<p>I haven’t read every post here. But my 2 c’s: college age kids know what it means to “drink responsibly”, as do most of us—intellectually. They just don’t have any interest in it. The drinking culture now is to get as blotto as possible, and if you are not, then to pretend you are (especially if you are a girl). My D told me the other day that her friends did not want to go to the movies last weekend because they didn’t have any money left over-- they needed to budget for the liquor they were buying for the weekend, which was apparently the priority. The weekend starts on Thursday. </p>
<p>There are so many problems in these attitudes toward alcohol I don’t even know where to begin. But for girls, it seems to be inextricably tied up with sex. </p>
<p>It comes down to personal responsibility. I don’t believe the way to encourage or teach that is to teach your kid to drink. Unless he/she really has alcoholic tendencies, it’s not really about alcohol, but about self worth, personal integrity and strength of character, and most importantly, being comfortable with who you are. Those kids who grow up feeling valued and respected are less likely to bow to peer pressure. Even at college, when there is no parent around, those kids are less likely to be repetitive binge drinkers. They might go overboard once or twice, but quickly realize that they don’t like the loss of control. The problem with kids who like the binge drinking is because they LIKE that loss of control, because then they are not responsible for their actions. </p>
<p>I’m not sure why this particular brand of immaturity is so prevalent these days. I would have never imagined this scene could be possible. During my college days, getting high seemed so “enlightening”. (I know, I know, another delusion.) But this self-obliteration urge is something else. Of course, it has always existed but it wasn’t the norm, where even middle-of-the-road types do it.</p>
<p>“Well, it seems one of these posters might be wrong. If someone is deliberately downing enough drinks to maintain an alcoholic high for the entire evening, then one does indeed have “the purpose and design of getting intoxicated”.”</p>
<p>Of course alcohol can be abused. However, alcohol can be enjoyed without drinking to excess and without the purpose, design and effect of getting intoxicated. That’s what responsible drinking is about. Can’t say the same about recreational drugs - the only reason to ingest them is to get high. The difference should be obvious to anyone who has observed both behaviors.</p>
<p>I agree. I’ve noticed that there is a range of inclinations when it comes to alcoholic tendencies. There are people who will never become drinkers even if they grow up in a house full of drinkers and alcohol and a permissive atmosphere. Parents of those types of children think that it is because of their childrearing techniques (like “teaching” your kid to drink) that their kids don’t become problem drinkers. Like most nature/nurture questions, I think we parents take too much credit (and too much blame) for how our children turn out. Obviously, how we raise our children and the values we try to instill in them matters, but when it comes to alcoholism, I think brain chemistry is potentially more influential.</p>
<p>Do you get “buzzed” over one glass of wine during an hour and a half dinner? How about if smoking 1 joint over an hour and a half dinner? Which is just part of social relaxing and the enjoyment of the taste without any impairment and which involves getting high? I am not saying that alcohol is not a drug but, c’mon, you can teach a kid about making responsible decisions to avoid get intoxicated or impaired from alcohol but there ain’t no such state of existence when it comes to the use of recreational drugs.</p>
<p>Well, yes, but how does the method suggested in the original post teach those particular lessons?</p>
<p>BTW, w/reference to the last sentence in post 82: I’m 57. I went to college in a state that had a drinking age of 18, in one of the biggest hippie/lefty college towns in the US. I assure you I have “observed” both alcohol and recreational drug use.</p>
<p>I completely agree with China and others that parents have the right–the obligation–to raise their children themselves. But China asked for opinions and debate, and that is what I’m offering. I doubt that I’ve convinced anyone, but that won’t keep me up tonight.</p>
<p>“China, I don’t know why you think you need to knock back on every volley.”</p>
<p>Well actually, I started the thread looking for debate - and I’ve gotten it. I enjoy this type of discussion. What’s wrong with “knocking back on every volley?” I’m finding it interesting.</p>
<p>I’m sure midmo is right: None of the posters here are going to be convinced by anything stated by someone else. That’s not what I’m trying to do. I’m just stating my views and my experiences. That’s sort of what these forums are all about. Like midmo, this won’t keep me up tonight.</p>
<p>A question for the parents who are against “teaching” responsible drinking…So you’re comfortable with your children learning about drinking from their peers? </p>
<p>Let’s be honest: teens aren’t stupid (I’d know, I’m still one until next month). They can see through any scare-tactics, and they won’t avoid drinking simply because they were scolded to do so. So who do they turn to? Their peers. And if that doesn’t scare you then you need some serious help.</p>
<p>Teens always have and always will drink, have sex, experiment with drugs, etc etc. That’s not to say all will; there will be plenty who abstain…But it’s THEIR choice, not their parents’. Simply saying ‘Don’t’ is naive and puts them in danger, because then they will turn to sources of information that might be less than stellar. Would you rather your children be safe, though participating in actions you may disagree with, or be in extremely risky/dangerous situations?</p>
<p>We have offered our college kids “sips” of whatever we’re drinking when our kids were teens. They have never been interested & still aren’t very. We drink very little & not very often anyway. My D & I prefer “virgin” blended drinks, that are more like dessert than anything else (D says alcohol is “nasty” tasting). Not sure what S drinks but suspect he is very careful & limited about what he imbibes since he & D really like “being in control” and have little/no respect for folks that are “blotto” or otherwise “out of it.” S is also very frugal and doesn’t like spending money. Neither of them have indicated any fondness for the taste of alcohol & it has been available in our home. Both kids have always disliked even prescription meds that don’t allow them to feel in total control & find it amazing that folks will pay good money to feel that way.</p>
<p>Of course, I could be very wrong, but I seriously doubt it.</p>
<p>See, this is what older siblings are perfect for.</p>
<p>I think I’ve repeated it in another thread, but I have a younger brother, and our family is incredibly susceptible to depression, manic depression, and clinical anxiety disorders. I didn’t feel like the “Uh… so… stuff happens in college, and… so… watch out for boys and be careful…” advice that I got from my dad when I was dropped off my freshman year was particularly helpful, so I took it upon myself to give some essential guidelines to my brother regarding alcohol consumption when he went away to college.</p>
<p>“If you’re going to drink in college,” I said, and he interrupted me.
