<p>I don’t think the point (in response to earlier repliers) is that you <em>can</em> study (many things) at a later age. The question is, What kind of a life do you choose to make for yourself (or have it chosen for you)? I’m not passing judgment on those who agree to postpone what their first inclination might be – and even their greatest talent. Just make no mistake about it that in many cases, the choice is in fact being made to serve a different master than the still small voice within, and that making such a choice may bring material success, yet may or may not bring personal satisfaction – depending on many other factors.</p>
<p>I have a tennis friend and he’s a software engineer but he’s really an artist at heart. A few years ago he was ready to quit. He had a resignation letter ready to go. This was the result of a reorganization and somewhat of a power-play and he’d wind up with a remote manager. I convinced him to stay because he’s an older person and the opportunities at the time for software engineers in our area were not that good. He stayed and the reorg went a lot better than he though it would and is now happy with what he is doing. But he has wonder paintings, sketches and sculptures at his home and he does go to art shows to see what other people are doing, mingle and show his own stuff.</p>
<p>I think that he would ideally like to just work on his art and play tennis. He’s got a million saved up and no debt and is a very frugal guy. I think that he enjoys the engineering too. Sometimes you really can do what makes you money and then do what you love at night or when you are older.</p>
<p>True… at a certain point, the horse doesn’t care if it wins the preakness… it’s the little ■■■■■■■ on his back that forces it to… with a riding crop.</p>
<p>I skipped reading this thread several times because I am always sensitive to “stereotype jokes”, thinking if I wasn’t there, my stereotype would be next. FWIW, I tutored a Chinese girl in math as a child ( she tought me Chinese characters and fed me treats…she also sent the police to my house , telling her parents I’d stolen their watch, but that’s another story…, ) my D tutors math, my son excels at soccer but stinks at Basketball, and his frineds say he is the whitest black kid they know ( he is the only one they know, but whatever)…I was recently informed that our family has a reputation for pushing our kids harder than their peers…My D loves musical theatre but tells US she’s going to major in Biology. I can’t think of a single streotype about blacks I’d be willing to laugh at…( unless I was ONLY among blacks…then maybe the one about rythm…)</p>
<p>Actually, this is the point I was trying to make. Modern life as it is, a career to make money ( I am not taking about being Bill Gates) is important. Many Asians just think it is sensible/practical to learn something to lead a comfortable life and then use the money to follow your passion. Heck, you need a decent job to take your child to the doctor, meaning have some kind of decent health insurance. I just get very upset with Americans who have no clue about the great tradition of the arts in many Asian countries. In many Asian countries like India, arts are scared and revered and worshiped because it is considered a God given gift to man. Without understanding this we Asians have to face judgments based on ignorance.</p>
<p>“Actually, this is the point I was trying to make. Modern life as it is, a career to make money ( I am not taking about being Bill Gates) is important. Many Asians just think it is sensible/practical to learn something to lead a comfortable life and then use the money to follow your passion.”</p>
<p>Great for them. I would rather have my child be an art history major who is happy following his passion working in an art museum even if the big bucks aren’t there, than forcing him into math or science or business so he can make a big buck. Big bucks aren’t what life is about.</p>
<p>
Isn’t this true in virtually every country in the world?
Really? Well. I find you offensive. Are you aware, that in the melting pot of America, there are loads of Americans from various ethnicities continuing the traditions of their ancestral homes? Blacks, whites, and Hispanics. And very few of those teaching the next generation could expect to make a living doing so. They work it into their busy lives. And they also take part in the common American traditions. It’s not just Asians who respect their ancient traditions and want to pass them on to the next generation. </p>
<p>The very fact that you are aparently unaware of this demonstrates a problem. It’s called acclimation. Ethnic groups who are more recent entrants to the American mix should be willing to engage in American culture, mores, and polite behavioral norms. And be open to other groups and their traditions. </p>
<p>Dosamom, there are other art forms besides your own tradition, other mind sets about what constitutes success or happiness. A one track idea of success is not the American way. I see many Asian kids forced down that track against their will, so the stereotype was not picked out of thin air.</p>
<p>“You can become an accomplished artist at an advanced age, which is the beauty of the arts.”</p>
<p>I think that it’s kind of silly for you to make this statement, and then claim that non-Asians are ignorant about Asians’ respect for the arts. I’m sorry, but your attitude clearly denigrates the choice of the arts as a career. Many careers in the arts really can’t be started at an advanced age, and obviously a talented artist who majors in science, goes to medical school, and practices medicine will never produce as much art as a person who devotes himself to the arts from an early age.
