Thanksgiving aftermath - family feud

Parent Cafe
61

@tucsonmom …that was terrific! What a great analogy and so easy to understand. Thanks for taking the time to type that all out.

I actually got along very well with my mother until my mid 30’s, when I had my babies. I started drawing boundaries respectfully, and nervously and she just turned ugly and nasty. That was the sad turning point of our relationship and it never recovered. It ebbed and flowed, but was never the same. It makes me sad, but oh well. She can still be so hateful and I’ve heard all those things. We havent spoken in 3 years.

62

@rockvillemom

A friend of mine has difficult relatives. A few tactics she has used: choose an alternative day to celebrate major holidays so that day isn’t “ruined” by the difficult relatives. For example, they celebrate Christmas with the difficult relatives one weekend in December or January.

She also tries to deal with her difficult relatives by viewing them as she did when her toddlers were having a tantrum. Just detached enough, just attached enough, if that makes sense.

Hang in there. We don’t get to pick our parents.

63

@rockvillemom I am so sorry you are experiencing this. Hugs to you.

I really appreciate everyone on this forum. You all have given so many great, and differing ideas. It’s so helpful to hear how different people have handled their difficult family members and how that’s worked out for them.

My father is the difficult one in our family. Luckily for us, all of us kids get along and when one of us has a negative interaction with our father, we can count on the emotional support of our siblings, so that helps a lot. Another thing that has helped is that us kids have all agreed on what kinds of behavior aren’t tolerable, and we all give my father consistent messaging that saying certain things or acting certain ways won’t be tolerated or we will leave. It’s the consistency of the messaging by all the siblings that has helped the most. With regard to going out to restaurants, we are all really careful to go out to whatever restaurant my dad usually goes to: that restaurant knows my dad and knows how to interact with him. Going during a less busy time of the day has also been helpful. So, I guess our family handles this by one part mutually enforced boundaries and one part catering, all depending on the situation. I’ve also had some conversations with my dad where I tell him that I love him and empathize with him, but that he can’t have what he wants; there are many times where we discuss that times have changed and you have to conform to the changes, like it or not. As an example, our old doctor from the 1970s would spend an hour working with you to diagnose the problem, now doctors are only allowed to spend minutes with you because of insurance reimbursement rates. So it is a true shame that times have changed, but it’s not the doctor’s fault and badgering him and getting angry at him is not only mean and inappropriate, but is counter-productive and harmful. Believe me, we aren’t perfect at managing our dad, but maybe some of these thoughts might help someone.

64

We have not had any interactions with my in laws in two years now. Decades of lies and manipulations and we finally had enough. It is weird knowing they are out there and wondering what they tell their friends about why they don’t see us or their grandkids anymore. But the bottom line for us is, we wouldn’t maintain a friendship with someone that treated us this way, so why try to maintain a relationship with them?

65

I cannot take credit for the “Don’t rock the boat” analogy. I read about it on another message board somewhere and I’ve found it really helpful in explaining the dysfunctional family nonsense to people I know who have never encountered it in their own extended families.

66

What incredible wisdom, thank you. A few more details.

My one sibling lives across the country and has minimal contact with my parents. She has a mandatory call once a week (seriously - if she misses that call he will call repeatedly until she answers including threatening to call and embarrass her at work) and she visits once a year. Her last visit was in July - by the end of the 4 days, Dad was not speaking to her - I still don’t know why. That lasted a few weeks and then he resumed talking to her as if nothing had ever happened. There is no mechanism in my family for calmly discussing a disagreement or misunderstanding. So, long story short, she won’t be pitching in.

They have very few friends and are not on good terms with most family members.

I had no idea really that I grew up in an abusive home until I was an adult. I had no basis for comparison. Threats of violence, mocking and ridiculing, the silent treatment and constant threats to withhold college - I thought that was normal. My mother always made excuses - work stress, commuting stress, etc. I had no idea how to negotiate disagreements with a partner or that you could have an argument and then put it aside and eat dinner. All new to me. So the behavioral roles were set for decades and even though I now know how dysfunctional it is, I was cast as the good, obedient, respectful daughter and it is amazingly hard to break free.

I feel sorry for my parents in that they are missing out on the amazing relationships one can have with adult children. Our sons are 23 and 26 and we get along very well. I treat them as friends and we can discuss and agree to disagree on any topic. No yelling, no threats, just mutual respect.

I do think that once my father dies, I can have a somewhat better relationship with my mother. I alternate between hating her enabling behavior and the excuses she makes for him and feeling sorry for her as she takes more abuse from him than anyone else. But she can be very controlling in her own right when she is acting as his emissary.

The inheritance - out of my control. Hard to say I am willing to walk away from a very substantial amount after putting up with his crap for this long, but I do recognize I am paying a steep price.

So - now that I am armed with lots of great advice, techniques snd strategies, I guess I just wait and see what happens.

67

@tucsonmom - your boat rocking and steadying analogy was brilliant. And as I described above, if this is all you know and this is how it has always been, you think it is normal.

68

@happy1 - I am sorry you lost your father so early in life and completely understand that you would love to have more time with him. We’ve just had very different experiences.

My father and I did not speak for several months two years ago after he had a ridiculous tantrum over an innocent comment I made that he felt was disrespectful. He can find your weak spot and tease mercilessly for years, but is himself incredibly thin skinned. Anyway, my mother was trying to broker peace, and during one conversation I told her that I have zero good memories of my father. Zero. I’m not counting moments with him and my sons, I’m just talking about myself and my father together - just the two of us. Nothing. She said I was being ridiculous and we had lots of good times growing up, but that was not my experience. So again, I really do respect your position, I have heard the same from others in real life, but my life has been very different.

