Many schools don’t admit by major, in which case the student’s admission chances aren’t affected by applying for a popular major.
If the school does admit by major, and the student ultimately wants a popular major that is oversubscribed, there may be barriers making it difficult to switch into the popular major after they are admitted to a different major.
Of course, this varies by school … but as a rule of thumb, it’s generally best to apply for the major that the applicant actually wants to study.
It will also be easier for a student to put together a compelling application if they have an authentic interest in the major they are applying for.
My sense is that it is somewhat more difficult for women to be admitted to almost all highly selective colleges - especially at schools that are trying to maintain some kind of gender parity. Brown is often used as an example of this, as they get many more applications from women than men - acceptance rate (while still vanishingly small) for men was around 7% for men last year but only around 4% for women (I don’t remember the exact numbers).
UPenn (assuming you mean Arts and Sciences and not Wharton)-- no
Vanderbilt- maybe, but they are very score sensitive in my experience
Duke- probably not
Dartmouth-no
Cornell- no
Rice- no
You show up at Dartmouth as an econ major and then become a history major? Happens all the time. You tell Penn you want anthropology and end up majoring in art history? ZZZ, nothing they haven’t seen time after time. They don’t admit by major, and they aren’t looking to pick apart your kid’s application.
She should apply to her clear first choice early (if she has one) and understand that gaming the system generally doesn’t work. What if she’s locked in to a school in December but has developed a STRONG preference for somewhere else by then?
I disagree. These schools have WAY more qualified applicants than spots - they routinely reject 4.0 valedictorians with 1600 SATs. There just aren’t enough spots for all of the amazing students who apply. They are giving a preference to women because of a historical gender imbalance they are trying to correct. That does not mean they are lowing the bar for female candidates. I am certain they are evey bit as qualified and accomplished as the male students they accept - they just accept more of them. And even still, there will be many 4.0 valedictorians with 1600 SATs who don’t get admitted.
Not looking to game the system…looking to understand it. Say you have multiple good choices - would you apply ED to the one that you have the least chance of getting admitted but you love the most…or to the one where your chances of getting admitted are highest? I would say the latter.
You ED to the one you love the most (and that you can afford!). ED is binding. If you get accepted, it’s game over for all of your other applications. You are required to withdraw them. If you commit to a 2nd, 3rd, 4th choice school (because you thought your chances might be better in ED), will you regret never taking your shot with your first choice school? I would. But I guess some people might not.
I encouraged my kids to apply ED if- and only if- there would be no buyer’s remorse regardless of the decision.
Kid shoots for the moon and gets rejected- and then feels like a chump for not “using” the ED option on a “more realistic” option- then no, ED is not a fit for you. Kid applies to the more realistic option and gets in- and goes into a spiral of regret that they weren’t more ambitious in their ED application- then no, ED is not a fit for you.
Clear first choice. Above all others.
Once you get into the “gaming” of “I love this one a smidgen more but this one is a surer bet if I apply early- and sure, I love it, but actually not…” nah, I’ve seen it play out in a dozen “bad outcome” ways. Including kids who trudge off in August to a fantastic, incredible college which they got admitted to early, and they act as though they’ve been sentenced to four years in the federal penitentiary because they didn’t “take their shot” at the ACTUAL first choice.
Thanks. Specifically about Vandy - what do you mean by very score sensitive? Looking at the data sets…they dropped to only 60% of the admitted students submitting scores after going TO which only slightly raised their interquartile ranges. So it seems to me that they are now giving more weight to other, i.e. less objective, criteria.
Tippy top scores are a finger on the scale at Vandy from what I have observed. Not so at Duke. Not so at Rice. Etc.
With TO the data is murky, but I don’t think it changes the fact that there are a couple of handfuls of colleges where high scores trump everything else, assuming the GPA is solid, the rigor is there, recommendations are positive, essay doesn’t have major grammatical issues. And I think Vandy is one of those schools.
I think there is something very mysterious about acceptance at Duke. The top private schools in our city will send one to two students each year to Dartmouth, Brown, Cornell, and Penn. Not to mention WashU, Vandy, and Northwestern. But Duke - no one gets in. Eagle scouts/class leaders with an ACT 36 apply every year, and I haven’t seen anyone get accepted in the last five years unless a recruited athlete. I was about to use the term “Hail Mary” when it comes to anyone from KY getting into Duke, but that is a bad analogy for us basketball fans.
I personally think students should apply where they think they can see themselves for four years. Happy students do better than unhappy ones. If the student loves the school, to me that is the bar that needs to be met.
And again…this kid doesn’t need to ED anywhere. It could be that she doesn’t want to be locked into a decision by January.
And really, kids can change a LOT between when applications are sent and when they have to make a matriculation decision. Maybe she wants the time to really compare acceptances. And that is a good strategy.
I would say if you love two the same and would be equally happy, apply to the one that is easier in ED, otherwise only apply to a true favorite as ED. Or develop an ED1 and ED2 strategy.
D23 did not do ED because she did not have favorite–but we knew some who did who had temporary buyers remorse when it worked out. It makes no sense to ED when one is not sure.
Among the schools you highlighted as interested in, only Rice seems slightly easier given her scores, etc. Vanderbilt might be the hardest in your list for ED, as it is known to love high scores. They were the only one we toured (pre-TO) that posted their score range on the screen and were very clear that scores are important to them, and even said they were higher than some ivy league ranges(which they were). No other school did this. Whether they follow this or admit it in the TO world is unknown.
In an ideal world - I agree. In reality, most 17-year-olds have no clue where they see themselves in four years or what they want to study. I was like that as well. Really “loving a school” could be based on whether it was a nice day when they visited or whether they liked the gym.
I don’t think there is anything wrong with that. A student needs to comfortably feel that the college they plan to attend will be a great place…for the student.
Many switch majors, for example.
Your junior daughter has a while before she even needs to decide whether to ED to ANY of these colleges…or not.
And I NEVER would let a kid ED to any school they have not visited. And if they are choosing ED, I would also want them to visit their options so they have a better idea if what they are walking away from.
I hope your daughter gets to choose where she attends college. I think this is a huge important decision. Sure, parents can and should have involvement. But remember, the kid is attending college, not the parent. That’s a very hard thing to remember!
Interestingly, when we toured (it was during Covid) they did everything possible to emphasize how they were TO and how test scores didn’t matter. I obviously didn’t buy that but I assumed it at least meant less weight on tests.
Same observation here. Our public school has kids admitted to every Ivy—in fact, most top 25 schools, not to mention top LACs, and often multiple kids—each year. Naviance says we’ve not had a single Duke admission in recent history. It’s certainly possible a kid got in and didn’t report it in Naviance, but I’ve looked at most of the top schools, and Duke’s the only one with no acceptances.
That’s an insane 180. They probably just wanted the same applicant number boost that other top schools were getting with TO, and knew they had a reputation that might curtail the increased numbers. I am mostly kidding but it is an interesting shift.
Looking at their 21-22 data set where they show 93% of enrolled students submitting test scores and those scores being very high…I assume they accept more students based purely on academic merit than some of the ivies nowadays. Just my theory of course.
Rather than guessing, if possible I would judge based on her psat scores, if she took it, or a practice test at home. SAT may be trickier than ACT but allows more time per question. If she ran out of time on ACT math, consider trying SAT.