<p>Wonderful thread. Just want to give you my take. I read Graham’s book “Our Kind of People” when it first came out. I was very interested in what he had to say because I grew up in the 60’s and 70’s, the very era he speaks of, and had a lot of opportunities to socialize with some of the Jack and Jill people back then. Not that I wanted to, but my cousins were involved. I was so angered and incensed by the book that i penned a long letter to him. Unfortunately, I never sent it. I was a teenager during that time and I never met such an elitist, snobby bunch of people in my life. If you were not a member or part of the group they didn’t feel it necessary to interact with you. They just downright ignored you. They didn’t care where you were from, how light you were(I am fair with straight hair, studied piano and went to private school). They didn’t even have the manners to speak to you. I found them ill-bred and very condescending. Money does not buy you manners. Now the group I was around (NY) was composed of the children of famous publishers, doctors and lawyers. My aunt and uncle were members. I might have even bumped into Graham, becaue he speaks of some of the same people I was familiar with. That experience in time left a very bad taste in my mouth. I swore i would never ever aspire to be like any of those people. The ironic thing is that my ancestors are so rooted in American History. My GG grandfather was a product of a slave/native and the masters son. He amassed a great fortune, had and still have hundreds and hundreds of acres of land, stared the first AA bank in this particular state and had 4 daughters that were college educated, became teachers and taughted in the Colored Schools in the South. I am very proud of my heritage and I have greath spritual and social wealth that no money can buy. My parents raised me to be humble and giving. I hope I have instilled that in my own daughter. She aspires to be the best person she can be and embrace all people and be respectful of everyone.
As far as my cousins go, they are Doctors, musicians, engineers now. They have had their share of emotional and financial problems. One went to Spellman, one is a Link.
As far as this register, it should be called the Superficial Lot.
I have yet to see any of these people that Graham talks about help any of their more unfortunate counterparts. They don’t support many black businesses or contribute in a way that is meaningful.
I don’t mean to offend anyone in Jack and Jill. I’m sure things are different now but I would never be a part of a group that celebrates keeping certain people out based on your income and how light you are. I find it absurd and maybe rather outdated.</p>
<p>The elitism in this thread is ever present. New member Ellanchanted says:</p>
<p>“…for some time the author’s father was nothing but a Fireman!”</p>
<p>I just attended my daughters high school graduation.
Wonderful ceremony.
The school district superintendent gave a great speech- I only hope there is a copy. ( Black woman)
The principal also spoke- this class were freshmen when he started at the school, he has done a great job. ( Black man)
A school board director, also gave a speech, she has a long history with the school, not only does she represent the region, but she is an alum, & her father’s twin, had been a principal there. ( Black woman)</p>
<p>Many minorities in this area, including African Americans, have a long history & very visible in the broader community through church/education/politics.</p>
<p>While some minorities are still struggling- ( as are many Caucasian families), we also have many fine examples of achievement to look to.</p>
<p>I think that whoever you are, anything which is done purely to demonstrate that you are better, higher, or more than others is never a good thing. It’s best to achieve quietly, and stay away from things which by design make others feel badly.</p>
<p>no one can make you feel insignificant without your permission.
However, I think those who feel they need to be ostentatious or " brag", are really just showing their own insecurity.
Not to say that isn’t annoying though. :p</p>
<p>The elitism in this thread is ever present. New member Ellanchanted says:</p>
<p>“…for some time the author’s father was nothing but a Fireman!”</p>
<p>I apologize if that may have came off the wrong way but it wasn’t my intention to imply that I look down on the public service profession, but in the contexts of Larry’s “Our Kind of People” the profession is not the most desirable and seems to carry no status to him, thus his own father wouldn’t even be included in his own perception of black upper classdom which to me makes him a hypocrite to say the least and not suitable to chronicle a group of people from which he does not come from. Even in the book he tells you that he himself grew up middle class and that he didn’t come from any special family. I still say that his perspective is that of a status climbing outsider who has a lot of false information. Even when he covers the chapter of Chicago, many of the people that he concedes were the old elite, were not old at all. They were all new and weren’t even originally from Chicago. And its a shame that the false information that he was given was for the most part given from the children and grandchildren of these new families; who in their mind considered themselves old. The true old guard of Chicago went completely under the radar when the new families took over. Most of them were bitter, so many of the families passed for white, left for another city or moved out to some lily white suburb where they would for the most part cut off any associations with the Black community. You will not find any of their descendants associated with the Links, Jack and Jill, or any other high society organizations. At one point chicago literally had around a thousand families recognized as “old guard” with one hundred of them being the “very grand” families. The descendants of the very grand families still reside in the area but only around twenty of them will you find in our organizations. The other eighty don’t associate with them. So Larry wouldn’t know any of these families.</p>
<p>I understood what Ellanchanted was originally saying, and I agree with her that she wasn’t being elitist, but was describing the irony of Graham’s focusing so much on the elite when his own father wouldn’t fit into the category of people that Graham keeps writing about.</p>