69

I got to witness parental dysfunction as an outsider this weekend with my SIL’s dad, who is 84 and has dementia. He lives with SIL and BIL. It’s getting really, really ugly. BIL has come to realize that he and SIL need to get into counseling to figure out how to deal with her dad. He threatens and manipulates all of them, and body shames my 13 yo niece (and yes, I confronted him on that cr*p).

I’m of the “He needs more help than you can give, don’t ruin your marriage and damage your daughter over this” thinking, though I am hardly a paragon of standing up for myself, and I told my BIL (who is a great guy with the patience of a saint) that it’s easy for me to say that, and that I know it’s harder for him.

Rockvillemom, I get that you are in between a rock and a hard place, with an uncooperative sib across the country. I think that putting your own ultimatum out to your parents about what you won’t tolerate is a good next step. Put on your own oxygen mask before helping others. And if your mom calls today, I wouldn’t answer the phone.

70

Agree. I am not taking their calls indefinitely. Thank goodness for caller ID. More than anything, I just need a break. I need to break the cycle where I do what they want and ignore the ugly just to keep the peace. I have literally always thought that this is just the way things are and this is my role and my responsibility, and it is brand new to think maybe it is not so clearly defined in concrete. Maybe I don’t have to walk on eggshells. Novel idea.

71

@rockvillemom, I had a hard time as a young adult because the same types of dysfunctional behaviors in my family meant I didn’t know other ways to act or respond. I had to learn the hard way that things I thought were normal were not acceptable in many ways, and learn new patterns and tools for things like handling conflict. My transition to adulthood could have been a lot smoother.

72

@rockvillemom Thanks for your comments. Please know that I wrote my response early on and did not grasp the extent of how badly you have been treated by your parents. I wish you well in dealing with this difficult situation.

73

" I have literally always thought that this is just the way things are and this is my role and my responsibility,"

I listened to a podcast once by a pretty famous radio personality (honestly can’t remember who only what) who said the exact same thing. He said he grew up in a totally dysfunctional family but fortunately had friends whose parents welcomed him into their homes. It was at those homes that he learned not everyone lived and behaved the way his own family did. It really made a difference in his life.

74

In my H’s uncle’s case, his wife had a breakdown before he died. I think it was her way of opting out after decades of abuse, enabling him, alcoholism, etc. There was a big row about it because the bad uncle was too cheap to put her in a proper care facility and insisted on hiring people on the cheap to care for her in their home. Eventually H’s cousin managed to get her mother into a home. It’s too bad she didn’t get a chance to have a relationship with her mother without the toxic father around. Her mother outlived her father, but was not really there for the last few years.

Be mentally prepared RVM, in case this happens to your parents. I hope it doesn’t!

75

Hard to predict. My father has used his supposed health issues as another way to control us. I grew up under the idea of “don’t upset your father because of his ulcer, migraines, heart condition” etc. Yet here he is, age 87. He has been warning of his imminent death for at least the past 5 years and uses this to further control us - who would disrespect or argue with a dying man?

So, the narrative has been he dies first, snd then it is my role to care for my mother. But who knows.

76

My friends mom is very difficult. My friend simply refuses to engage at this point. She does feel guilty but doesn’t harbor the same sort of resentment.

When her mom starts being mean or a bully, she just informs her mom she’s leaving because “I think you’re being rude, sorry it didn’t work out, perhaps next time it will be better” similar approach if they are on the phone. No lengthy discussion, no back and forth.

My friend will the just carry on and call when she feels like it or has something to let her mom know. If her mom is still salty she just says something like “mom you sound angry, I’ll call another time, have a good day”

She’s also resolved to the idea her mom will never “get it” but my friend doesn’t want to end the relationship altogether.

My friend is in a better place, her mom is still mean, but it’s not consuming my friend like it did before.

77

And perhaps that is the type of relationship we can have in the future, but for now, on a break.

I typically speak to my parents daily or at least every other day, in my role as dutiful daughter. Weird to have not spoken to them since Saturday, but no call means no drama.

78

@rockvillemom I feel your pain. My H has recently had issues with his parents. Ultimately, they will not accept certain things, think I’m the problem. Luckily H has decided we will not be talking to his parents until they stop acting like children. It has been about 6 weeks and so far so good. H usually talks to his parents during the holidays but Thanksgiving was radio silence. We will see how it goes.

Good luck, remember to take care of yourself first.

79

@rockvillemom - just want to chime in with some moral support. I am about 2 years in from “separating” from my mother after I just decided one day that I couldn’t continue to cope with her. It has been very very difficult in so many ways (guilt, worry, strained relationships with other family members) and yet I could not go back again now that my eyes have been fully opened to how destructive she is. Like you, I had to get away from my home life to understand that it was not normal & there were other, far better, ways to relate to people. I also had to overcome a certain amount of PTSD-type reactions where my body reacted with panic to my mom’s behavior even though my mind knew that I was now an adult & she had no control over me.

It’s very sad - it’s the same sort of helpless feeling you get watching someone destroy themselves with substance abuse. I cannot fix it for her, I can only keep her from taking me down with her.

80

“And this mess is so big
And so deep and so tall,
We cannot pick it up.
There is no way at all!”
― Dr. Seuss, The Cat in the Hat

I think of this when I think of my MIL and the abuse she has heaped on her family from childhood. Sometimes you have to just look after yourself and your own family, learn from the past and get on.

“.but no call means no drama”–sometimes phone calls can be “no drama” also!
When we first married my H would sit with the phone on his chest and read a book while his mom droned on.
No way to hear her at all. Literally. Only a faint muffled noise.
Every so often if it got too quiet he’d pick up the phone and say “huh? or hmm?”
Then eventually he’d say “bye” and hang up. Duty done.
Me: “What did she say?” H: “Don’t know. Don’t care.”