I think the real answer to this disparity is the perception of the risk of financial insecurity. Immigrants tend to see these risks as higher, and they value careers that can survive dislocation. To me, that’s the simplest explanation.</p>
<p>“your attitude clearly denigrates the choice of the arts as a career. Many careers in the arts really can’t be started at an advanced age, and obviously a talented artist who majors in science, goes to medical school, and practices medicine will never produce as much art as a person who devotes himself to the arts from an early age.”</p>
<p>Yep.</p>
<p>A LIFE of art is not a commodity – something to be ‘acquired’ later when you can ‘afford’ to spend the time. It’s interwoven with an identity, defining & evolving the person. Again, I have no problem with the idea of people having many areas of accomplishment, blossoming later in life, changing careers, etc. Some people become highly creative writers in their later years, etc. Some people begin amateur acting pursuits (and very, very occasionally professional) upon retirement. But that is not the same thing as a full life of the arts and a career of accomplishment.</p>
<p>If America is really such a melting pot and everyone should be open to all traditions, why do so few of you know about what is happening in other communities? Is being open to other cultures and other ways of thinking only true for immigrants? As far as art being not a commodity…no Asian sees art as a commodity. To even suggest that without understanding how important art is to our lives is insulting. In fact, art is a way of life to us. It is not something we have to learn in a university and then shout it out from the rooftops! There are other way of learning art, going to an university is not the only way to learn art and lead a fulfilled life practicing the arts. Keeping an open mind involves learning that there are different ways of doing things. If keeping an open mind is so important, how many of you even knew about Indian classical dances and music? how many of you bothered to learn about it or involve your children in that activity? Keeping an open mind works both ways and not just for immigrants!</p>
<p>Skipping most of the posts here… I am an Asian and I am not offended. In fact, I laugh at what the OP posted. Singaporeans call it being “kiasu” - afraid to lose out. And sometimes I myself am sick of it too. Haha. But oh well, can’t say it’s entirely bad. We’ve advanced so much in such little time thanks partly to that. :)</p>
<p>“It is not something we have to learn in a university and then shout it out from the rooftops! There are other way of learning art, going to an university is not the only way to learn art and lead a fulfilled life practicing the arts.”</p>
<p>OK, but surely you must recognize that a person who wants to pursue many careers in the arts needs an education in that field? Surely you don’t think that Indian classical dances and music is the only area of the arts that might interest an Indian student? Correct me if I’m wrong, but what you have posted suggests that you think it would be a mistake for an Indian student to go to a music conservatory for vocal performance if he could have gone into science and medicine instead. I’m suggesting that this is a risk-averse additude many non-Asians would disagree with, but some would share.</p>
<p>“Keeping an open mind involves learning that there are different ways of doing things. If keeping an open mind is so important, how many of you even knew about Indian classical dances and music? how many of you bothered to learn about it or involve your children in that activity? Keeping an open mind works both ways and not just for immigrants!”</p>
<p>My children can always learn about Indian classical dances and music later. Right now it’s more important that they study science and become doctors, even though they don’t want to be! LOL.</p>
<p>"I just get very upset with Americans who have no clue about the great tradition of the arts in many Asian countries. "</p>
<p>Well, how will we ever know about all those great traditions, if your up-and-coming artists are going to be forced to go to medical school and become doctors anyway? Which … you said there was nothing wrong with.</p>
<p>LOL at kiasu, yes, there is that ! Well, I am not kiasu and I was one of the last people to get out of the stupid immigration line in Singapore - and my friends laughed at me for days for being so slow. </p>
<p>Talking about stereotypes, I was talking to my husband and we tried to remember which one of our classmates/friends had a liberal arts major and could not even think of one. DH is an engineer and I was a business grad. DH finally remember one classmate who majored in psychology, but then he went to law school so I don’t whether that count. All our friends are in IT, engineering, medicine (14 doctors out of my HS class), pharmacy, and business. </p>
<p>BTW, my kids don’t attend ivys, my daughter is getting an arts degree and my son has learning disabilities discovered late. Sometimes when I see my Asian friends’ kids I wondered if I had failed my kids somehow, but that’s another story.</p>