<p>Made curious by this thread, I actually bought the book (for cheap through Amazon’s used book section). I skimmed chapters that were about cities that I have lived in.</p>
<p>I take back what I said before: My own nuclear family was not included in those circles, which were more exclusive than I had realized. But…members of my extended family are mentioned in the book as are some other people I know.</p>
<p>I also almost got into those circles. It was purely by accident. I was invited to join a “small social group of nice women” in one of the ciites mentioned in the book. I was too naive to realize that it was people who were in the kind of elite that the book describes. It was a group that had a small, limited membership, and all members had to be voted in. I was the second youngest member of the group, which included a woman in her early 90s. I got in due to being a college roommate of one of the daughter of one of the group’s members, and my having then a job that gave me high visibility.</p>
<p>I was in the group for several years until I moved to a new city. I was so glad to move because I no longer had the responsibility of hosting that group when my turn came around.</p>
<p>I am a person whose idea of being a host is to throw an amazingly diverse group of people together with a dessert party, and to crowd people in so they have to mingle even if they end up sitting on the floor because I run out of chair space.</p>
<p>In the group that I was voted into, however, the women entertained with antique china and silver, heck even silveware made out of gold. They got dressed up to do these things. Their houses were mansions. I kid you not. I had no idea what I was getting into. They were very nice, intelligent, well read women who shared lots of interests with me, but their idea of a fun, social group was not mine. </p>
<p>You would have thought I would have learned, but somehow, after I moved to my new city, I became a member of a similar white social group. From what I could figure out (everyone tiptoed around race), I was the first and only black group member, and also was the second youngest member. The youngest was in her mid 30s while I was in my early 50s.</p>
<p>The ladies were aged members of the establishment of my current city, a place where if your grandparents didn’t live here, you are considered an outsider. I suppose it was a very big deal that I got into that group.</p>
<p>By the end of my first year in the group, they wanted me to be vice president. I think that was partly because the older members were dying out and becoming too infirm to lead. We’d have some meetings at an exclusive retirement center. </p>
<p>Most of the members were conservative Republicans, the kind that think that homosexuality is an affront to Christianity. I am a very liberal Democrat. I think that because I’m Ivy educated, and do lots of travel abroad, am well versed in the arts, and am comfortable socializing with white people (This is something very rare where I live. The races tend to be very separate), they were delighted to invite me into their group to integrate it. </p>
<p>After a year, I bowed out as gracefully as I could. </p>
<p>Different strokes for different folks. I don’t see what the fun is about those kind of groups, which seem world constricting, not world expanding to me.</p>
<p>* to crowd people in so they have to mingle even if they end up sitting on the floor because I run out of chair space.*</p>
<p>That sounds like fun.:)</p>
<p>It’s interesting to me to hear these groups described as “olde guarde- olde money” because emphasis on placement & privilege sounds very “nouveau riche” to me.
George Jeffersonesque</p>
<p>“It’s interesting to me to hear these groups described as “olde guarde- olde money” because emphasis on placement & privilege sounds very “nouveau riche” to me. George Jeffersonesque”</p>
<p>The term old guard is used because many of these families were the blood descendants of the southern established kind (antebellum white slave holding families). These families placed high emphasis on pedigree, education, and subscribing to a very genteel way of life - meaning they stressed refinement, respectability, and graciousness especially at a time when most blacks were slaves or just getting out of slavery. Wealth wasn’t really a factor because even at that time it was rare for blacks to have an economic equality with their white counterparts due to discrimination. Many had to take positions that they were overqualified for because, say, an ivy league law student wouldn’t be hired by a white firm so they had to go and become a teacher at some HBCU.</p>
<p>This can be contrasted with the “black bourgeois” who are their nouveau riche “George Jeffersonesque”(funny) counterparts.</p>
<p>I had to resurrect this old thread because of some of the comments made.</p>
<p>I fail to see why it is more inspiring to Black people to read about people who come from difficult circumstances and make it big than to simply read about Black people who are successful, whether they were born to successful parents or not. I find it rather disheartening that there are those who have such disparaging things to say about generations of successful Black families. It isn’t a matter of emulating whites. It is a matter of having pride in our people in general. </p>
<p>Northstarmom, if you want to get technical about it, these successful Black families WOULD fall within the category of people that you feel would provide more inspiration. After all, most Blacks in these families had some “poor” ancestor who managed to overcome obstacles and create family dynasties. That is to be commended, not castigated. </p>
<p>While it is clear that Graham’s book is laden with his own insecurity, that’s not a fact he attempts to hide. He makes it poignantly clear that he struggles with this issue himself, often harboring elitist notions that deep down he knows he should not harbor. I think he should be applauded for exposing that vulnerable side. </p>
<p>Overall I enjoyed the book. When it first came out my sorority considered doing a book club on it, but figured it would be too controversial.</p>
<p>Oh and to the OP: What’s up with your username?</p>
<p>Graham has rather quietly faded into obscurity after failing to get the Black masses to vote for him in his bid for public office in New York.</p>