<p>
Are you serious??? The amount of ethnic culture represented throughout America is astounding. Not just represented, but celebrated. How ignorant to claim Americans don’t know what is happening in immigrant communities – we flock to these communities for food & entertainment.</p>
<p>* far as art being not a commodity…no Asian sees art as a commodity. To even suggest that without understanding how important art is to our lives is insulting. In fact, art is a way of life to us. It is not something we have to learn in a university and then shout it out from the rooftops! *</p>
<p>I think just as in Caucasian families- it really depends on the family.
A [well</a> known Asian American sculptor](<a href=“http://www.■■■■■■■■■■/photos/raisonettes/2064469093/]well”>"Fountain of Pioneers" - by George Tsutakawa | Patrick and I… | Flickr) for example was being groomed to become a businessman in Japan, but when he resisted most efforts he was sent back to USA in disgust.
So while art may be important to the culture- if it isn’t something that you support your own children spending time at- how important is it really?</p>
<p>From this family- all of his children went into the arts.
A writer, several musicians & his son who apprenticed for him is also an artist</p>
<p>“So while art may be important to the culture- if it isn’t something that you support your own children spending time at- how important is it really?”</p>
<p>Bingo. Can’t hide behind the culture. You’re either personally committed & personally supportive, as a priority, or you aren’t.</p>
<p>How did I react? Well, since I was fairly confident S’s stats were as good and in most cases better than her D’s, I just told her. I saw that as her way of wanting to be sure S was a good boy. Her main concern was that her D having a boyfriend would affect D"s grades. I commented that the couple had been dating for a few months already and I hadn’t seen any adverse academic affects yet, had she? I then suggested that we allow them to continue seeing each other on a trial basis, and if we noticed their grades slipping then we could change our minds then. I don’t think she was happy about it, but didn’t have a leg to stand on since she had made the issue an academic one.</p>
<p>PS. My D just starting dating. H and I spoke with the young man’s parents before prom, and just this morning his mother called me to thank me for some pics I had sent her. By way of contrast, we talked a little about our families, how pleased we were that D and S were friends since they’re both good kids, and we briefly discussed our concerns that each was behaving politely toward the other and within the confines of our respective parental expectations. Grades, SAT’s, and college plans were never mentioned.</p>
<p>I don’t think we should go overboard beating up on dosamom, or anybody else who strongly values certain careers over others. This is a strongly culturally ingrained attitude, and one reason it seems “wrong” to many of us is that we have a strongly ingrained American cultural attitude, which values individuality, self-fulfillment, freedom from restraint, etc. Other cultures value security, devotion to and support of family, etc., more highly. If we fail to recognize that these attitudes are genuine (on both sides), then we will ascribe bad motives that aren’t there.</p>
<p>I dont want to be perceived as “beating up”
But in general what we spend our time thinking about and doing- is who we are. and when we say we support ( for example) public service or equitable pay but never find time to volunteer or shop for the cheapest goods no mater where they were made- isn’t that a tad insincere?</p>
<p>A discussion of the melting pot vs. the cultural mosaic… I like them both.</p>
<p>Thank you Hunt. I did not post in the beginning to devalue another way of life. In fact, I did post in the beginning that it takes another generation for values to change completely. I was not upset with the original post either. In fact I found it funny. But, I find so much ignorance about the way art should be practiced. There is no one way to be involved or have an artistic vision in life. University is not the only way. If some of you who are so disdainful about ancient artistic traditions bothered to look, you will find astounding artistic expression within the immigrant communities. You people have not bothered. Btw, if you really wish to be exposed to Indian dance and music Pizzagirl you don’t have to wait until you go to the university. There are classes happening all over the country. Just ask your Indian friends if you have any, that is. There is no one way to practice or have a fulfilled life in the arts. All I was saying was, the arts is so flexible it allows for self-expression in so many different ways. However, you cannot do that with the sciences. Unfortunately, American society for some weird reason seems to think that if you are involved with the sciences then one can have no time or inclination to have artistic expression in one’s life. I was trying to say that thinking is a little myopic because there is no one way to live life. Just as there is no one way for immigrants, there is also no one way for the majority. Openess works both ways.</p>
