<p>"Hunt, there is nothing sad about not giving the person the opportunity to become the potential Picasso. But, you can take art lessons in your free time and work on it in your free time to become that Picasso. Once you become that Picasso you can give up your job. Can you become a doctor in your free time? "</p>
<p>If you don’t want to be a doctor, then what’s the point of being a doctor? I’m sorry, I completely reject the idea that a child “should” go into a certain field such as medicine just to please his or her parents. </p>
<p>And that’s quite demeaning to suggest that the humanities are something that can be just picked up in one’s spare time in between doing the real work of math and science. Given how many Asians are interested in music, I’m surprised to hear this – no one suggests that a great violin player can be made on the off-time.</p>
<p>Alumother, assuming I happen to be the Texan targeted by the comment, allow me to respond. For what it is worth, I believe that Texans have their share of disadvantaged citizens and an incredibly high level of immigrants who toil in abject poverty. Did you assume that all Texans happen to be Caucasian and well-off? Could it happen that not everyone feels the need to broadcast his or her racial heritage or minority status? </p>
<p>Frankly, I do not understand how you can reconcile your calls for “understanding” the plight of one group with your rather callous opinion of Texans. The same can be said about people understanding racism and poverty. I’d be happy to invite you to visit our neck of the woods and revise your opinion regarding disadvantaged Texans.</p>
<p>The United States is a country of immigrants who come from very diverse parts of the world. It’s obvious that your professional activities have led to develop a deeper understanding of the asian population, and perhaps a certain affinity for their culture and attitude. </p>
<p>While I fully understand you do find comments that disparage the people you care for, I don’t really see how that permits to discount the experience of others as being … incorrect or untruthful. </p>
<p>There is nothing racist about correctly identifying the particular group that does tend to be a tad more pushy. I believe that Zoosermom tried very hard to be balanced in her account of what SHE SAW.</p>
<p>There are wonderful people in EVERY race and gender, and they are people who are … a bit different. The pendulum always swings both ways. The opposite side of unacceptable racism might very well be an excessive expectation of PC!</p>
<p>I don’t want to get into the discussion of racism, but I find this appalling:</p>
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<p>I gather dosamom doesn’t know much about Picasso. He was an art prodigy–his father was a professor of fine arts who recognized his talent. He began formal training in figure drawing and painting at the age of seven. He took and passed the exam to enter the equivalent of an art college at the age of 13. </p>
<p>You really are highly unlikely to become a superstar artist if you don’t spend a lot of time working on your skills, particularly at a young age. It’s really not the sort of thing you can become during your free time in med school.</p>
<p>Hey, hey. I only said that Texans might not like jokes about Texans if there had been significant suffering on the part of Texans because they are Texans. Some of my best friends are…in truth, my college roomates are Texans. I didn’t say anything about their advantages, just about discrimination.</p>
<p>I work with “Asians” day in and day out. All I know is that I have come to understand the stories of all kinds of people, and being told that they are “a tad more pushy” and then told that that’s amusing, I promise you it’s more hurtful than you know.</p>
<p>But I’m way weaker than my colleagues. They’d just laugh this off, most likely, given that they’ve been toughened up over the years. They might even joke about it themselves. But they probably wouldn’t want you to.</p>
<p>Imagine we are going to joke about Germans for the cultural trait of punctuality. That is one thing - maybe if you are German you just get sick of it, but it doesn’t hurt. Now imagine Germans have been routinely stereotyped into certain behaviors. Imagine they were denied the right to bring their wives into this country. Imagine they have been called names over and over again, and I mean in the post-Hogan’s Heroes era. </p>
<p>If you can’t imagine this, if you can’t put yourself into someone else’s shoes, if you have never been discriminated against for a characteristic like race or gender, a characteristic you can’t control and is ASSUMED to bring with it a behavioral characteristic that in your culture was valued and in your new culture is laughed at, well then I am sure you don’t understand.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl1, no one is dissing humanities here. Also, most posters seem to assume that most Asian children are miserable. Many, many, many Asian children are actually glad of their parents’ involvement after they grow up. Why do you assume that the children who became doctors are unhappy or do not wish to become doctors in the first place? All lot of assumption is made here. Asian children are pushed into math and science. Their children hate it and they are pushed anyway. They don’t wish to be doctors/engineers. How do you people know that? Are you sampling every Asian child? Are you sampling every Asian child who grows to be an adult and are in their 30s and 40s? Are they unhappy because they became doctors? I don’t think so. As I said earlier, maybe a few but many of them are actually happy of heir parents’ influence. I find it funny that unreasonable assumptions are being made. Asian parents made into evil witches. If these assumptions are refuted then it does not sit well with the majority.</p>
<p>I am actually an English major. Yes, you can become a superstar in the arts in your free time. I know many Indian girls/boys who has become very renowned in Indian classical dance/music (takes years and years and years of practice and dedication) while studying to be doctors and engineers. Being renowned in Indian classical dance is not just a name among immigrants but competing with big names from India, people from India who are experts in the tradition. Oh, most of these girls/boys are in the sciences. Many of them are in big universities like MIT. Most of them are continuing this tradition while studying to be engineers. Check out MITs south asian dance and music organizations.</p>
<p>This is amusing. Aren’t the results plainly obvious?</p>
<p>They make more money. That’s what math/science degrees do. They allow you to make money. For the coming $8/gal gasoline money is gonna be a lot harder to come by. They made the right decision.</p>
