I may use some of these techniques with users who argue with me! 
Silver lining - mending fences with my sister. We had a falling out 2+ years ago - about our parents - and her unwillingness to be involved beyong the obligatory weekly phonecall and annual visit. I feel she should be willing to do more, but accept that she will not. Anyway, I have been talking with her more lately, gave her the rundown on the Thanksgiving fiasco and we are at least commiserating.
Her take - mom will call any day now and act like nothing happened.
I hope actually that your mom does call soon @rockvillemom. I’m sure that while the silence is nice, it’s also nerve racking.
And yes, it’s nice to have a sister to commiserate with. You’re right, it would be nice for her to help out more. But it’s also understandable why she doesn’t. Doesn’t help you though.
Good stuff, @gardenstategal
RVM–hang in there! Glad you can talk with your sister some. It’ll help sort things out for you.
The importance of connections with siblings when raised in a dysfunctional family situation reminds me of the movie Prince of Tides. No one will know and understand your childhood and upbringing - whether good or bad - like a sibling who grew up in the same family/household. Glad you’re reconnecting with your sister. Even though you’ve approached your relationship with your parents in different ways in the past, there is a lot of common ground there to build on.
RVM - regarding your sister, I’m in a similar spot to her right now. My brother and my aunt would like me to be more involved, because it would lessen their burden. Since I took most of the emotional hits before, they are now getting them in my place. However, I feel like I’ve done what I need to do for my own emotional health and they are welcome to do the same. Basically, they can remove themselves, rather than pull me back in. This may be how your sister feels.
When women remove themselves from an abusive husband or boyfriend, they are congratulated for being strong & coming to their senses. For some reason, there’s a different dynamic when it is your parents - we’re expected to be dutiful & just take it & keep showing up for more. And many of us do, until one day we just can’t anymore - we are all used up.
Very true. I think the parental dynamic is different as they provided food, shelter etc for 18 years, paid for college, etc. They feel they are now owed. But with people living so much longer…
My parents helped care for their respective fathers until their deaths (their mothers died earlier) so that sets their expectation. They both died at 85. And it did take a toll - they behaved like martyrs - visiting these two elderly men every wknd, paying their bills, food shoping, dr appts, etc. My father had 2 local siblings, so burden was split, although he was in charge. I guess they just assume that I will do the same for them.
This thread has been very helpful. This is the killer: EXPECTATIONS. Every time I feel smothered by someone else’s expectations, I lose sleep, feel guilty, try harder. But I am committed to keeping my father in his home, and so there will be compromises and hurt feelings and complaining. Please know there are lots of others pulling for you.
We discussed the Health Care Power of Attorney yesterday, and even that was full of old family dynamics. Everything is coated in history and present, if that makes any sense.
Question for you rockvillemom – when your mom calls and acts like nothing happened, will you go along with the farce or challenge her? I am not good with conflict but I think what one is supposed to do when she starts talking about Xmas or whatever is say wait – I need to tell you how I feel about what happened at Thanksgiving. Can you do that? I think you need to for your sake.
^^^^I was never able to do that, as my mom always did the same. We were so dysfunctional. I do find that I dear back when expectations are strongly vocalized. I don’t meet them can be passive aggressive, etc.
This is what my daughter did with my mom. She asked why she said particular things, what mom’s hoped-for outcome was, in a polite and non-judgmental because, occasionally, my mother would surprise us with an answer. The answer could then be dealt with, and if there was no answer, then my mother was left in front of the love of her life as having said something terrible for no reason other than to be hurtful. My mother hated that.
We had quite a bit of tension between siblings when my father had a debilitating stroke.
My sister, the oldest sibling, felt the best solution was to move my father to live with her in her home. She felt it was her duty to care for him and avoid a nursing home, if at all possible. My father did move in with her, and it was 2-3 very hard years on my sister, until he passed.
The tension arose because the other three siblings, myself included, did not feel the same strong sense of duty, and we really couldn’t understand why my sister would “do that to herself”. Our solution would have been a nursing home.
The three of us could have made an effort to help, but we all pretty much carried on with own lives, and left it all to my sister. On her part, she couldn’t bring herself to ask anyone of us, directly, for specific help. In turn, we didn’t offer.
Lots of hard feelings that simmer beneath the surface to this day.
These things are not easy!
I made the decision to cut ties with my mother over 30 years ago. That was after many years of abuse and addiction, when it became clear she wasn’t willing to help herself I had to save myself. That was what was best for me. My sister hung in there quite a bit longer but pretty much had to remove herself from the situation at some point. When I heard my mother passed away a few years ago I didn’t feel sad or happy, I felt…relieved. Now most people can’t understand that and will think that sounds terrible (they are lucky they don’t understand it), but I have no regrets. You don’t owe anyone your happiness.