<p>This bring back memories, lol. We are Asian and my daughter was popular in high school and she started having dates in freshman year. I didn’t like that one bit (her grades were starting to slip about that time and I thought she was too young to have boyfriends) but of course I didn’t come right out and object. I want her to only hang around people who share the same work ethic and values as us. I never did meet up with the parents of her boyfriend (non-Asian) of that time but I questioned her pretty carefully, beating around the bush. Well, I felt a bit better about the relationship when she said his older brother was attending Harvard. To me that was a reflection about work ethic and family values. </p>
<p>That boy eventually went on to Stanford and is a national merit scholar but DD is no longer going out with him, if they ever did. He just invited her out a lot for a couple of years, paying for all the formal dances. </p>
<p>I have enough trouble motivating my kids and I don’t want to have to deal with boyfriends and girlfriends who are even less motivated.</p>
<p>
[quote]
If some of you who are so disdainful about ancient artistic traditions bothered to look, you will find astounding artistic expression within the immigrant communities./quote]???Who? Who here has expressed disdain toward ancient artistic traditions?</p>
<p>And have YOU bothered to be exposed to Zydeco music or Ukranian folk dancing or Cuban salsa or Irish ceili bands? There are classes going on all over the country in every imaginable type of traditional artistic expression. I have a strong suspicion that YOU haven’t bothered.</p>
<p>I don’t have a problem with Ukranian music or any other music. I am not the one who goes around claiming that one group or other has no artistic expression just because I am ignorant about what is available in their culture. You people are one doing that. Again, it is you who is showing your ignorance and not me.</p>
<p>“If some of you who are so disdainful about ancient artistic traditions bothered to look, you will find astounding artistic expression within the immigrant communities.”</p>
<p>Did you just arrive here or something? You seem to have no clue about our multicultural avenues of artistic expression in the U.S. You are overly defensive about your own cultural expression, when no one initiated any argument over that. The earlier argument (or debate) was over the merits of choosing to forego a preferred inclination (& ability) in the arts, for the sake of supposed pragmatism, or whether it was legitimate to choose an artistic identity to coincide with entrance into college.</p>
<p>Just FYI, the U.S. is considered probably the premier country on the globe for the celebration & promotion of all cultural expressions, including artistic ones, and welcomes that both from immigrants <em>and</em> from non-immigrants wishing to explore those specialties.</p>
<p>It does not appear that the native-born Americans here are the ones who are “ignorant.”</p>
<p>I don’t remember making claims that my artistic expression is somehow superior to others. Nor do I have a problem with choosing an artistic identity when entering college. It is you guys who constantly sling mud at Asian immigrants. I have read other posts on this forum too. Every way of life has its positives and negatives. Unfortunately, all I see from posts on this forum just zones in only on the negatives. If the positives of a culture are pointed out, no one wishes to listen. The attitude seems to be, I will think what I think even if there is ample evidence to the contrary. If Asians really had a problem with another culture, they will not be so many taking violin lessons. It is you who guys who have a problem. How many of you are willing to take the effort to learn an instrument from another culture?</p>
<p>Dosamom, </p>
<p>You are REALLY distorting what people have said in this thread. Nobody said you "can’t have time or inclination to have artistic expression " in your life if you are “involved” with the sciences. Nobody said that India doesn’t have a cultural heritage. Nobody said a “university” is the only place to study arts. Nobody said anything CLOSE to what you’ve claimed in this thread. </p>
<p>What we ARE saying is that it is EXTREMELY unlikely that you will become “Picasso”–the word you chose–if you make art something you pursue in your “free” time.(The idea that you would compare a young woman who runs a classical Indian dance studio with PICASSO in terms of accomplishment is just plain silly. )There are only a few people who have been M.D.s and superstars in other fields. I think of Tenley Albright. She won an Olympic gold medal–and THEN she went to medical school and became a highly regarded surgeon. She did NOT become a surgeon first and then try to become an Olympic medal-winning skater. I know of a professional ballerina who also became a M.D.–AFTER she got too old to dance. She didn’t go to med school, do a residency, and then turn around and try to become a ballerina. That would be simply impossible–for anyone. You can’t become a professional ballerina if you try to “make it” when you are 30! (BTW, she went to college part-time while working as a ballerina. NYU runs a special college program for dancers in the company she once performed with.So maybe the sciences can be more “flexible” than you think.) </p>