“I’m not going to drink in college.”
“Okay, but IF you do…”
“I’m not going to drink.”
“No, that’s fine, I understand. But in the possible case that you DO…”
“But I won’t.”
“Right. You won’t drink. But if, in a hypothetical situation, some college student similar to you were to DECIDE to drink in college, here are some base rules, so just humor me for a minute.”</p>
<p>I told him that it was really easy to get into trouble with alcohol if you have a susceptibility to the sorts of illnesses that run in our family, and that we’d both exhibited some symptoms of in the past. I told him never to drink alone. I told him never to drink when he was upset, angry, or sad. I told him never to drink to get drunk, that this was a stupid and dangerous waste of alcohol, and to not push his limit. (…and that the one time that he inevitably ended up going way too far, that he needed to drink a tall glass of water before he conked out, and that he’d feel terrible the next day, and to call me to tell me I was right.) I told him to NEVER drive after drinking or ride with someone who’s been drinking; plan to stay put, and if I ever found out he broke that one, I’d flat-out kill him. I told him that if he ever felt like he NEEDED alcohol, that he had a problem and he’d need to come talk with me about it.</p>
<p>Our parents didn’t know that I talked with him, and they didn’t ask me to talk with him, but I’m glad that I did. He immediately found that my advice was useful when dealing with his friends who <em>did</em> drink, and he learned how to watch out for their well-being. When he finally did decide to try alcohol about six months into college, it was during things like wine and cheese parties. He ended up being a bartender at their on-campus bar, and is now bartending for fun in grad school. He’s a connossieur of rare beers, brews his own microbatches at home (they’re good, too!), has learned to cook exceedingly well and pair wines with good food, and can appreciate the difference between 16-year-old and 24-year-old Scotches. (His personal bar contains things like Glenlivet and Balvenie single-malts and is completely devoid of things like McCormick’s plastic-bottle tequila and flavored vodkas… Good man!) My husband and I love wine pairings, and we love putting together flights of wine when we host dinner parties.</p>
<p>And now the tables have turned, and we’ve discovered that our parents know nothing about decent wines and beers, and so we took it upon ourselves to show our dad that he didn’t like beer because all he ever had was Dos Equis… We poured him something Belgian and his jaw dropped. Now we’re the ones who take our dad out to nice restaurants and chat up the sommelier. Our dad knows what “tannins” are, and knows that there’s more to life than merlots, and we’re very proud that he’s finally become responsible with alcohol. ;)</p>
<p>Alcohol isn’t a dangerous, evil thing. It can be a wonderful social and culinary experience. I think in vilifying alcohol in general, parents might end up sounding hypocritical… It’s okay for me but not for you, that sort of thing. Alcohol’s just something to be respected, and not to be treated casually. There are rules for being safe with it.</p>
<p>So for the undecideds… I don’t know what to do with your firstborn other than hope that they turned out to have good heads on their shoulders, but if you’re worried about a younger kid and they have a good relationship with their older sibling, this is really what big brothers and big sisters are made for. It gives an important message the air of experience without the youth-percepted preachiness of adulthood, and you don’t have to give the “we as parents do not condone the usage of alcohol below the legal drinking age at any time and for any reason” line after everything you say on the subject. :)</p>
Teaching responsible drinking doesn’t need to involve the kid actually drinking. It doesn’t need to be comprised exclusiveley of ‘scare tactics’ either. It’s possible to teach the intelligent kid the facts behind drinking alcohol, what can happen if it’s done to excess, what ‘excess’ actually is, and what the real consequences can be. It can even include the typical results, generally benign, of one having only a glass of wine or single beer with dinner. But that’s not really what we’re referring to here with college kids drinking purposely to excess.</p>
<p>And actually kids can learn from their peers but they can do so again without actually ingesting the alcohol themselves. They can see what some of their acquaintances are like when they have too much to drink. They can see them slur their speech, be unable to walk in a straight line, make poor judgments when they had too much, see them puking all over themselves and anything else in the way, see them passed out, and sometimes see them hauled off to the hospital in an ambulance, and sometimes much worse. I’ve known kids who could see some of their peers behaving this wasy and themselves being able to make an intellectual decision to not behave the same way. Of course, some see it and want to emulate it but not everyone behaves that way.</p>
<p>"The link in post #60 is nothing but a chart. There is no explanation of how the research, if it even qualifies as such, was done.</p>
