Phi Beta Kappa at Harvard. Being tacky and trashy is not a protected class. </p>
<p>Now who is really jumping the shark? This thread keeps looping. cosmic has repeated over and over that he judges. Everyone judges. Judging is nothing to be ashamed of. The distinction cosmic made was when people harmfully act on their judgements when the subject is not harming anyone. </p>
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Duly noted.</p>
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It all goes back to harm - over-sexualizing either gender is not good for kids and therefore not good for an environment with lots of kids. Like a school event. If she was wearing that in a different situation I wouldn’t care.</p>
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Sure, but what if you see her socially in that get-up and then she shows up for the interview in professional attire? Would she still be “tacky and trashy”? My point was that you are seeing her dressing inappropriately in a social situation and then assuming that she would therefore dress inappropriately in a professional situation, and I have seen that go either way enough that I would not want to place a bet on her professionalism.</p>
<p>" if someone is obese and does not take care of his or her health. Might they be a wonderful, kind person? Of course! I have obese friends who I adore, but, frankly, I would never hire them." </p>
<p>I get that idea and don’t necessarily disagree with it, but the truth is, as a business owner, if I came to you seeking legal counsel , I would absolutely judge you if you had visible tattoos and not hire you. You might also judge me , based on my casual appearance of generally wearing jeans , tees and birkenstocks…you would never guess that, based on my appearance that I show up a the bank with large sums of cash that require fling of paperwork that complies with federal banking standards. I look like the job I do, not more , not less.
But I want our attorneys that range in expertise of corporate liability, tax , personal also and specializing in real estate to command power and look the part. I want them to command respect in all spectrums and courtrooms…if I question their appearance, then so will others and that’s not a chance I am willing to take.</p>
<p>I’ve had the good fortune to meet and interview some people who made it through the most horrific of circumstances.One was a Holocaust survivor and another other was a young man who by all rights shouldn’t have even been born and grew up being treated as less than nothing. Both became successful in their own right. When asked how they looked back on their past, both told me that they would change nothing, because what they experienced made them who they became.</p>
<p>I’ve tried to live that way-whether we’re talking tattoos or job choice or parenting decisions. Naturally I have not always been success-making choices with no regrets, but I can’t imagine being so afraid of regretting something 30 years down the road that I won’t even try. We never know what is around the next corner for us. I don’t regret my two tattoos, and when I am old and they are wrinkled, I will look back with a smile at the way I wanted to step out of my comfortable box when I was young.</p>
<p>lje- I work in-house so the clients are stuck with me! I have worked in a variety of industries and small tattoos have never been a problem in any of them. Also, mine are not visible in most business wear. I often have pants and long sleeves because I tend to get cold. Summer- more showing of the tattoos. Simply has never been an issue.<br>
Jeans and Birkies sounds like my preferred dress, so I doubt I would be judging you for that. </p>
<p>When I make a commitment to something I stick to it.
I met my H when I was 18 & we are still together almost 40 years later.
A tattoo isnt as much work!</p>