<p>NEmom, I also know teachers who actually make less in public school than they do in private- certainly when you include benefits per hour, but they have much more autonomy, smaller classes and of course they usually have enough supplies and textbooks as opposed to public districts who will spend millions to replace buildings 20 or 30 years old, but will “study” which textbooks to adopt for years, until they finally find one that offends ( and teaches) no one.</p>
<p>“a private school could pay more than a public, but guess what, in special ed it can be done”</p>
<p>Actually what is surprizing is a private school that supports special ed… that is very rare indeed. My wife spent her first seven years teaching special ed and all respects to your friend, it is not an easy thing to do.</p>
<p>While I am generally a teacher supporter I do feel that certain adjustments should be made for pay- math and science for example. I do believe in supply and demand. I have no problem if a math teacher can demand 100k while a art teacher may have to satisfied with 40k.
I do get frustrated when misinformation gets tossed around about teachers and government workers and is stated as fact.</p>
<p>Opie, She tells me that there is a current shortage of special ed teachers (in particular, male special ed teachers). The private school is probably under pressure to provide testing, and they have access to county funds to help pay her salary. I guess they keep the students found to have a learning disability who began at the school before the disability was discovered. Maybe they access whether they can teach new potential students with certain disabilities at this private school, but I am not sure. She did come across a deal that she could not turn down, especially since her children may attend tuition free.</p>
<p>I agree that is uncommon Opie- although I will qualify that by saying that it is much more common at least in our area to find schools that can serve students of average or above intelligence, but who also have learning or other disabilties in the private sector as in the public it doesn’t seem to be acknowledged that it exists, but the schools in the private sector that serve students with more severe challenges, are more scarce in the private sector. They are few and far between, very expensive but not really appropriate for all students.
( Of course I have been hearing so many scare stories about self contained SPED, that I am wondering if the public schools are the appropriate place to serve these students- I agree that they need to be educated but it isn’t uncommon for teacher aides or substitutes to be in charge of classrooms, and aides and substitutes don’t even have to have SPED background to be hired- these students even more so than “regular” students, need professionals in charge, not aides who are overworked and overwhelmed and undertrained)</p>
<p>Ek, That would never happen in our area. An aide cannot be the teacher. They are only used to support a sped student.</p>
<p>well theoretically that is how it is supposed to happen, however, the sped teachers take frequent vacations and when they do the aide is in charge.</p>
<p>There may have been a substitute requested for the classroom but they didn’t show.</p>
<p>Hi em and north, </p>
<p>Yea special ed is a burn out career for so many, that is why there is a shortage of people who want to teach it. First your dealing with three times the normal amount of paperwork (failure of which is fineable to the sd) that eats time and energy. Then you have in some cases “kids” that can be physically so much bigger and stronger than the educator that safety sometimes is at risk. Thus the need for other adult bodies aides in those classrooms. My spouse is 5’2" and even today some of her third graders are taller, back then in her elementary special ed class, kids might be 6’ and 250lbs, and pretty difficult to control if they got upset.</p>
<p>For new teachers special ed spots are just as hot as math and sciences. actually moreso. It’s always been that way. Back in the day, my wife’s student loans were eaten by the government because she went into special ed. I think they still do. </p>
<p>Em no telling what seattle does, no doubt they put whomever they can inthere because that’s just one of those tough jobs out there where it is unusual to see someone with more than 10 years experience still doing it. </p>
<p>This is one of those areas where when people say america doesn’t educate I disagree. America tries to educate everybody, even those whose highest attaintable skills might be a dishwasher at a hospital. We do more, for more than any other country… we try harder for more people where other places institutionalize those bellow the norm… the today show this morning showed an eastern european country and how they handle special ed… It looked like dachau.</p>
<p>I know that collective bargaining doesn’t allow for jobs to determine pay, but since proportionally SPED teachers make up smaller portion of union, their class sizes were expanded and groupings of students mixed, with the last contract in order for changes that “supposedly” benefitted all teachers.</p>
<p>If a student has limited mobility, and one has limited ability to vocalize, they are in same class, even if one can barely communicate and the other is the president of his class.
THat doesnt’ make sense.
I have been involved with the SPED pta for a while because I knew that the parents of SPED students, really do not have time or energy to be involved outside their childs school, but it is pretty frustrating, there is a belief in the district that special ed students are taking money away from other students, whereas where I sit, it seems that the reverse is true.
That while a few students with extraordinary needs are making extraordinary demands, those are the ones who make the papers, but other students, who still bring in IDEA money, are not having their needs met & mainly it seems because principals who don’t necessarily have training in writing budgets or in SPED are expected to do both.