<p>Nonetheless, let us assume for the sake of argument that the number 90% is an accurate reflection of the percentage of teenagers who have tried alcohol. It seems that about half of the parents on CC have given their minor children alcohol at home. If those kids are then asked, in a survey, “have you ever consumed an alcoholic drink?”, the answer would be yes. So much for 90%"</p>
<p>If you didn’t like that link, how about this one, which says that 74.3% of kids drink in high school. If you add the number of 18-19 year olds who start in college, you’re probably getting close to that 90% number.</p>
<p>As to the unsupported suggestion that a large percentage of these kids drink only in their homes, the only thing that I can say is that if you truly believe that, you must live on a different planet from me. Perhaps I am the one from Mars, but I don’t think so.</p>
<p>Look, I have NO problem with parents who take a strong stand against alcohol use and back that stand up with strong action. More power to you. But most of the time its just not going to work. Despite all the blah, blah, blah from public service ads and hand wringing when teenage drinking leads to a tragedy, we live in a culture where drinking–including drinking by young people–is glorified as a real fun thing to do. (See, for example, Beerfest and Hangover). Moreover, alcohol is readily available. Given that reality, most kids are going to drink. It is just real difficult to know what to do as a parent.</p>
<p>Given that my hard partier is over 21 now and my other two are at college now, at this point I’m just occasionally speaking to them about the issue and crossing my fingers.</p>
<p>^^^You misunderstood my post. I do not believe that a large percentage drink only in their homes. I suspect that many parents <em>think</em> their kids are only drinking in their homes, though.</p>
<p>The point of my post was that the numbers that are floating around around are unreliable. Like most self-reported survey “research”, they provide a poor foundation for discussion and debate.</p>
<p>“I suspect that many parents <em>think</em> their kids are only drinking in their homes.”</p>
<p>I agree.</p>
<p>There also are plenty of parents whose kids are drinking even though the parents think their kids aren’t drinking at all.</p>
<p>Whether or not you allow your kid to drink at home, they still may drink outside of the home. There is some research, however, indicating that kids are more likely to drink if they think their parents expect them to drink. That in itself indicates that parents who allow their kids to drink at home so that the kids can drink safely outside of the home are more likely to have kids who drink outside of the home than will parents who don’t try to educate their kids by allowing them to drink at home.</p>
<p>You know, I don’t think there are any easy answers here…or methods that work for every child. Bottom line, every year we send our precious “semi-adult” children to college where they are exposed to heavy drinking and, in many places, a culture that encourages binge drinking as cool and a rite of passage. Many of our kids are unprepared for this. Those that are prepared by the fact that they partied in hs…hmmm…I’m not sure that’s any better.</p>
<p>It’s really scary for parents. We, for example, did not want our son to drink in college…but based on what he said…yes…we did “expect” that he would. Any thing else would have been denial. Indeed, he does drink. This is not something we encouraged or taught…in fact our approach was quite strict in hs and he did not drink much at that stage of his life. </p>
<p>I too, am tired of parents who claim that, due to excellent parenting and education, THEIR kids don’t drink or drink very lightly. Some of them are in denial. Some of them are lucky to have kids who listen to good advice. But it doesn’t make us who have drinkers bad parents. Otherwise, we would have LOTS of bad parents out there. It’s just not that easy.</p>
<p>Interesting - I was allowed wine (about 1/2 inch or so) when adults were imbiding (very rare, btw) even as a child. I am basically a teetotaler - will have a glass of wine at a party and nurse it all evening long. With my D, it was the same thing - she was allowed a sip or two of beer and a teeny bit of wine when we had it with special meals - holidays, etc. She is basically a teetotaler as well. She even signed up for sub-free housing because she knew she would not get drunk and didn’t want to have to take care of someone else who was. My college roommate bitd, however, came from a strict no drinking household - fundamentalist. She went off the deep end drinking in college. Had to leave school. Sometimes the forbidden fruit…</p>
<p>With us it is not good parenting…It’s Asian mother guilt (or Jewish mother guilt). My kids say that whenever they do something bad(or about to do it) they always see my face flash in front of them.(probably would take F out of most fun)</p>
<p>I know D1 drinks in college. I also found out 2 years later that she unknowingly drank too much once and almost threw up. At the same time, I know it’s not something she does that often. Of course I could be completely wrong, but just judging her behavior when she is home (no late night partying, mostly just dinners and movies with friends) I don’t think it’s a habit.</p>