It was something in the low 1300s, she didn’t study for it. And you are right, time on the math section has always been the issue. Would be a tough sell now to push for the SAT though…kid wants to have a social life, and I don’t blame her 
There is a LOT of this type of critical reasoning that is required in everyday life. Just saying.
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Oh absolutely, just not in the way the SAT tests for it…
If your daughter is seriously interested in Econ - y’all should do a deep dive into the Econ majors at different schools (curriculums). They are usually exceptionally math heavy - especially if a student is trying to position themselves to go to grad school for Economics.
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Looking at the UPenn course requirements for Economics (not mathematical Economics which is a separate major)…doesn’t seem that math-heavy to me. Calculus 1 and 2, Statistics, Linear Algebra Keep in mind the ACT is mostly algebra and geometry and the biggest issue is time. For example, I did great in a Multivariable Calculus course but wouldn’t score very well in ACT math if I took it without proper prep.
Thanks, this is very helpful and I think we have somewhat similar perspectives. We toured Bowdoin and had mixed feelings…we feel there are cultural differences that we would not be happy with. We are planning to tour WIlliams and Amherst in the spring but I suspect the same issue would be a concern.
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I think the 33 ACT, particularly the 31 in math for an Econ major, will have a tough time at these schools especially because of what you say in the bolded part above. Assuming she has the highest rigor possible at her school, a 33 probably wouldn’t put her out of the running but she is going to need more than a sport for which she won’t be recruited at these schools to be interesting to them. Academics gets the greatest weight at these schools, but ECs, awards/honors, etc., are going to matter a lot at these schools for a kid who is coming in at or below the median expectations. Also, think about her letters of recommendations. What do you expect that they will say? Will they be generally positive or specifically glowing? The LOR will have impact for an applicant who isn’t at the top of the applicant heap academically.
If she loves her sport, why not look for schools where it would help her? A friend’s daughter (white, from northeast state) had very similar ACT scores, right down to the subject score split. These scores (33 and 36 English) weren’t good enough to pass pre-reads at some top LACs. She found a sweet spot in a level or so down LACs and was able to choose her favorite, ED, and play a sport she loves.
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My two cents, calc and stats are prerequisites for econometrics, which I would strongly recommend any econ major at Penn take, whether Penn’s econ major requires econometrics or not.
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This is very helpful, appreciate the assessment. Yes, the sport is important to her and she may be happier at a LAC where she would easily fit in because of the sport. Multiple considerations here for sure. From personal experience…the name of the school opens doors that may not be open otherwise…we all know this.
Please consider visiting schools that have higher acceptance rates. As someone upthread mentioned, it is usually easy for everyone to fall for these 3% - 8% acceptance rate schools. If she applies and is accepted, she will be thrilled, but your question shows that you understand that these are huge, huge reaches for her. Why not visit schools like Kenyon, Denison, Colgate, etc., where she has a more reasonable shot? I’m not saying that she should not try for the reachy-est schools if she wants to shoot her shot. But there is so much more value in visiting less familiar schools, ones that value demonstrated interest (most of the schools you mentioned don’t care if you visit or not). She – and you – will see that these 15% - 40% acceptance rate schools are also amazing, have beautiful facilities, bright students, and so much to offer. They are not guaranteed schools for a 33 ACT, but much more possible. Wouldn’t you rather she find that she loves some of these and is thrilled with an acceptance vs. viewing them as letdowns, in part because she never visited, if she gets into to one?
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Agree 100% and - being realistic - we will definitely apply to great schools like that. For us in the Southeast such may be LACs like W&L or Davidson
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Just fyi: Penn math is much more intense than some places. Calc1 is BC calc plus about 30% more not covered in BC. Calc 2 is multivariable calc and the syllabus covers almost double what many kids have had for DE in HS(even those who followed 4yr-college syllabi for MVC). Math is intense and fast-paced there. Not saying yours couldn’t handle it, but many “mathy” kids who sailed through BC calc with a 5 stumble.
The Econ classes are notoriously brutal: they have a lot of math and are designed to be “weed out”: there is an “Econ Scream” just for that midterm, so freshmen can cope with the the difficult prep by screaming on the quad about it I guess.
Duke Econ has a similar reputation for the intro Econ classes being math-heavy and brutal, with means of 30 out of 100 on exams. Many drop the major after the intro courses.
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they admit twice as many women, which means it’s gonna be easier to get in as a woman. The only way it wouldn’t would be is if the pool of male applicants was weak, which we know from the common data set is not true. That doesn’t mean they don’t have incredibly gifted women applying.
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Thanks, this makes sense and I could not have gauged it by simply looking at the course list. My kid is the kind that does well in math but doesn’t like it…not many of us do anyway, but if she knows she needs to do well she would put in the effort.
The question was about test scores. A higher percentage of women being admitted doesn’t tell us that the women being admitted to MIT have lower test scores, since the small group of people admitted to MIT (and probably the vast majority of MIT applicants) have test scores compressed at the top of the scale.
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Thank you! I was trying to make that - seemingly obvious - point without being offensive in any way but was somehow unsuccessful
Definitely a possible scenario, although statistically…not convincing. Would be great to have the data.
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You could ask @MITChris
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From the most recently published CDS. You can see how the test scores are compressed at the top of the scale. Common Data Set 2022-23 — MIT Institutional Research
| 25th | 50th | 75th | |
|---|---|---|---|
| SAT Composite | 1520 | 1550 | 1570 |
| SAT EBRW | 730 | 760 | 780 |
| SAT Math | 790 | 800 | 800 |
| ACT Composite | 35 | 35 | 36 |
| ACT Math | 35 | 35 | 36 |
| ACT English | 35 | 35 | 36 |
Thanks. How does that table provide a stratification by gender? Maybe you are seeing something I am not.