I have hopes for the new superintendent though- I think she is pretty on top of things and she has some background in SPED.</p>
<p>Things are being taken out of context. And unfortunately also things being taken personally. But I guess that’s the way its going to be. Some of what I said was in response to Sac’s daughter’s situation or her comments. None of this is meant to be personal.</p>
<p>I am delighted that you have found 49 out of 50 teachers to be good. That is certainly not the case in most schools.</p>
<p>When I stated that doctors and lawyers can be chosen, and teachers cannot, that is a fact. There are teachers who are so awful that the entire class would like to be moved. Obviously that will not be happening. There are teachers who insult and humilate kids, or target all the boys or all the girls. It is very hard to bring a complaint against a teacher, and most parents shy away from it because of repercussions.</p>
<p>My mother was a teacher for 40 years. I have taught, as well as been an aide in the classroom, where I have witnessed some of these behaviors.</p>
<p>So while your wife/daughter/sister/friend may be a teacher to be proud of, there are some who don’t even come close. I speak from experience, just as you do.</p>
<p>And why do people automatically think that students who get "A"s think the world of their teachers, while those who get "D"s hate the teacher for being an awful one.</p>
<p>I have children who have gotten straight As, and we have certainly had more than a handful of not-fit-to-be teachers.</p>
<p>I am not bashing the profession. There have been many wonderful teachers in our lives. Surely you can also admit that there are too many awful teachers.</p>
<p>chocoholic, I agree with everything that you just posted. I also have not found 49 out 50 teachers to be good. I have come across some excellent teachers, some poor teachers, and some mediocre teachers through my childrens’ experiences. I have found the same to be true with the administrators.</p>
<p>I agree- a bad teacher is hated by A students as much as by D students. </p>
<p>OTOH, it is a rare student that loves the teacher who gives him/her a D.</p>
<p>My experience teaching (elementary/rural/public/multi-racial/poverty…) was that there IS merit reward, but not in the form of a paycheck.</p>
<p>On this faculty, there was continuous games-manship to ensure that the principal saw extra effort occurring. That is no different than any other corporate workplace. </p>
<p>The merit rewards came in the form of informal perks that were worth MORE than money. They made one’s day more bearable, for example: the most veteran teachers got the Teacher Aides they wanted, leaving the new aides or established zanies for the newest teachers. They got their “duty-free half hour lunch” at noon, not at 10:30 a.m. or 1:25 p.m. Their kids were scheduled for the year with “specials” (Gym, Art, Music) at the very end of the day, so the kids were fresh academically for the hard work of learning to read and write in the morning. Etc. </p>
<p>The best teachers requested and received placement in the classrooms where the sun rose not in the children’s faces every morning or the roof didn’t leak.</p>
<p>When the yearly schedule of “preparation time” came out every fall, sure enough the “best” teachers all had the same periiod off together, so that they could meet and share resources optimally, participate in pilot programs, share ideas with the principal and so on. They got better and better! </p>
<p>Although I worked ceaselessly as a new and middling teacher, often the only car on the parking lot when I left, I never wanted “merit pay” once the NCLB began to make waves throughout the school.</p>
<p>I realized that the same cabal of veteran teachers ALSO got the best students, and there are a thousand ways that happens, too, some parent-initiated, some teacher-initiated. </p>
<p>I reasoned: if my “product” is the advancement of my students’ scores, if I’d be measured by my students’ achievements, I don’t want to play that game.
It would be supremely unfair because the best students went to the most cultivated handful of teachers, who enjoyed the best rooms, best aides, best everything.</p>
<p>I admired that inner circle of perk-rewarded teachers, but I am certain we worked equally hard. The only thing that kept my envy in check was that the paycheck rewarded us on the same basis. If they got merit salary, on top of all those perks, I just don’t think I could bear it as a “middling” teacher (very good, but not the best). I don’t think I’d ever get into that inner circle, no matter how hard I worked, because I didn’t begin my career at that school at age 23. </p>
<p>My first year there, I earned $100 bonus from the superintendent for “Perfect Attendance.” (Yes, I’m a dork.) I didn’t even know there was such a pot of gold at the end of that rainbow. My motivation to come in when not feeling l00% was it was easier to teach than to set up substitute plans and deal with all the negativity the following day from kids upset to have had a substitute.