<p>Are there Asian-Americans who have succeeded in artistic fields? Of course there are! But like most superstars in the arts, they FOCUSED on the field–it wasn’t a hobby. It’s the idea that you seem to have that Yo-Yo Ma could have gone to medical school, done a residency, etc., and then turned around and become …well, Yo-Yo Ma…that we are objecting to. VERY few people could ever become licensed physicians AND also become musicians at the Yo-Yo Ma level. </p>
<p>Most of us don’t have kids who have the sort of amazing talent that Yo-You Ma has. However, the Yo-Yo Mas of the world do have parents. I personally think that it would have been a great tragedy if his parents had said he had to pursue a career in medicine and THEN if he “made it” as a musician, he could quit his job as a doctor! IMHO, if they had done that, Yo-Yo Ma wouldn’t be the musician he is. It just would NOT have happened. Oh, he might have been a fine player who played in some local semi-profesional orchestra, but I’d bet a lot he would be sitting there thinking “what if?” What if he had been allowed to focus on music when he was young? </p>
<p>The fact that I really don’t think Yo-Yo Ma could have become Yo-Yo Ma if he’d been a pre-med at Harvard rather than a music major doesn’t make me “ignorant.” It doesn’t make me anti-Asian. It doesn’t mean I’m not “open to other cultures.” </p>
<p>It just means that I don’t think you can become Picasso or Yo-Yo Ma or Kristy Yamaguchi, for that matter, if you pursue those interests as hobbies.</p>
<p>
While the violin was perfected by the Italians, it originated in Central Asia.</p>
<p>“I want her to only hang around people who share the same work ethic and values as us. I never did meet up with the parents of her boyfriend (non-Asian) of that time but I questioned her pretty carefully, beating around the bush. Well, I felt a bit better about the relationship when she said his older brother was attending Harvard. To me that was a reflection about work ethic and family values.”</p>
<p>What if the brother had been smart enough for Harvard, but just happened not to get into Harvard (after all, only 8% of applicants do) and was at the state flagship university instead? Are you seriously saying that you would judge the <em>family</em> negatively because they had a son at U of Whatever instead of Harvard? Wow. </p>
<p>Also, how do you know what people’s finances are? Believe it or not, there are people of very good character and very good work ethic who don’t send their children to the very top schools. Look, I’m a top-school snob myself, but I don’t pretend that someone *not going to those schools says anything about their character or work ethic.</p>
<p>
You must not have spent much time mixing into American society if you’ve come away with that idea. There is no country in the world that offers more opportunities for artistic expression of every imaginable type.</p>
<p>“I don’t remember making claims that my artistic expression is somehow superior to others. Nor do I have a problem with choosing an artistic identity when entering college.”</p>
<p>So then why do you think it’s OK to take a kid with passion and interests in the arts and force them to study medicine under the premise that they need to make money and they can always do the arts on their free time?</p>
<p>That’s not the reasoning of someone who values the arts.</p>
<p>Pizza you are reading unintended meanings into my post. I do not judge negatively at anyone who does not go to Ivys, my kids do not attend them. It goes without saying that people of good work ethic and character do not all attend Ivys. However, I do think going to any of the elite school takes hard work and ambition. </p>
<p>How do you know what our family values are and it is not wise to choose company of similar family values ? </p>
<p>To answer your question, I do have a pretty good inkling of those people’s finances.</p>
<p>I am fine with State schools, I mentioned Harvard because it just so happened that’s what it was. She had another boy seriously interested in her in junior year that went to Berkeley but I didn’t like him at all for different reasons, because something else I know about him tell me he does not share our family values, but that is another story. </p>
<p>I am sorry my statements offended you.</p>
<p>I’m not offended at all; it’s just that people who go to Harvard could be unpleasant jerks (just like anyone can be) and I don’t really think it’s indicative of any shared values per se.</p>
<p>Look, I know someone who was a Harvard MBA, and he molested his young daughter for years. I’d hardly look at his Harvard degree and think he shares my values. That’s all. I think values are quite independent of the actual school.</p>