Its not in the least bit a stretch. What she did has nothing to do with how professionals manage the needs of patients. Its more straw man commentary.
It’s a stretch for many reasons.
.http://www.southcoasttoday.com/article/20150303/NEWS/150309851/0/SEARCH
How would you know what therapists “typically say” to patients verbalizing suicidal ideation? Do you have expertise in this area? Do you have a link which supports this assertion?
The I’m sorry I was referring to comes after the suicide.
@MaineLonghorn,
“Professionals have kept my son alive.”
Professionals have kept my son from seriously trying suicide after thinking about it. I will be forever grateful to the therapist who postponed retirement until he was sure (and my son, husband & I were sure) that my son had found the professional who could give him the care he needed.
My son will always deal with anxiety. But he’s learned that meds and therapy can keep him from that darkest of all dark places.
Unless someone is in the profession or has directly dealt with the services of a MH professional, their opinion has little basis
If it goes to trial there will be MH experts with opposing opinions. However, it may not get that far. We’ll see.
Marie, nobody is arguing that the actual conviction of this girl on charges of manslaughter is a stretch. But what you said was that she is being charged with not “preventing” the boys death. That’s not the case. The article that you linked does not support what you initially contended. It supports what we are all actively trying to discuss here: whether she will likely be convicted. Straw man is right.
Huh. Okay. That was my main point. It’s a stretch. Carry on.
Re post 121–It may be very true that the case is thin on the surface regarding the charge of involuntary manslaughter. Yes, he took his own life. She didn’t MAKE him get back in the car. I have no idea what the total charges are brought against her.
But if she had ANY knowledge of his whereabouts or contact information (and it currently looks like she did) and WITHHELD that information from people who could have potentially helped him (his parents, police, friends) then she’s culpable.in his death. She was being asked for help and refused to give help–not after the fact but seemingly DURING the incident. I’m not saying that she needed to initiate the help–but that she ACTIVELY kept others from helping.
She not only knew the state of his mind and the total scenario but also kept it secret. Maybe she couldn’t help him personally BUT… You don’t block the path of the ambulance trying to get to an accident scene–there are laws for that.
The other comment that was without merit is that the professionals aren’t even close to having all the answers re: what a suicidal patient might need or want. No one has all the answers, but there are treatment guidelines, and if anyone has their pulse on the management of suicidal ideation, its the mental health professionals.
gouf,
You make a good point. Let’s look at this event as if it were a murder. What I mean is, if Roy had been in a situation where he was going to be murdered by another person (not the girl) but the girl knew about it and convinced him to go to the location, talked him out of leaving, and prevented his family from intervening in the murder…what would the girl be charged with then? Accessory? Manslaughter? I don’t know.
EPTR–I don’t know. I haven’t watched enough crime shows.
This story is so sad because it’s a suicide by a young boy who obviously had problems but had a family who wanted to support him and wanted to help. But their efforts are blocked by a third party.
I’m sure there are a thousand questions to be answered but none of them make any difference in my mind except why wouldn’t the girl help him or allow others save his life?
Yes, that is what is so sad. From reading some of his texts, he seemed like he was an 18 year old troubled kid with low self esteem , anxiety, and plenty of teenage angst. But he probably would have come out of it with support. He was getting help from family and therapists but also relying on a possibly manipulative and dangerous girl. At his age, unfortunately the girl won out.
Why wouldn’t mom have been able to call her son without going through GF? That’s another puzzle for me.
Maybe he wasn’t picking up. Just answering the texts from the girl.
Why would she do it? I think there are several answers to that one. Attention seeking, wanted him off her back, foresaw the possibility of parlaying the whole event in her best interest (Suicide prevention fundraiser, etc college applications, etc). All of them perverse but there you have it.
<<<
“Of course there are suicides when professionals are involved.”
Right, and now a 17-year old girl is facing jail time because she failed to prevent one. It’s a stretch at best.
[QUOTE=""]
[/QUOTE]
@marie1234
I hope you reconsider your post because it makes no sense…at all.
She is not facing jail time for failing to prevent a suicide. Innocently failing to prevent a death is like:
- giving one CPR and they still die.
- driving someone to the ER and they still die
- calling 911 because someone has stopped breathing and they still die.
What this girl did is essentially come across someone whose life was in jeopardy and purposely gave him bad advice so that he would die.
Okay, people are misunderstanding my post so I will try again.
The confusion seems to be causing or failing to prevent because that is all there is and causing would be manslaughter. But, causing is a very difficult bar to reach when she is on the phone and he’d been planning it for some time which is why I went to failing to prevent which I do agree she did but is it her responsibility as a 17-year old girlfriend to do that and could she reasonably be expected to do that and how? I am not so sure. And, what if she said stop and he did it anyway. Or, what if she said get back in the car and he decided not to follow that advice. Then is she guilty of attempted murder? No, of course not.
I agree she gave him bad advice but that is not a crime, usually.
Depending on the state’s law, it seems possible that she could be charged with criminal or gross negligence.
Again. She seems to have ACTIVELY prevented others from helping him.
Discount everything else even her e-mails to get back in the car. Who knows? But save it for later scrutiny.
She was asked for his whereabouts and she didn’t say yea or nay. She seemingly hid the fact that she was in contact with him. Information that may have led to his rescue.
I’m NOT saying that it would have made a difference—but does that matter in the long run?
If someone in a car accident would have died anyway does that excuse you from PURPOSELY blocking the ambulance who was trying to come to the rescue?