The next year, the new collective bargaining agreement eliminated that bonus; the teachers themselves didn’t want it. Oh well. I didn’t achieve a year of perfect attendance inspired by a lousy $100. I’m not 16 years old.</p>
<p>I have a feeling that the much-vaunted “merit pay” would be paltry amounts, like $100 for a year of perfect attendance (value to district: saved $850 on substitute teacher pay @ $85/day). Competition for merit pay would make the interpersonal situation with favored teachers even more unbearable for the middlers like me.</p>
<p>Rather than merit pay, give what teachers really want, which is dignity, respect and appreciation on a day-by-day basis from parents and administrators. That’s worth more than bonus pennies for “merit”–and I just feel the amounts will more resemble the “$100 perfect attendance” than the thousands given in business for high-achieving, go-getter workers. </p>
<p>You tell me, because I don’t know, but are you imagining “teacher merit pay” in the thousands? I doubt it very much.</p>
<p>Opie, I’m on your side in this discussion but this quote of yours needs some editing:</p>
<p>"We do more, for more than any other country… "</p>
<p>Not than Canada! :)</p>
<p>How much should the teachers get paid? They work from Sept to June all weekends off summer off too. Hours are 8-2 or 3 or 4. Lunch and breaks. Full benefits and total job protection ( unions ) regardless of performance.
So what do you think the salary number should be? $100k or $150K or maybe $200K plus benefits?</p>
<p>And many tutor at the rate of 50 to 60 dollars an hour! Lets not forget vacations during the school year- Christmas, Easter, and a few shorter ones.</p>
<p>“there is a belief in the district that special ed students are taking money away from other students, whereas where I sit, it seems that the reverse is true.”</p>
<p>I would agree with your view on this. </p>
<p>“mainly it seems because principals who don’t necessarily have training in writing budgets or in SPED are expected to do both.”</p>
<p>Again total agreement, coupled with the sheer volume of paperwork required.</p>
<p>"I have hopes for the new superintendent though- I think she is pretty on top of things and she has some background in SPED. "</p>
<p>I hope so too, we have one now up here who is a far better listener than a talker… if you know what I mean…very nice dedicated guy who works his tail off… while taking very little credit for it. It’s nice to have someone to praise that doesn’t praise themselves first. </p>
<p>the ville used to be known for it’s sped programs, I think it is still pretty good, not as intouch with it as I used to be. We have a few who have been doing it their whole careers around 30 years. Good people make good programs. </p>
<p>good luck down there…</p>
<p>"We do more, for more than any other country… "</p>
<p>Not than Canada! </p>
<p>That’s Ok don’t cha know my wife’s from Chilliwack BC… and I guess I’d agree with alot of that maybe I should include Canada? 
Want me to rant about something hands down canda does better? parks and playfields awsome simply awsome… we could take a lesson in the ability to keep kids and adults fit from you folks up north. Now if we can just you guys to stop smoking so much… Nothing’s better than a family get together in Chilliwack but lately it’s been for services… I love the canadian side of my family…</p>
<p>"I also have not found 49 out 50 teachers to be good. "</p>
<p>I guess you all should move to my district </p>
<p>HEY, nobody and I mean nobody has the eye of the “missus” when it comes to walking into a classroom and being a “parent” on the parent teacher… You’d think you’d see her picture next to “critical eye” in wickapedia… </p>
<p>We don’t give a free pass to anybody who taught our kids. We went to everything, met every teacher, every year all the way up to graduation. My wife could go into a room look it over talk for a few minutes and combined with what we saw in lesson plans figure that teacher out pretty well. </p>
<p>I am not saying we didn’t have a poor one here or there, but yes the vast majority did their jobs very well. We had a few differences but mostly in style… a couple of the elementries were far too pleased with our “weasles” than we were. </p>
<p>A couple middle school teachers just seemed worn out. But in their defense junior high as it was called in the old days is dante’s hell. I know how I was…</p>
<p>HS all but one were very good. excellent in english, math and sciences… The one that was bad to us alot of other people thought was wonderful… so that was partly my point, your bad is usally somebody else’s good…</p>
<p>I guess the one thing we did when elvaluating a teacher is we also looked at ourselves. Could we be wrong? NAAAW, never happens, we’re always 100% right in our views as they are the only way… </p>
<p>Also when we disagreed and there were some of those, my wife could make her point professionally and in a friendly way that a newer teacher wouldn’t take offense to… we always let our educators know “we” (them and us) were a team to improve our kids. Most educators in our kids lives embraced that relationship…</p>
<p>Both mine ended up in good places and had excellent experiences. However, I’m sure it wouldn’t be hard to find a different pov about the same people…</p>