I have often found that when one person steps up to help, the others do NOT step up but are glad that someone has stepped up. It can be and often is thankless to step up and have siblings carry on their own lives. When there is an emotionally abusive elder, this is especially true.
Each person may have a different relationship with the elder/parent. My oldest sib can say things to my dad that I never have or could. My younger sister also says things I haven’t and can’t.
@Classof2015 - I’m on the fence about that form of confrontation. I think it can also be helpful to just “start where you are.” So if mom calls and just talks about the weather, that’s fine, talk about the weather. I don’t think it’s necessarily a problem to avoid the topic of the blow-up and try to lay some safer ground with a fresh, drama and content-free interaction. I do draw the line at pretending it didn’t happen. So if the topic comes up, have a quick elevator speech to state your case either dispense with it … or brace for impact.
I also like the input of those who suggest trying to figure out what fears and anxieties may be driving this behavior. It doesn’t excuse it, it doesn’t make it your problem, but it may help with navigation. (Maybe you’d rather not pilot through iceberg-riddled waters, but if ya gotta, at least know where the icebergs are and maybe take a moment to point them out … though you might need to choose that moment carefully.)
Good luck @rockvillemom , and congratulations on this turning point / moment of clarity. It’s going to get better from here on – for YOU, anyway, and that’s about all you can control.
@LostTexan - I totally get it. I was relieved when my dad died. I’m sorry you didn’t have the Mom you needed.
@porcupine98 - that’s a good approach. And even if RVM did Say her peace, Mom will probably ignore her anyway.
I learned a lot from my mom when she wouldn’t, or couldn’t, make plans on how to handle her needs. It was like she was playing chicken with us. Her needs were so great having her live with any of us was not realistic. I think the real underlying issue was she wanted to be young again, she wanted her husband to still be alive. Which I got.
With my husband’s parents, who are making terrible decisions, I’m able to ask them and be non confrontational about it - we had a good conversation their last visit. I just keep asking, ideally what is your plan as you get older. If you could pick any living situation what would it be? And we actually talked about the pros and cons of things. Now of course, they haven’t done a darn thing, but it may very well be the first conversation they ever had.
Which has nothing to do with abusive parents, but learning how to speak to our elderly family members so they feel listened to has been critical.
Years ago I read the various How to Talk so Kids Will Listen books - it helped me tremendously as a parent, a daughter, and a boss.
Silence continues…
I am not looking for a confrontation. They are not going to change. I will be ridiculed for maling a “mountain out of a molehill” - they will defend father’s tantrum and blame the restaurant, etc.
My parents view every interaction as how it impacts them - no empathy for anyone else. If a family member is ill or there is some problem - my father complains for himself - this is causing him stress - he cannot have any peace, etc. No sympathy for the person with the problem - only for himself - true narcissist. When our dog died of cancer - same thing - they both commented on how upset they were - how much they had enjoyed the dog - not one word of sympathy for me. I have no illusions - this is not going to change.
So - whenever calls resume - aiming for once a week. I am not volunteering to run errands. Minimizing visits. They don’t appreciate what I do, so no point in continuing to do it. Not going to argue - just observe the weird bug - I like that strategy from a few pages back. I’ll be there in a crisis and that’s about it.
I have no idea about my relationship with my mother if father dies first. Cross that bridge when I get to it.
My mom had her first stroke a couple years before she died. She recovered reasonably well from that first stroke (maybe 80%), but was in no condition to drive. Then I heard via family grapevine that my dad was thinking of letting her drive again. Really bad idea… I talked it over with D1, and said I was worried that she would hurt someone. D1 said, “Yes, but they have no empathy for anyone else – that argument won’t make any difference to them.” Sad, but true. My SIL came up with talking to my dad about how my mom might hurt herself, and might get lost. She suggested to dad that next time they were at the local community college (a place where mom used to drive herself all the time for exercise class) that he ask my mom (as a passenger) to direct him back to their house as he drove. That was the end of any talk of her driving again; don’t know if he did it or not. But everyone (my kids, SIL, etc) knows the story – that they don’t have empathy for others.
One thing to think about is how to distance yourself when they are being embarrassing in public. I found it immensely helpful to get divorced – now when my ex behaves like a jerk in front of others and I am there (we sometimes do joint stuff with our kids or his family members that I am still close to), I find I only need to remind myself that it is not my problem, and I can just ignore it. Of course, I now know that it was NEVER my problem – but I felt some ownership when he was part of my family (maybe because “I picked him”?). Figuring out a way to separate your embarrassment from their actions can be helpful.