<p>Our town is very diverse, and my children go to school with many Indian-Americans and Chinese-Americans, as well as students from lots of other Asian and non-Asian backgrounds. Guys, stereotypes become stereotypes because there’s a grain of truth in them. And I say this a someone who has Asian friends, and as the mother of a kid who was dubbed an “honorary Asian” in school.</p>
<p>My S was a bright student, and I can’t tell you how many times in elementary school, Chinese or Indians parents would introduce themselves to me. My first thought was always that they might want to set up a play date or something, since our kids were friends. No, that was never it. They always wanted to ask me where I sent S for tutoring or extra study in math. My answer, of course, was “nowhere”. And when I mentioned a playdate, they all told me their children went to tutoring after school and had little time. Then in high school, S began to date a lovely Chinese girl (who, btw, is still his girlfriend 3 years later.) One night we received a phone call that her mother wanted to meet me. I thought this was a good idea. But on the way to the meeting, S and I joked about what her mother would say and ask. Our jokes were based on stereotypes of what Chinese people would find important. Well, lo and behold, didn’t she ask exactly what we joked about? She wanted to know his SAT scores, GPA, how many AP classes he was taking, how many colleges he had visited and which ones, etc. We joked afterward that S could have been a serial rapist, but as long as his SAT scores were good he could date her. I did make sure to mention to son the cultural underpinnings of her concerns, and I myself kept them in mind. Both gf and mom are very nice people, but their perspectives and attitudes are different from ours. And I know from my Indian and Chinese friends that they have stereotypes about Americans too, which aren’t so flattering. One of those stereotypes is that American girls are loose. Is there truth to that? Well, in relationship to cultures where marriages are arranged and young people are chaperoned on dates, yes. They also think American students are lazy. Again, compared to Asian students, many probably are. </p>
<p>The point to remember when discussing stereotypes is that not everyone fits the stereotype. S, for example, was clearly not a lazy student, and my friend Lakshmi pushes her kids next to nothing compared to how much I push.</p>
<p>“And I know from my Indian and Chinese friends that they have stereotypes about Americans too, which aren’t so flattering.”</p>
<p>Yep, as in some of these stereotypes:</p>
<p>“why do so few of you know about what is happening in other communities?”</p>
<p>“f keeping an open mind is so important, how many of you even knew about Indian classical dances and music? how many of you bothered to learn about it or involve your children in that activity?”</p>
<p>The fact that you even ask these questions demonstrates how deep & wide your stereotyping of Americans is.</p>
<p>“art is a way of life to us.”
As it is to any true artist, which is why such a person seeking & owning such a way of life often seeks to develop it from the ground up, at the moment of passion, discovery, youth, & energy.</p>
<p>You actually sound as if you believe that Asians have a superior sense of artistry. (Not.) No culture can claim that.</p>
<p>These cultural attitudes are very strong. Some of the stereotypes we are discussing–and the truth behind them–were also true of the children of Jewish immigrants. My wife is an example. Her mother is a doctor, her grandfather was a doctor, her uncles (on both sides) were doctors, as was one of their wives, her older sister is a doctor, and her older first cousin is a doctor. When I suggested that this family history probably had something to do with her becoming a doctor, she was outraged at such a suggestion. I don’t think she was actively pushed to become a doctor as against something else she preferred, but it was obvious that in that family, becoming a doctor was highly valued. And to be honest, it did pay off for the members of the family who were doctors when they left Europe–they were able to adapt to U.S. medical practice, while those with other careers, including law, had more problems.</p>
<p>
I don’t know anyone who isn’t aware of Indian classical dance & music. It is often featured in local newspapers here in NJ and has been showcased at performing arts venues around the state.</p>
<p>Why would my children have to be involved in it for me to have an open mind?</p>
<p>“Well, lo and behold, didn’t she ask exactly what we joked about? She wanted to know his SAT scores, GPA, how many AP classes he was taking, how many colleges he had visited and which ones, etc. We joked afterward that S could have been a serial rapist, but as long as his SAT scores were good he could date her.”</p>
<p>How did you react? I can see engaging in chit-chat about which colleges he had visited, but I wouldn’t consider my children’s GPA or SAT’s to be anybody else’s business. </p>
<p>When I was getting ready to go back for an MBA, I took the GMAT’s and I had a work acquaintance constantly ask me what I had gotten on them. It was so rude! It wasn’t his business. Finally I told him “good enough to get into Kellogg” (which at the time was rated the #1 grad business school) and that shut him up.</p>