<p>Fine arts degrees are fine when the economy is rocking, but their employment market <em>shatters</em> when the economy hits rough times.</p>
<p>What is so wrong with that? I wish I had studied the sciences. With the sciences I could have had a great career and money. I could have used the money I earned to travel and see the arts of the world. I could have had the money to buy myself art supplies (art supplies are not cheap!) and put the extra effort to become that Picasso instead of just trying to make ends meet. Btw, there are many women/men in the Indian community who have achieved fame in the arts while studying the sciences. Many of them are computer engineers by day and run a dance school in the evenings and weekends. Most of them I know are very happy and well adjusted. A lot of assumptions are made without knowing what is happening within the Asian communities. If fact, one of them went to MIT, all the while keeping up with her dance, did her Master’s in Engineering and then decided to become a dance teacher full time, which was okay with her parents.</p>
<p>Alumother, with all due respect, you persist in assuming that “others” do not understand discrimination, and that people “laugh at” a characteristic that is inherent to a race or a culture. Unless I am missing the finer point of this discussion, I happen to believe that being rude, pushy, or overly aggressive is hardly a cultural characteristic and that the behavior is simply not excusable. Again, I don’t think that those attributes are valued in any culture, at least not by the people who happen to be on the receiving end. </p>
<p>By the way, I am not surprised in the least by this all-telling statement:
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<p>So, we’ll assume that they must find being pushy and rude quite amusing or that they are entirely oblivious to the perception of their behavior by “foreigners”. </p>
<p>As you said …Oh well. I guess we’ll just “take it” silently and refrain to offend the … offenders.</p>
<p>"Of course, there are parents who go overboard. Again, this has to do with attitudes. "</p>
<p>Part of the reason for the initial post was to poke fun at myself for never having experienced people with such high expectations and who had a plan. Also, I did make clear that most of the people doing the running were laughing as hard as I was. It was funny to everyone. It was just funny.</p>
<p>“Frankly, I do not understand how you can reconcile your calls for “understanding” the plight of one group with your rather callous opinion of Texans. The same can be said about people understanding racism and poverty. I’d be happy to invite you to visit our neck of the woods and revise your opinion regarding disadvantaged Texans.”</p>
<p>The last groups that it’s ok to mock with impunity are southern whites and Italian Americans.</p>
<p>“All lot of assumption is made here. Asian children are pushed into math and science. Their children hate it and they are pushed anyway. They don’t wish to be doctors/engineers. How do you people know that?”</p>
<p>Because in some cases, they tell others that they have been pushed to change a major and/or a lifelong, inborn dream, that’s why. (And we respect them enough to assume they’re telling us the truth.) In other cases, parents tell us how they have redirected a talented artist into sciences. Did anyone say “most” Asian-Americans? or “all Asian-Americans”? I don’t think so, unless I ready too hastily. But certainly it is true for a large percentage.</p>
<p>I completely agree with jonri. It’s appalling to assume that one can instantly “become” an accomplished artist at an advanced age. It’s also very trivializing to the field itself: assuming it’s more like technical craft than evolving concepts & a life of an artist built on successive mastery.</p>
<p>Zoosermom, I found it funny too. I also find the Thanksgiving rush (done it a few times myself) funny and laughed at myself. I also find rushing past a slow going car and then having to stop at the stop light just to have the slow moving car catch up to you as funny. Done that too and laughed at myself! I am just posting because most people here are not very knowledgeable about the level of artistic involvement within Indian/asian communities. Without this knowledge, many half-true and outright false assumptions are being made about asian parents and the “misery” of their off-spring. Most Indian-American kids are very happy and well adjusted.</p>
<p>You can become an accomplished artist at an advanced age, which is the beauty of the arts. You cannot do that with the sciences. Unlike the US where dancers and musicians seem to be “retired” from the arts after a certain age, many famous artists in India are still dancing and singing well into the 70s. Many of them are still famous and very well respected, their performances are sold out shows, magazine articles written about them. In many Asian countries dance, music, and the arts is an ancient tradition. It is respected. In fact, no Indian classical dance and music show can begin without a small prayer to thank the Divine for giving us knowledge of the arts. It is considered refined. No one sees arts as a craft. It is an insult to the tradition itself because we believe, at least in India, that the arts are a divine gift and has to be worshipped. Even the instruments of the arts are treated with respect because of that. As I said, a lot of assumtions are made here without fully understanding anything about the Indian/Asian community.</p>
<p>“Most Indian-American kids are very happy and well adjusted.”</p>
<p>I was thinking that most of the kids there, including mine, were well adjusted because they weren’t happy to be spending an afternoon on line for that. It was all good you know? No great judgment on people, just a funy visual that was in a small way tied to CC. In another context, I probably wouldn’t have mentioned the Asian aspect, but since it’s so pervasive here, I found myself thinking of CC out in my real life.</p>
<p>I think that finance degrees did a little better for several years.</p>
<p>If you’re worried about the price of gasoline, just pick up a few shares of your
favorite oil company. Or refiner. Or coal company. Or natural gas company. Or driller. Maybe the finance guy would pick up on this faster than the science/engineering major.</p>
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<p>Here’s the webpage of a friend of mine that studied the arts:</p>
<p>He kind of disappered about a year ago and resurfaced recently. He told me that he has had so much business in asia in the content area that he hasn’t had time to do his market work. There’s some nice high-quality free production work on the site that makes for nice listening too.</p>